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	<title>Comments on: American idealism</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: The Agitator &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A crestfallen dude</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169791</link>
		<dc:creator>The Agitator &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A crestfallen dude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169791</guid>
		<description>[...] More temperance. This section follows after this one&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] More temperance. This section follows after this one&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169693</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 00:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169693</guid>
		<description>Yes, happy Friday ... I learned already not to get into internet discussions about Evolution/Creation :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, happy Friday &#8230; I learned already not to get into internet discussions about Evolution/Creation :)</p>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169676</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169676</guid>
		<description>A reading:

&quot;Only one thing is certain: dictatorship cannot take hold in America today.  This country, as yet, cannot be ruled -- but it can explode.  It can blow up into the helpless rage and blind violence of a civil war.  It cannot be cowed into submission, passivity, malevolence, resignation.  It cannot be &#039;pushed around.&#039;  Defiance, not obedience, is the American&#039;s answer to overbearing authority.  The nation that ran an underground railroad to help human beings escape from slavery, or began drinking &lt;i&gt;on principle&lt;/i&gt; in the face of Prohibition, will not say &#039;Yes, sir&#039; to the enforcers of ration coupons and cereal prices.  Not yet.&quot;

Ayn Rand wrote that in 1971.  (excerpted from &lt;i&gt;&quot;Don&#039;t Let It Go&quot;&lt;/i&gt; -- chapter 18, &lt;i&gt;&quot;Philosophy: Who Needs It&quot;&lt;/i&gt;)

Read that second sentence again.

I&#039;m convinced that her first stated condition is no longer true, but the second one still is, now, for the reasons stated in the rest of the paragraph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A reading:</p>
<p>&#8220;Only one thing is certain: dictatorship cannot take hold in America today.  This country, as yet, cannot be ruled &#8212; but it can explode.  It can blow up into the helpless rage and blind violence of a civil war.  It cannot be cowed into submission, passivity, malevolence, resignation.  It cannot be &#8216;pushed around.&#8217;  Defiance, not obedience, is the American&#8217;s answer to overbearing authority.  The nation that ran an underground railroad to help human beings escape from slavery, or began drinking <i>on principle</i> in the face of Prohibition, will not say &#8216;Yes, sir&#8217; to the enforcers of ration coupons and cereal prices.  Not yet.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ayn Rand wrote that in 1971.  (excerpted from <i>&#8220;Don&#8217;t Let It Go&#8221;</i> &#8212; chapter 18, <i>&#8220;Philosophy: Who Needs It&#8221;</i>)</p>
<p>Read that second sentence again.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m convinced that her first stated condition is no longer true, but the second one still is, now, for the reasons stated in the rest of the paragraph.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169666</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169666</guid>
		<description>[...] 15, 2008 in Uncategorized by Jeff Fulcher    Over at the Agitator, Ryan Grim is taking a really interesting look at the early temperance movement. Grim points out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 15, 2008 in Uncategorized by Jeff Fulcher    Over at the Agitator, Ryan Grim is taking a really interesting look at the early temperance movement. Grim points out [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I blame the marketting&#8230; &#171;</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169664</link>
		<dc:creator>I blame the marketting&#8230; &#171;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169664</guid>
		<description>[...] 15, 2008 in Uncategorized by Jeff Fulcher    Over at the Agitator, Ryan Grim is taking a really interesting look at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 15, 2008 in Uncategorized by Jeff Fulcher    Over at the Agitator, Ryan Grim is taking a really interesting look at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Danno49</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169663</link>
		<dc:creator>Danno49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:45:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169663</guid>
		<description>James,

Naw, I didn&#039;t think you were saying anything against the Jews, good sir.  

I hear you on the issue with the atheist libertarians and Christianity.  In my opinion, the whole simplified maxim of live and let live regarding libertarianism is akin to the Golden Rule, a fine way of going about your business no matter what tree you sit under.

I often have arguments with my father (and other Christians who are important to me) about the finer points and he says there is no way I can be Catholic and a libertarian as well.  To me, it&#039;s quite simple:  if one takes away the ability to do what is considered sinful, then there is no freewill to be exercised and then you have no choice but to be good or suffer the consequences.  There is no choice to make when morality is legislated.  I have always been skeptical of the idea of God not wanting us to be robot and choosing the path for ourselves.  When there is one path laid out before you, what are you but a robot?  He rolls his eyes at me when I say legalize them all (vices), half the people indulge in what is considered sinful behavior because they are told not to.  The natural rebel in us all then takes over.  I guess I&#039;m the only one who understands what I think and talk about most of the time but then again, I am also the guy who thinks that evolution and creationism aren&#039;t mutually exclusive so what does that say about me?  You should hear the discussions I&#039;ve had about that.

