As already noted: this did not happen.

Li, your version of history is so factually incorrect that your following points can’t even be addressed.

McCain: Energy. She knows more about energy than probably anyone else in the United States of America.

I think it’s incredible that he’s able to speak English and make so very little sense.

It makes sense, even (or especially) for libertarians, to oppose the candidacy of a man who has approved of such a dishonest, inept, and power-hungry administration.

Absolutely they are (especially Biden) and that’s why (as I’ve said again and again) I’m not voting for them.

As I pointed out to Sam, Obama is a PROVEN liar. McCain, a little more slippery about it but maybe he too is a liar (perhaps even of the same scale, though I don’t think so).

If you’re saying “maybe” about McCain being a liar, then you haven’t looked into it nearly as hard as you’ve looked into Obama’s honesty, which implies a partisan reflexiveness on your part.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&feature=related

thereore I “assume” you’re not attacking Obama supporters here because you secretly prefer him, despite your protestations to the contrary.

I don’t “attack” supporters. If I “attack” anything, it’s arguments. And, like I said, since I’ve not seen anyone here make arguments to excuse Obama’s questionable actions or policies or statements, there’s nothing to attack. But I will attack arguments that Obama is worse than McCain because I don’t believe the facts bear that out. And if I was forced to choose between the two men, I’d choose Obama. There’s no need to keep that fact secret. If someone was to argue that Biden was worse than McCain, I’d be less inclined to argue against that, though I think it’s a toss-up.

And Les, a lot of those snakes are Democrats.

And damn near the rest are republicans. Why the hell anyone would want to vote for either party is beyond me. There really isn’t a lot of difference between on lying sack of shit and another. None of them have the interest of our country in mind – they are motivated first by personal gain, then by party gain – a couple may put the good of the U.S. somewhere behind the above, but if they are few enough.

And what did I say that implied worship? I am confused.

Oh well, it appears that our perception of reality has diverged to such an extent that debate is impossible. Do have a nice day!

I will note that one of the points in your rant is completely wrong.

The NRA sued the City of NO (remember it was Nagin, a Democrat, mayor of NO who gave the order) within days of their announcing the siezure of guns from law-abiding citizens. They got an immediate injunction, stopped the city, kept fighting, forced the city to admit that they had indeed confiscated guns (they had been denying that any were) and finally got the judge to order the guns returned.

Since that point pretty much shows you don’t even care about basic facts there is no point in dealing with the other foolishiness you trot out.

Continue to worship your “chosen one” Li, I think he’s toast. But if by some chance he does get elected (btw, did you see the video of Biden admitting that Hillary would have been a better choice for VP? It looks like Obama failed his first test, picking a good VP) just remember he may not turn out like you think. Be carefull what you wish for.

Indeed.

Your kind of ranting is simply not worth answering.

So, I’ll give my own spin. I am voting for Obama not because I am particularly thrilled about him, but rather because his behavior is bound to be more constrained and constitutional than McCain. Four reasons:

1)His campaign has said they would pursue criminal charges against the lawbreakers in the current admin. Thus, at least they think that the President can break the law. Further, Obama’s answers pertaining to the powers of the President are also much more constrained than the vague and open ended interpretation that McCain has given to such questions.

2)Right wing protest groups are much more effective than left wing ones. For instance, when Bush sent in his private army Blackwater to snatch guns from hurricane victims during Katrina, the NRA was silent, and then tried to (laughably and despicably) blame local Democrats for the actions of a mercenary force under FEMA contract. Obama would not be able to get away with any sort of gun confiscation, it would trigger a revolt. As we’ve seen, Republicans can get away with this sort of behavior consistently and repeatedly.

3) Racism works for the Constitution in this case. A lot of childish people will be picking apart Obama’s every action as President, and so there will be much wider alarm about unconstitutional BS than there would be under a white Republican president, “cause he’s one of us, don’t cha know?”

4) McCain has all of those warmongering, constitution shredding neocons behind him, and those people are crazy-cakes.

McCain has all but promised to give us more tyranny, why would you even think of voting for him, or that spendthrift “pray the gay away” skirt that he is hiding behind? Any so-called libertarian that would vote for McCain given the facts on the ground should surrender their political identification and put on a black armband.

“Well, that’s fine. If you’ve looked at all the times McCain has changed his positions and then lied about it, if you’ve thought about the hypocrisy and dishonesty displayed by Palin, and if you’ve considered that they both support an administration that has been demonstrably dishonest and utterly incompetent, then, hey, what can one say? Vote away!”

So, McCain/Palin are dishonest, but Obama/Biden are not? As I pointed out to Sam, Obama is a PROVEN liar. McCain, a little more slippery about it but maybe he too is a liar (perhaps even of the same scale, though I don’t think so). So, I have to judge between the 2 tickets and decide which of the 2 is the lesser of the evils.

You are right of course, I don’t have to vote FOR anyone, I don’t have to vote at all. And, because I’m in AZ, that likely wouldn’t sway the election as I imagine McCain/Paliln will carry AZ.

