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	<title>Comments on: Fourth Amendment Creep</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Gretchen</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177382</link>
		<dc:creator>Gretchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177382</guid>
		<description>That was an excellent post, nathan.  You sound like the epitome of a pro-active libertarian... and the kind of person I&#039;d like to have as a neighbor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was an excellent post, nathan.  You sound like the epitome of a pro-active libertarian&#8230; and the kind of person I&#8217;d like to have as a neighbor.</p>
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		<title>By: nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177356</link>
		<dc:creator>nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:16:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177356</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There is indeed be real damage - uncared for cars often release toxic fluids into the environment, either directly onto my property if I’m down hill or indirectly through fudging up the aquifer. Extremely high grass is a breeding ground for rodents and other pests, which directly affects my property and my family’s health. I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.&lt;/i&gt;

Funny, my family had similar problems with a neighbor.  So they talked to him.  Talked nicely, actually; they asked sincerely if he was OK.  Turns out he had had back surgery, it got fouled up, and he was stuck home in high pain on disability and couldn&#039;t care for his place.  They helped him out by occasionally cutting his lawn, cleaning the place up, etc.  Not all the time, as he often is a jerk to them*, but they decided that if they wanted it resolved, they should resolve it.

They could have called the cops... but they would have made an enemy and still had neighborhood &#039;blight&#039;.

As for cars... the same neighbor complained that my dad&#039;s rusted out 42 Ford pickup was leaking fluids into the groundwater.  So they parked it on a white tarp for three months, with his help, to find out.  It didn&#039;t leak.  Problem solved.

There are greater problems than overgrown grass, leaking auto fluids, and property values.  One of them is opting to have the government come in to enforce our wants rather than resolving issues through relationships with our neighbors.  In the end, we just enslave ourselves that way.

And hey, while I&#039;m on a soapbox, I may as well make everyone mad... The usual problem with libertaran types (myself included sometimes) is that we tent to want to get the government out of it, but still act like assholes to our neighbors.  But self-government only works &lt;i&gt;well&lt;/i&gt; when we actually try to work things out nicely with each other.  It can work if we are jerks, but not well and not for very long.

* He has been a lot more of a jerk since he&#039;s been in pain from messed up back surgery.  We keep wishing he&#039;ll discover medicinal uses for certain repressed substances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There is indeed be real damage &#8211; uncared for cars often release toxic fluids into the environment, either directly onto my property if I’m down hill or indirectly through fudging up the aquifer. Extremely high grass is a breeding ground for rodents and other pests, which directly affects my property and my family’s health. I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.</i></p>
<p>Funny, my family had similar problems with a neighbor.  So they talked to him.  Talked nicely, actually; they asked sincerely if he was OK.  Turns out he had had back surgery, it got fouled up, and he was stuck home in high pain on disability and couldn&#8217;t care for his place.  They helped him out by occasionally cutting his lawn, cleaning the place up, etc.  Not all the time, as he often is a jerk to them*, but they decided that if they wanted it resolved, they should resolve it.</p>
<p>They could have called the cops&#8230; but they would have made an enemy and still had neighborhood &#8216;blight&#8217;.</p>
<p>As for cars&#8230; the same neighbor complained that my dad&#8217;s rusted out 42 Ford pickup was leaking fluids into the groundwater.  So they parked it on a white tarp for three months, with his help, to find out.  It didn&#8217;t leak.  Problem solved.</p>
<p>There are greater problems than overgrown grass, leaking auto fluids, and property values.  One of them is opting to have the government come in to enforce our wants rather than resolving issues through relationships with our neighbors.  In the end, we just enslave ourselves that way.</p>
<p>And hey, while I&#8217;m on a soapbox, I may as well make everyone mad&#8230; The usual problem with libertaran types (myself included sometimes) is that we tent to want to get the government out of it, but still act like assholes to our neighbors.  But self-government only works <i>well</i> when we actually try to work things out nicely with each other.  It can work if we are jerks, but not well and not for very long.</p>
<p>* He has been a lot more of a jerk since he&#8217;s been in pain from messed up back surgery.  We keep wishing he&#8217;ll discover medicinal uses for certain repressed substances.</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177305</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177305</guid>
		<description>#30- your logic is good, but it looks like it requires constant awareness on the citizens&#039; part to watch for new codes and regulations. Our city just passed a law requiring permits to put up dishes for satellite tv! 

