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Fourth Amendment Creep
Thursday, September 4th, 2008Texas city using police officers for code enforcement.
Thanks to Sam Wilkinson for the link.
34 Responses to “Fourth Amendment Creep”
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many of the comments to the story are F-ing scary. I’d bet a majority would approve of the military doing this.
No one in the country cares about liberty in either a practical or philosophical sense anymore.
And that sacres the F out of me.
Sad, but true. In fact, I’d say that a large number of Americans are openly hostile towards the concept of liberty. For them, liberty means yelling “USA! USA!” at sporting events, yet they think the cops should be able to do as they please.
Normally I enjoy reading the more insane comments from the gung-ho types who support no-knock raids, but after reading the first few comments, I didn’t have it in me to press the “read all comments” link.
We had the locals pull this crap in a couple of neighborhoods.
They declare the area blighted and then send around teams of cops and inspectors demanding entrance to people’s homes to look for violations. Of course the cops are just there to offer suggestions on home security. (rolls eyes) Of course any illegal activity the cop found he arrested for.
No-knock raids for un-cut grass are probably right around the corner.
They say cops “will leave if refused entrance to a home”. I wonder how long that will last. By today’s standards doesn’t refusal to cower obediently to the usually unConstitutional questions of cops constitute probable cause for a complete search of the house for drugs, guns, money, and a “possible link to terrorism” as the family is handcuffed and forced at gunpoint by grunt-lingual, crotch-scratching, storm troopers to lie face down on the floor under the snarling salivating glare huge Nazi German Shepherd killer assassin dogs as the family’s own pets are casually executed? Just curious.
Erg … shows how much I’ve become used to this. Our city has been using police for code enforcement for years now and it didn’t register with me as an issue.
(P.S. to Radley, I got a nice state-level writing award for that unnecessary no-knock raid editorial you linked to months ago. Thought you’d like to hear that such writing is getting acknowledged, though law enforcement will probably treat it as proof of liberal media bias)
I think Mr. Fuller needs to brush up on his 4th Amendment.
“I don’t think we’ve violated anybody’s rights by going on their property”.
Yes for any government official to investigate within your curtilage without a warrant is a violation of the 4th.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n4_v67/ai_20576402
The second an officer, entering under the guise of ’safety inspector’ spots an offense and arrests someone (Outside of the obvious… a violent felony being committed) is when I have a problem with this, not before. Likewise, an officer cannot use information obtained on this duty to obtain a search warrant.
Barring those abuses, this does several things:
a) It puts cops on the street, walking around and talking to people, where they belong.
b) It fights blight. Yelling LIBERTY! is cute, but you don’t have the constitutional right to park junk cars on your lawn or otherwise allow your property to be a neighborhood blight.
That said: Here’s the problem. I don’t trust the cops to abide by those rules. And I certainly don’t trust them to police their own that… don’t abide by those rules.
Individual Police Departments are like Dictatorships. When it’s a “Benevolent Dictator” all is well. But when it’s an “Abusive Dictator” It’s the all abuse of power show.We NEED better checks. balances, and oversight.
inspectors in general are to be despised… this is definitely an area that can be handled in the private sector. insurance companies and banks could require inspections of properties they have an interest in. these government inspectors are all over the place in competency, biases, and customer service. hell, the last inspector to inspect one of our rentals was willing to overlook a few of our minor violations if we upgraded to gfi’s in areas that didn’t even have water- we had to meet ‘his’ code! he even wore his badge on a chain around his neck, like a detective.
With using cops as inspectors, I could see them stumbling across some dope while inspecting someone’s wiring and a lanlord having his asset forfeited. What a nightmare this is.
Well, I guess that makes me the ultimate cutie.
you don’t have the constitutional right to park junk cars on your lawn or otherwise allow your property to be a neighborhood blight.
Fair enough, there is no “blight right” amendment. But the 9th would suggest that it’s a natural right that I have, so long as A) it’s my property and B) it’s not causing real damage to someone else or their property. (Not liking the way it looks, and having lowered property values, are not real damage. Real damage would be things like causing neighborhood-wide fires or releasing mustard gas or little things like that that actually damage people/things.) As much as I dislike blight (and I really, really do) I fear the problems that come from trying to control someone else’s property.
Trying to find crimes is exactly what they are doing. Let’s give a reason for a cop to peer into someone’s house. *shuddder*
*ahem* If you need more code enforcement, hire more inspectors, instead of paying these cats overtime.
The big nightstick is that the police can condemn a house and then enter it without a warrant. If that isn’t fox guarding the chicken coop, I don’t know what is.
chsw
I find that to be a disturbing snippet, in an article fairly full of them. It seems to highlight a trend in government to try and find ways around normal civic process. Instead of using the process set up for ensuring code enforcement (which I find generally to be a poor idea, but that’s its own topic), the government redirects the job to people who have special privileges so that they can skirt the process.