Anyway, I think being a true Christian is all about living by and through example (not that I would be one for folks to emulate, that is for sure) and &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; making an example of those we think don’t adhere to principles of morality set forth in the guidelines of our belief system.  This can be applied religiously across the board.  It’s a great big world out there with many paths to heaven.  One just needs to choose one and stay on it as best they can and hope for the best.

And now that I have sufficiently confounded you and others who may have decided to read my drivel, I will retire for the weekend and bid you a happy Friday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>Naw, I didn&#8217;t think you were saying anything against the Jews, good sir.  </p>
<p>I hear you on the issue with the atheist libertarians and Christianity.  In my opinion, the whole simplified maxim of live and let live regarding libertarianism is akin to the Golden Rule, a fine way of going about your business no matter what tree you sit under.</p>
<p>I often have arguments with my father (and other Christians who are important to me) about the finer points and he says there is no way I can be Catholic and a libertarian as well.  To me, it&#8217;s quite simple:  if one takes away the ability to do what is considered sinful, then there is no freewill to be exercised and then you have no choice but to be good or suffer the consequences.  There is no choice to make when morality is legislated.  I have always been skeptical of the idea of God not wanting us to be robot and choosing the path for ourselves.  When there is one path laid out before you, what are you but a robot?  He rolls his eyes at me when I say legalize them all (vices), half the people indulge in what is considered sinful behavior because they are told not to.  The natural rebel in us all then takes over.  I guess I&#8217;m the only one who understands what I think and talk about most of the time but then again, I am also the guy who thinks that evolution and creationism aren&#8217;t mutually exclusive so what does that say about me?  You should hear the discussions I&#8217;ve had about that.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think being a true Christian is all about living by and through example (not that I would be one for folks to emulate, that is for sure) and <b>not</b> making an example of those we think don’t adhere to principles of morality set forth in the guidelines of our belief system.  This can be applied religiously across the board.  It’s a great big world out there with many paths to heaven.  One just needs to choose one and stay on it as best they can and hope for the best.</p>
<p>And now that I have sufficiently confounded you and others who may have decided to read my drivel, I will retire for the weekend and bid you a happy Friday.</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169659</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169659</guid>
		<description>Correct Danno49, I didn&#039;t mean to imply I was against Jews or anything crazy like that.  I just meant what you said much more clearly.  They are still the original &#039;Children of God&#039;.

Also, the only issue with libertarians and Christians is that there seems to be quite a few atheist libertarians so you can see why they might not &#039;mingle&#039; so well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct Danno49, I didn&#8217;t mean to imply I was against Jews or anything crazy like that.  I just meant what you said much more clearly.  They are still the original &#8216;Children of God&#8217;.</p>
<p>Also, the only issue with libertarians and Christians is that there seems to be quite a few atheist libertarians so you can see why they might not &#8216;mingle&#8217; so well.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Creed</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169658</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Creed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169658</guid>
		<description>Great stuff, the temperance movement has always been a topic that interested me and your posts have been fantastic.  Keep it up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff, the temperance movement has always been a topic that interested me and your posts have been fantastic.  Keep it up!</p>
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		<title>By: Danno49</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169639</link>
		<dc:creator>Danno49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169639</guid>
		<description>Correction:

Christians are &lt;b&gt;supposed to be &lt;/b&gt;completed Jews.

My bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction:</p>
<p>Christians are <b>supposed to be </b>completed Jews.</p>
<p>My bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Danno49</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169636</link>
		<dc:creator>Danno49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169636</guid>
		<description>Well said, James.  Of course, Christians are completed Jews.  The New Covenant dispenses with a good portion of the old ways, just like the Old Testament says it would.  It makes you wonder why they (they being the Christians who haven&#039;t a clue) kept the fire and brimstone and left out the forgiveness and mercy.  It sickens me at times to know that it is such a simple philosophy at it&#039;s core and yet so few truly understand it.  Kind of like libertarianism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, James.  Of course, Christians are completed Jews.  The New Covenant dispenses with a good portion of the old ways, just like the Old Testament says it would.  It makes you wonder why they (they being the Christians who haven&#8217;t a clue) kept the fire and brimstone and left out the forgiveness and mercy.  It sickens me at times to know that it is such a simple philosophy at it&#8217;s core and yet so few truly understand it.  Kind of like libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: nemo</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169598</link>
		<dc:creator>nemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169598</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Although Democrats are the ones usually tagged as being “soft on drugs” today, throughout American history, movements against drugs and alcohol have generally come from the left, justified for reasons of common good, public health, and religion.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

A point that I have striven to make clear on various &#039;leftist&#039; blogs...and received pointed &#039;radio silence&#039; about...or been castigated for. 