we should be watching the bastards, but who has the time? these little intrusions should be difficult for them to pass- I don&#039;t think these nonsense codes would hold up if they were put out to the voters to decide. now, these codes will be enforced by the police?!! no wonder they feel code enforcement is dangerous- it&#039;s a serious encroachment on the citizens!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#30- your logic is good, but it looks like it requires constant awareness on the citizens&#8217; part to watch for new codes and regulations. Our city just passed a law requiring permits to put up dishes for satellite tv! </p>
<p>we should be watching the bastards, but who has the time? these little intrusions should be difficult for them to pass- I don&#8217;t think these nonsense codes would hold up if they were put out to the voters to decide. now, these codes will be enforced by the police?!! no wonder they feel code enforcement is dangerous- it&#8217;s a serious encroachment on the citizens!</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177272</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 15:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177272</guid>
		<description>&quot;Both complained about police walking into their backyards...Spivey cut weeds in his backyard.&quot;

Yeah, I can&#039;t believe that &quot;blight&quot; not visible from the street warrants cops checking backyards.  I can&#039;t believe that is going to fly if people stand up to this Grandstaff bozo.  Seems to me the minute they open a fence gate they are in violation of someone&#039;s rights.  All they need to do is stumble on someone&#039;s 15 year old daughter sunbathing without a top on and this guy would be toast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Both complained about police walking into their backyards&#8230;Spivey cut weeds in his backyard.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, I can&#8217;t believe that &#8220;blight&#8221; not visible from the street warrants cops checking backyards.  I can&#8217;t believe that is going to fly if people stand up to this Grandstaff bozo.  Seems to me the minute they open a fence gate they are in violation of someone&#8217;s rights.  All they need to do is stumble on someone&#8217;s 15 year old daughter sunbathing without a top on and this guy would be toast.</p>
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		<title>By: Steam McQueen</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177254</link>
		<dc:creator>Steam McQueen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177254</guid>
		<description>In places where this is occuring is it not possible to do an end-run around the snooping cops?

I have lived in places where if you call the code enforcement department first they will gladly send someone out to make sure everything is in compliance.  When they are done they leave you an official document stating the results.

So when the cops show up for their fishing trip, you politely refuse them entry and show them the document stating you have recently been inspected.

No confrontation, no yelling, no discourtesy.  You are here to check compliance? Looky here, I&#039;ve just been inspected and here are the results.  Have a nice day!

I learned a long time ago that the only way you can beat these bastards is by knowing the rules better than they do, and using those same rules against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In places where this is occuring is it not possible to do an end-run around the snooping cops?</p>
<p>I have lived in places where if you call the code enforcement department first they will gladly send someone out to make sure everything is in compliance.  When they are done they leave you an official document stating the results.</p>
<p>So when the cops show up for their fishing trip, you politely refuse them entry and show them the document stating you have recently been inspected.</p>
<p>No confrontation, no yelling, no discourtesy.  You are here to check compliance? Looky here, I&#8217;ve just been inspected and here are the results.  Have a nice day!</p>
<p>I learned a long time ago that the only way you can beat these bastards is by knowing the rules better than they do, and using those same rules against them.</p>
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		<title>By: chsw</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177250</link>
		<dc:creator>chsw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:57:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177250</guid>
		<description>#28, see #12.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#28, see #12.</p>
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		<title>By: parse</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177239</link>
		<dc:creator>parse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177239</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Officers never use strong-arm tactics and will leave if refused entrance to a home, he said.&lt;/i&gt;