And, it is clearly a bait-and-switch on the democratic process. The cops are given the special powers they have to enter people’s homes because they need to be able to deal with real crimes. As often as we see their powers used to enforce bad laws and generally abused, they have them for a reason and that reason doesn’t apply to code inspectors. By using police to do other government jobs, the government is doing an end run around the legislative thinking that initially decided what the proper authority of an inspector ought to be. Moreover, aside from direct legal privilege that police have, the quote above makes it clear that the government is clearly counting on the extra deference that people give to those in law enforcement to grease the wheels.
Ultimately, this clever idea will undermine respect for police in a broader context. There is always a consequence to this sort of thing and the police won’t like it when people start treating them like inspectors. When I was in grad school, a cop was furious when someone thought he was part of parking enforcement and referred to him as a “ticket jockey”.
Also, what is the hourly rate for a police officer versus a normal inspector? I have to assume the cops are paid more. The next time the police chief is agitating for a higher budget, citizens have every right to demand that police aren’t being paid to do non-police duties, like code enforcement.
“…you don’t have the constitutional right to park junk cars on your lawn or otherwise allow your property to be a neighborhood blight.”
What you or the constitution says about rights doesn’t matter, fool. They’re just your opinions, and if you don’t think so, then take it up with the nearest bench-full of robe-models. If you have a problem with my junk cars and goats and knee-high grass, then drag your narrow ass over here and try to do something about it. I’ll shoot it off for you, until you hire enough goons to do your dirty-work in your place.
In a free country, no one is going to stop you from applying yourself at draining the blood of the working class for fun & profit, saving your pennies, and moving to a neighborhood where you and your friends can peek in on each others’ laundry-baskets by webcam and have coffee-klatches over approved exterior paint chips.
Aside from all that, go fuck yourself and have an ice day with my compliments.
#13, this is precisely the problem with the naming changing from “peace officer” to “law enforcement officer”. The former maintains peace (which code enforcement has nothing to do with), the latter enforces laws (and will respond with lethal force for any law, and get away with it by saying “if you don’t like the laws, then go change them, i’m just doing my job”).
#14, I’m not sure what your position is regarding code enforcement. You seem to be against it, but then say constitution and rights don’t matter. I say they do matter, but would add that they don’t give one authority to impose their will on someone else’s property that isn’t causing harm to someone else’s property. Code Enforcement and HOA crap are a gross distortion of property rights, essentially claiming that the rights go to those that have the most power/$/pull to make things “their way”.
“Fair enough, there is no “blight right” amendment. But the 9th would suggest that it’s a natural right that I have, so long as A) it’s my property and B) it’s not causing real damage to someone else or their property. (Not liking the way it looks, and having lowered property values, are not real damage.”
There is indeed be real damage – uncared for cars often release toxic fluids into the environment, either directly onto my property if I’m down hill or indirectly through fudging up the aquifer. Extremely high grass is a breeding ground for rodents and other pests, which directly affects my property and my family’s health. I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.
“…but then say constitution and rights don’t matter.”
You should read it again. That is not what I said. At all.
Ladies and gentlemen, can I tell you something?
I know it drives some people nuts when I refer to others’ stupidity, but it really is the goddamndest thing how some people cannot handle plain English.
“I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.”
That must be terribly regrettable, but it is warrant to involved everyone else in your problem.
I don’t care.
“…it is no warrant…” etc.
Well somebody is being a grumpy old troll tonight, and needs their nap.
A “property value” is just what other people are willing to pay for your property. Since you can have no legitimate right to demand that someone offer you any particular amount of money for your property, it’s hard to see how you can have a legitimate positive right in your property value. Now it may be true that certain things that lower property values ALSO cause a physical invasion or disruption of your actual property – a car leaking fluid on your neighbor’s property that seeps into your groundwater, for example. But that doesn’t mean that every thing that lowers the price that people are willing to pay for your property comes with an actual violation of your property rights. For example, your neighbor mounting non-functioning toilets on their front yard.
#14…
That’s pretty rude! But I forgive you.
“”Code enforcement can be a dangerous job, especially for civilians,” Grandstaff said.”
Guess what you Grandstaff you. YOU ARE A FUCKING CIVILIAN YOU ARROGANT FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT! Maybe you didn’t get the memo since you and your colleagues were sitting around in a circle masturbating to the Blackhawk! Catalog but you aren’t a member of the military. You’re a peace officer. A civilian. Just like those people you “protect and serve”. Yeah I know it’s hard to tell the difference between a Peace Officer and the Waffen SS or a Mechanized Infantry Division the these days, hell, I can’t most of the time, but you supposedly went through extensive grueling training that gave you your god-like powers and one would think that the legal designation of your job would have been covered the first day. If you don’t want to be a civilian, the Army is hiring.
Grandstaff. If a name ever fuckin fit.
“A “property value” is just what other people are willing to pay for your property.”
