TheAgitator.com
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Thursday, September 18th, 2008During an Intelligence Squared debate on universal health care earlier this week, I think it’s fair to say Paul Krugman stumbled a bit:
PAUL KRUGMAN
And private insurance? That’s the thing, I— Actually, can I just —I wanted to ask a question. And—JOHN DONVAN [MODERATOR]
Please—please do—PAUL KRUGMAN
—and I wanted to ask, actually two questions, to the audience. First, how many Canadians, would Canadians in the room please raise your hands. [ONE PERSON APPLAUDS, LAUGHTER]JOHN DONVAN
We have about seven hands going up—PAUL KRUGMAN
Okay, not as many as I thought. Okay, of those of you who are not on the panel who are Canadians,, how many of you think you have a terrible health care system. [PAUSE] One, two—JOHN DONVAN
We see—almost all of the same hands going up. [LAUGHTER]PAUL KRUGMAN
Bad move on my part. [APPLAUSE]
I wonder if one could find any country for which the response wouldn’t be the same. I would certainly expect most Americans to have the same response.
Yeah, those Canadians think the system is underfunded. Remember, in Canada the national health care system is protected constitutionally.
I wonder if one could find any country for which the response wouldn’t be the same.
I saw a video of a Reason staff meeting where Matt Welch said he was very impressed with the healthcare system in France during the time he lived there.
It’s hard to argue with the thoughtful, intelligent posts of Blueskyboris.
I’m friends with a Swiss national, they seem to have a pretty good opinion of their system (at least according to him).
/anecdotal evidence
Econ 101 — when cost approaches zero, demand approaches infinity.
Socializing anything creates gross market distortions, i.e. artificially high demands and shortages.
Mencken wrote: “Democracy is the notion that the average person knows what he wants and deserves it good and hard.”
With everything else being nationalized nowadays, Paul “Establishment CSer” Krugman will get his wish. If Obama wins, he may even get Sec. of Treasury or some other high priest concession.
Say hello to 3-year waits for necessary operations.
Interesting that it’s a “bad move” and not a learning opportunity. Strategy over truth.
Just an outlier, nothing to see here.
We in Canada, hearing of people in the United States who sometimes couldn’t get health care because they couldn’t afford it, have developed a system where sometimes health care is unavailable even if you *can* afford it.
#7 Roy: Excellent point! I bet “old Beardy” (a Colbertism) was pretty salty about that one.
Full disclosure: I used to be all in favor of single-payer. I think working as a healthcare security officer at a large midwestern hospital has helped me to look at things a bit more realistically. I look at the drunks and other miscreants I deal with on a daily basis and say, “you know what, why shouldn’t this douche pay a higher co-pay than I do!” If you come to ER a couple times a month because you fall down, get your ass kicked or take a bullet, maybe you need to take a hit to your wallet once in awhile.
I don’t claim to have all the answers though. I still believe in the idea of “universal coverage.” I just don’t think we necessarily need a 100% govt. run program. We need to use a more nuanced approach and, as Cato analysts might say, subsidize people directly when necessary, instead of sweeping everyone into a huge new program. Does that make sense?
BlueSkyBoris: “Remember, in Canada the national health care system is protected constitutionally.”
Could you point out where? For starters, Canada doesn’t have a constitution. The closest thing we have, The Charter of Rights and Freedoms does not mention health care any where. Go ahead, look for yourself:
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/
As the old advice to trial attournies goes, “Never ask a witness a question you don’t already know the answer to”
Dermanus, uh, Canada absolutely does have a constiution. It’s called–suprise–the Constitution of Canada which includes the Constitution Act, 1867 and the Constitution Act, 1982. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms is a bill of rights and part of the constitution.
Here is an article from 2 years ago about the Swiss system.
http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/bus/stories/DN-swisshealth_07bus.ART0.State.Edition2.21730ee.html
I wonder how many Americans would have raised their hands if asked if their health system is terrible.
Krugman is not a scientist. He is a statist hack ideologue. Facts mean nothing to the turd.
“Does that make sense?”
No. Sit down and be quiet.
“We in Canada, hearing of people in the United States who sometimes couldn’t get health care because they couldn’t afford it,”
…don’t really know much about the American health care system.
No, being poor does not keep you from getting needed treatment in US hospitals. For example, my ex-neighbor had multiple-bypass surgery after her heart attacks, and she had no insurance or money. Yeah, she had to go through a lot of crap to get the government paperwork done to pay for it, but she still got treatment.
Heck, part of the reason most hospital stays are so expensive for “normal” people is that the hospitals and clinics add to the bill to pay for the deadbeats and homeless who show up and get treatments they could never pay for. Some paramedics around here call themselves “taxi drivers” because of the homeless who magically get better after a twenty mile ambulance ride to the hospital… that they won’t ever have to pay for.
Meanwhile, I meet quite a few Canadians who come to the US (Florida) to get treatment for ailments that the Canadian bureaucracy is either taking forever to give, or won’t give at all…