Well I guess we don&#039;t have to worry then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Officers never use strong-arm tactics and will leave if refused entrance to a home, he said.</i></p>
<p>Well I guess we don&#8217;t have to worry then.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177238</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177238</guid>
		<description>The thing is, Cappy, he was probably right.  There is a context where  such a power makes sense (like order people to get out of the way when responding to a crime), but legislatures never have the sense to define what follow a lawful order means so these meatheads get to define it as &quot;do whatever I fucking say&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing is, Cappy, he was probably right.  There is a context where  such a power makes sense (like order people to get out of the way when responding to a crime), but legislatures never have the sense to define what follow a lawful order means so these meatheads get to define it as &#8220;do whatever I fucking say&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Cappy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177140</link>
		<dc:creator>Cappy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177140</guid>
		<description>I once got in a debate with an off-duty cop at a party.  Said that if he gives me an order and I don&#039;t adhere to it that he could charge me with Failure to Obey a Lawful Order.

Looked at him and said, &quot;You&#039;re not in my chain of command.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once got in a debate with an off-duty cop at a party.  Said that if he gives me an order and I don&#8217;t adhere to it that he could charge me with Failure to Obey a Lawful Order.</p>
<p>Looked at him and said, &#8220;You&#8217;re not in my chain of command.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Cappy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177139</link>
		<dc:creator>Cappy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 06:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177139</guid>
		<description>Police departments fall under a para-military definition; which means they typically have rank and file and the trappings that go along with it.  Uniforms and the like.

What they don&#039;t have is the discipline and combat knowledge of the soldier.

In other words they like to think they&#039;re Marines but they&#039;re about as knowledgeable as a child playing soldier.

Sorta like what&#039;s the difference between a ROTC and a West Pointer?  None really, cept the West Pointer thinks he knows what he&#039;s doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Police departments fall under a para-military definition; which means they typically have rank and file and the trappings that go along with it.  Uniforms and the like.</p>
<p>What they don&#8217;t have is the discipline and combat knowledge of the soldier.</p>
<p>In other words they like to think they&#8217;re Marines but they&#8217;re about as knowledgeable as a child playing soldier.</p>
<p>Sorta like what&#8217;s the difference between a ROTC and a West Pointer?  None really, cept the West Pointer thinks he knows what he&#8217;s doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177129</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177129</guid>
		<description>&quot;A “property value” is just what other people are willing to pay for your property.&quot;

The value determines your property tax, insurance, liability, etc. You&#039;re obviously well-versed in libertarian theory, but IMO you should preface your comments with something to that effect.

&quot;If you have a problem with my junk cars and goats and knee-high grass,&quot;

Don&#039;t forget about the engine and cinder blocks.

&quot;Guess what you Grandstaff you. YOU ARE A FUCKING CIVILIAN YOU ARROGANT FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT! Maybe you didn’t get the memo since you and your colleagues were sitting around in a circle masturbating to the Blackhawk! Catalog but you aren’t a member of the military. You’re a peace officer. A civilian. Just like those people you “protect and serve”.&quot;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian
I&#039;m yet to figure out how this meme, the civilian thing and the randomly going apeshit, got started.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A “property value” is just what other people are willing to pay for your property.&#8221;</p>
<p>The value determines your property tax, insurance, liability, etc. You&#8217;re obviously well-versed in libertarian theory, but IMO you should preface your comments with something to that effect.</p>
<p>&#8220;If you have a problem with my junk cars and goats and knee-high grass,&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget about the engine and cinder blocks.</p>
<p>&#8220;Guess what you Grandstaff you. YOU ARE A FUCKING CIVILIAN YOU ARROGANT FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT! Maybe you didn’t get the memo since you and your colleagues were sitting around in a circle masturbating to the Blackhawk! Catalog but you aren’t a member of the military. You’re a peace officer. A civilian. Just like those people you “protect and serve”.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian" rel="nofollow">http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian</a><br />
I&#8217;m yet to figure out how this meme, the civilian thing and the randomly going apeshit, got started.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177123</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177123</guid>
		<description>&quot;&quot;Code enforcement can be a dangerous job, especially for civilians,&quot; Grandstaff said.&quot;