The value determines your property tax, insurance, liability, etc. You’re obviously well-versed in libertarian theory, but IMO you should preface your comments with something to that effect.
“If you have a problem with my junk cars and goats and knee-high grass,”
Don’t forget about the engine and cinder blocks.
“Guess what you Grandstaff you. YOU ARE A FUCKING CIVILIAN YOU ARROGANT FASCIST PIECE OF SHIT! Maybe you didn’t get the memo since you and your colleagues were sitting around in a circle masturbating to the Blackhawk! Catalog but you aren’t a member of the military. You’re a peace officer. A civilian. Just like those people you “protect and serve”.”
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian
I’m yet to figure out how this meme, the civilian thing and the randomly going apeshit, got started.
Police departments fall under a para-military definition; which means they typically have rank and file and the trappings that go along with it. Uniforms and the like.
What they don’t have is the discipline and combat knowledge of the soldier.
In other words they like to think they’re Marines but they’re about as knowledgeable as a child playing soldier.
Sorta like what’s the difference between a ROTC and a West Pointer? None really, cept the West Pointer thinks he knows what he’s doing.
I once got in a debate with an off-duty cop at a party. Said that if he gives me an order and I don’t adhere to it that he could charge me with Failure to Obey a Lawful Order.
Looked at him and said, “You’re not in my chain of command.”
The thing is, Cappy, he was probably right. There is a context where such a power makes sense (like order people to get out of the way when responding to a crime), but legislatures never have the sense to define what follow a lawful order means so these meatheads get to define it as “do whatever I fucking say”.
Officers never use strong-arm tactics and will leave if refused entrance to a home, he said.
Well I guess we don’t have to worry then.
#28, see #12.
In places where this is occuring is it not possible to do an end-run around the snooping cops?
I have lived in places where if you call the code enforcement department first they will gladly send someone out to make sure everything is in compliance. When they are done they leave you an official document stating the results.
So when the cops show up for their fishing trip, you politely refuse them entry and show them the document stating you have recently been inspected.
No confrontation, no yelling, no discourtesy. You are here to check compliance? Looky here, I’ve just been inspected and here are the results. Have a nice day!
I learned a long time ago that the only way you can beat these bastards is by knowing the rules better than they do, and using those same rules against them.
“Both complained about police walking into their backyards…Spivey cut weeds in his backyard.”
Yeah, I can’t believe that “blight” not visible from the street warrants cops checking backyards. I can’t believe that is going to fly if people stand up to this Grandstaff bozo. Seems to me the minute they open a fence gate they are in violation of someone’s rights. All they need to do is stumble on someone’s 15 year old daughter sunbathing without a top on and this guy would be toast.
#30- your logic is good, but it looks like it requires constant awareness on the citizens’ part to watch for new codes and regulations. Our city just passed a law requiring permits to put up dishes for satellite tv!
we should be watching the bastards, but who has the time? these little intrusions should be difficult for them to pass- I don’t think these nonsense codes would hold up if they were put out to the voters to decide. now, these codes will be enforced by the police?!! no wonder they feel code enforcement is dangerous- it’s a serious encroachment on the citizens!
There is indeed be real damage – uncared for cars often release toxic fluids into the environment, either directly onto my property if I’m down hill or indirectly through fudging up the aquifer. Extremely high grass is a breeding ground for rodents and other pests, which directly affects my property and my family’s health. I know this because my family had this exact problem with a neighbor for years with a neighbors property.
Funny, my family had similar problems with a neighbor. So they talked to him. Talked nicely, actually; they asked sincerely if he was OK. Turns out he had had back surgery, it got fouled up, and he was stuck home in high pain on disability and couldn’t care for his place. They helped him out by occasionally cutting his lawn, cleaning the place up, etc. Not all the time, as he often is a jerk to them*, but they decided that if they wanted it resolved, they should resolve it.
They could have called the cops… but they would have made an enemy and still had neighborhood ‘blight’.
As for cars… the same neighbor complained that my dad’s rusted out 42 Ford pickup was leaking fluids into the groundwater. So they parked it on a white tarp for three months, with his help, to find out. It didn’t leak. Problem solved.
There are greater problems than overgrown grass, leaking auto fluids, and property values. One of them is opting to have the government come in to enforce our wants rather than resolving issues through relationships with our neighbors. In the end, we just enslave ourselves that way.
And hey, while I’m on a soapbox, I may as well make everyone mad… The usual problem with libertaran types (myself included sometimes) is that we tent to want to get the government out of it, but still act like assholes to our neighbors. But self-government only works well when we actually try to work things out nicely with each other. It can work if we are jerks, but not well and not for very long.
* He has been a lot more of a jerk since he’s been in pain from messed up back surgery. We keep wishing he’ll discover medicinal uses for certain repressed substances.
That was an excellent post, nathan. You sound like the epitome of a pro-active libertarian… and the kind of person I’d like to have as a neighbor.