However, if millions of us aren’t who aren’t that happy with McCain sit out the vote, we could end up with someone who we judge is worse. Thats called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Lastly,

“That’s because I haven’t encountered anyone here attempting to defend Obama’s “.

The commentary on Radleys posts are running pretty heavily against McCain (Radley is pretty fair about his coverage, though he leans towards Obama too though recognizing that Obama will likely dissapoint in office). I haven’t seen you point out that Obama is just as bad (at least, and in my opinion much more the LIAR) as McCain, thereore I “assume” you’re not attacking Obama supporters here because you secretly prefer him, despite your protestations to the contrary.

But what I think is most funny about the commentary on these posts is that the supposed “libertarians” who respond are heavily for Obama, despite that it is obvious he is no less a fan of big government than anyone else, and clearly not concerned with any libertarian ideas other than being anti-war.

Thats why I originally referred to them as faux-libertarians.

These references to the Chosen One are funny coming from people who habitually bend over for every authority figure.

What was your point? Someone is going to be elected, I only can vote for who is on the ticket, I (and most people) don’t have any real way to guarantee the quality of the ticket.

But you don’t HAVE to vote for anyone. You certainly don’t HAVE to vote Republican or Democrat.

Don’t forget you said “so I assumed you weren’t doing so reluctantly or ashamedly.

So I guess I can assume your meanings too.

Let’s review. You said you were “happy” to vote for Palin. I assumed that meant you “weren’t doing so reluctantly or ashamedly.” How does that not make sense?

I said one shouldn’t vote for dishonest and/or incompetent candidates. You assumed I meant one should only vote for “perfect” candidates. As I explained above, that makes no sense at all.

But your larger point is taken, in that we shouldn’t assume what each other is saying because we both know what happens when we assume. ;)

Oh, and I’m not making my decision based upon my emotions, as are a GREAT MANY Obama supporters. Many of them are making the decision to vote AGAINST McCain because of their EMOTIONAL response to the Bush years as you pointed out.

That said, I hope we can agree that most voters, Democrats and Republicans, vote based on emotion; reflexively, instead of reflectively.

I, on the other hand, think about what the candidates say and do.

Well, that’s fine. If you’ve looked at all the times McCain has changed his positions and then lied about it, if you’ve thought about the hypocrisy and dishonesty displayed by Palin, and if you’ve considered that they both support an administration that has been demonstrably dishonest and utterly incompetent, then, hey, what can one say? Vote away!

I’ve noticed that you don’t “attack” Obama supporters, only those like me who offer some justification for McCain/Palin.

I think you’re probably right about that. That’s because I haven’t encountered anyone here attempting to defend Obama’s disingenuous actions or dismiss them with, “Well, what about McCain?” type arguments. Believe me, I do that enough with my friends and family.

That said, I do honestly believe that Obama is the lesser of two evils. He wants to grow government, but, unlike McCain and Palin, he doesn’t pretend otherwise. Still, like I said, I have no intention of voting for him and hardly look at him as “The Chosen.”

However, with their support of the Bush administration, McCain and Palin show a contempt for states’ rights and due process (i.e. The Constitution), not to mention a tacit approval of a war that was sold on false pretenses and executed with all the incompetency and corruption we’ve come to expect from large government projects. I understand big government types voting for Obama. I don’t understand small government types voting for McCain.

Obama (and Biden too) both voted twice, TWICE!, for the bridge to nowhere.

Obama has requested a million $’s of earmarks for every “working” day he has been a Senator (thank God he was mostly out campaigning instead) and you think Palin wants to waste money.

I notice you don’t challenge Obama’s lies.

I guess you’re another that thinks Obama is the “chosen one”, regardless of the facts.

“This is a terrible way to argue your point.”

What was your point? Someone is going to be elected, I only can vote for who is on the ticket, I (and most people) don’t have any real way to guarantee the quality of the ticket.

Don’t forget you said “so I assumed you weren’t doing so reluctantly or ashamedly.

So I guess I can assume your meanings too.

And “Maybe he is, and it’s perfectly reasonable and rational for me to point out that there’s no evidence that the Republicans are more fiscally responsible or less authoritarian than the Democrats.”

What, you think I don’t KNOW that. Nowhere in this discussion have I suggested that I view the Republicans as markedly better than their opponents, I’ve said they are the lesser of 2 evils.

Oh, and I’m not making my decision based upon my emotions, as are a GREAT MANY Obama supporters. Many of them are making the decision to vote AGAINST McCain because of their EMOTIONAL response to the Bush years as you pointed out.

I, on the other hand, think about what the candidates say and do. NOTHING about McCain/Palin affects me emotioanally enough to make me vote for them. Its my analysis of the opposing tickets that makes me vote AGAINST Obama.

I’ve noticed that you don’t “attack” Obama supporters, only those like me who offer some justification for McCain/Palin. One might suspect there is a lot more truth in

“and yet you take issue with him. odd, that. might the *real* issue be because his selection isn’t The Chosen, Anointed One?”

than you’re willing to admit.

My god, you’ve got him now! Especially compared to Palin’s desire to waste millions of taxpayers’ dollars. Good job you wildly inconsistent “libertarian.”