Guess what you Grandstaff you.  YOU ARE A FUCKING CIVILIAN YOU ARROGANT FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT!  Maybe you didn&#039;t get the memo since you and your colleagues were sitting around in a circle masturbating to the Blackhawk! Catalog but you aren&#039;t a member of the military.  You&#039;re a peace officer.  A civilian.  Just like those people you &quot;protect and serve&quot;.  Yeah I know it&#039;s hard to tell the difference between a Peace Officer and  the Waffen SS or a Mechanized Infantry Division the these days, hell, I can&#039;t most of the time,  but you supposedly went through extensive grueling training that gave you your god-like powers and one would think that the legal designation of your job would have been covered the first day.  If you don&#039;t want to be a civilian, the Army is hiring.

Grandstaff.  If a name ever fuckin fit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8221;Code enforcement can be a dangerous job, especially for civilians,&#8221; Grandstaff said.&#8221;</p>
<p>Guess what you Grandstaff you.  YOU ARE A FUCKING CIVILIAN YOU ARROGANT FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT!  Maybe you didn&#8217;t get the memo since you and your colleagues were sitting around in a circle masturbating to the Blackhawk! Catalog but you aren&#8217;t a member of the military.  You&#8217;re a peace officer.  A civilian.  Just like those people you &#8220;protect and serve&#8221;.  Yeah I know it&#8217;s hard to tell the difference between a Peace Officer and  the Waffen SS or a Mechanized Infantry Division the these days, hell, I can&#8217;t most of the time,  but you supposedly went through extensive grueling training that gave you your god-like powers and one would think that the legal designation of your job would have been covered the first day.  If you don&#8217;t want to be a civilian, the Army is hiring.</p>
<p>Grandstaff.  If a name ever fuckin fit.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177122</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 04:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177122</guid>
		<description>#14...

That&#039;s pretty rude! But I forgive you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#14&#8230;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s pretty rude! But I forgive you.</p>
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		<title>By: JJH2</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177055</link>
		<dc:creator>JJH2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 01:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177055</guid>
		<description>A &quot;property value&quot; is just what other people are willing to pay for your property. Since you can have no legitimate right to demand that someone offer you any particular amount of money for your property, it&#039;s hard to see how you can have a legitimate positive right in your property value. Now it may be true that certain things that lower property values ALSO cause a physical invasion or disruption of your actual property - a car leaking fluid on your neighbor&#039;s property that seeps into your groundwater, for example. But that doesn&#039;t mean that every thing that lowers the price that people are willing to pay for your property comes with an actual violation of your property rights. For example, your neighbor mounting non-functioning toilets on their front yard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A &#8220;property value&#8221; is just what other people are willing to pay for your property. Since you can have no legitimate right to demand that someone offer you any particular amount of money for your property, it&#8217;s hard to see how you can have a legitimate positive right in your property value. Now it may be true that certain things that lower property values ALSO cause a physical invasion or disruption of your actual property &#8211; a car leaking fluid on your neighbor&#8217;s property that seeps into your groundwater, for example. But that doesn&#8217;t mean that every thing that lowers the price that people are willing to pay for your property comes with an actual violation of your property rights. For example, your neighbor mounting non-functioning toilets on their front yard.</p>
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		<title>By: chance</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177030</link>
		<dc:creator>chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177030</guid>
		<description>Well &lt;i&gt;somebody&lt;/i&gt;  is being a grumpy old troll tonight, and needs their nap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well <i>somebody</i>  is being a grumpy old troll tonight, and needs their nap.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177028</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177028</guid>
		<description>&quot;...it is &lt;i&gt;no&lt;/i&gt; warrant...&quot; etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;it is <i>no</i> warrant&#8230;&#8221; etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177027</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177027</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

That must be terribly regrettable, but it is warrant to involved everyone else in your problem.

I don&#039;t care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>That must be terribly regrettable, but it is warrant to involved everyone else in your problem.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t care.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177026</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177026</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;...but then say constitution and rights don’t matter.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

You should read it again.  That is not what I said.  At all.

Ladies and gentlemen, can I tell you something?

I know it drives some people nuts when I refer to others&#039; stupidity, but it really is the goddamndest thing how some people cannot handle plain English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;&#8230;but then say constitution and rights don’t matter.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>You should read it again.  That is not what I said.  At all.</p>
<p>Ladies and gentlemen, can I tell you something?</p>
<p>I know it drives some people nuts when I refer to others&#8217; stupidity, but it really is the goddamndest thing how some people cannot handle plain English.</p>
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		<title>By: chance</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177025</link>
		<dc:creator>chance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177025</guid>
		<description>&quot;Fair enough, there is no “blight right” amendment. But the 9th would suggest that it’s a natural right that I have, so long as A) it’s my property and B) it’s not causing real damage to someone else or their property. (Not liking the way it looks, and having lowered property values, are not real damage.&quot;

There is indeed be real damage - uncared for cars often release toxic fluids into the environment, either directly onto my property if I&#039;m down hill or indirectly through fudging up the aquifer.  Extremely high grass is a breeding ground for rodents and other pests, which directly affects my property and my family&#039;s health.  I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Fair enough, there is no “blight right” amendment. But the 9th would suggest that it’s a natural right that I have, so long as A) it’s my property and B) it’s not causing real damage to someone else or their property. (Not liking the way it looks, and having lowered property values, are not real damage.&#8221;</p>
<p>There is indeed be real damage &#8211; uncared for cars often release toxic fluids into the environment, either directly onto my property if I&#8217;m down hill or indirectly through fudging up the aquifer.  Extremely high grass is a breeding ground for rodents and other pests, which directly affects my property and my family&#8217;s health.  I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/09/04/fourth-amendment-creep/comment-page-1/#comment-177024</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 00:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10582#comment-177024</guid>
		<description>#13, this is precisely the problem with the naming changing from &quot;peace officer&quot; to &quot;law enforcement officer&quot;.  The former maintains peace (which code enforcement has nothing to do with), the latter enforces laws (and will respond with lethal force for any law, and get away with it by saying &quot;if you don&#039;t like the laws, then go change them, i&#039;m just doing my job&quot;).

#14, I&#039;m not sure what your position is regarding code enforcement.  You seem to be against it, but then say constitution and rights don&#039;t matter.  I say they do matter, but would add that they don&#039;t give one authority to impose their will on someone else&#039;s property that isn&#039;t causing harm to someone else&#039;s property.  Code Enforcement and HOA crap are a gross distortion of property rights, essentially claiming that the rights go to those that have the most power/$/pull to make things &quot;their way&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13, this is precisely the problem with the naming changing from &#8220;peace officer&#8221; to &#8220;law enforcement officer&#8221;.  The former maintains peace (which code enforcement has nothing to do with), the latter enforces laws (and will respond with lethal force for any law, and get away with it by saying &#8220;if you don&#8217;t like the laws, then go change them, i&#8217;m just doing my job&#8221;).</p>
<p>#14, I&#8217;m not sure what your position is regarding code enforcement.  You seem to be against it, but then say constitution and rights don&#8217;t matter.  I say they do matter, but would add that they don&#8217;t give one authority to impose their will on someone else&#8217;s property that isn&#8217;t causing harm to someone else&#8217;s property.  Code Enforcement and HOA crap are a gross distortion of property rights, essentially claiming that the rights go to those that have the most power/$/pull to make things &#8220;their way&#8221;.</p>
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