They become especially incensed when you point out that this occurred during the so-called &lt;i&gt;&#039;Progressive Era&#039;&lt;/i&gt;. And that their inaction on examining the laws, divining their inherent racism, and then failing to see how those laws are causing enormous damage to their political base via voter disenfranchisement courtesy of drug law violations (which did not exist prior to the &#039;Progressive Era&#039;). And by failing to do so and act upon that, it&#039;s partly why future national elections can be expected to be fiercely contested issues instead of exercises in ennui.  

But...they don&#039; wanna hear it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;Although Democrats are the ones usually tagged as being “soft on drugs” today, throughout American history, movements against drugs and alcohol have generally come from the left, justified for reasons of common good, public health, and religion.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>A point that I have striven to make clear on various &#8216;leftist&#8217; blogs&#8230;and received pointed &#8216;radio silence&#8217; about&#8230;or been castigated for. </p>
<p>They become especially incensed when you point out that this occurred during the so-called <i>&#8216;Progressive Era&#8217;</i>. And that their inaction on examining the laws, divining their inherent racism, and then failing to see how those laws are causing enormous damage to their political base via voter disenfranchisement courtesy of drug law violations (which did not exist prior to the &#8216;Progressive Era&#8217;). And by failing to do so and act upon that, it&#8217;s partly why future national elections can be expected to be fiercely contested issues instead of exercises in ennui.  </p>
<p>But&#8230;they don&#8217; wanna hear it.</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169581</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169581</guid>
		<description>Christians who want to ban everything don&#039;t even understand what being a Christian truly means.  We&#039;ve given up following &#039;the law&#039; as the Jews do, we are just supposed to do the Lord&#039;s will.  We are supposed to understand that man is a fallen/sinful creature and will never be able to completely live a sinless life.  Most people can&#039;t even tell you what the two trees in the Garden of Eden are or what they represent.  They usually say something stupid like &#039;The Good Tree and the Bad Tree?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christians who want to ban everything don&#8217;t even understand what being a Christian truly means.  We&#8217;ve given up following &#8216;the law&#8217; as the Jews do, we are just supposed to do the Lord&#8217;s will.  We are supposed to understand that man is a fallen/sinful creature and will never be able to completely live a sinless life.  Most people can&#8217;t even tell you what the two trees in the Garden of Eden are or what they represent.  They usually say something stupid like &#8216;The Good Tree and the Bad Tree?&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Danno49</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169557</link>
		<dc:creator>Danno49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169557</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It must have made their heads spin when someone pointed out that Jesus turned water into wine.&lt;/i&gt;

Ah yes, but it was non-alcoholic wine, Mike.  This will come as no surprise to most of us here but it should be noted that there are those of certain religious persuasions that actually believe this.  It&#039;s bollocks, of course, but their reasoning is that the Lord wouldn&#039;t give them something that would harm them.  They never say something that could &lt;b&gt;potentially&lt;/b&gt; harm them.  For then they would have to get in a big debate over &lt;b&gt;their&lt;/b&gt; concepts of freewill . . . which invariably uses their own logic to defeat their arguments.  And they just can&#039;t have that.  They are quite ignorant of the true reasons why they have an absolute ban on alcoholic beverages and willfully so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It must have made their heads spin when someone pointed out that Jesus turned water into wine.</i></p>
<p>Ah yes, but it was non-alcoholic wine, Mike.  This will come as no surprise to most of us here but it should be noted that there are those of certain religious persuasions that actually believe this.  It&#8217;s bollocks, of course, but their reasoning is that the Lord wouldn&#8217;t give them something that would harm them.  They never say something that could <b>potentially</b> harm them.  For then they would have to get in a big debate over <b>their</b> concepts of freewill . . . which invariably uses their own logic to defeat their arguments.  And they just can&#8217;t have that.  They are quite ignorant of the true reasons why they have an absolute ban on alcoholic beverages and willfully so.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Paine's Goiter</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169546</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Paine's Goiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169546</guid>
		<description>Jesus, Radley - these are some damn amazing selections for guest bloggers.  Quality stuff so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus, Radley &#8211; these are some damn amazing selections for guest bloggers.  Quality stuff so far.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeT</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169543</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169543</guid>
		<description>It must have made their heads spin when someone pointed out that Jesus turned water into wine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It must have made their heads spin when someone pointed out that Jesus turned water into wine.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Krueger</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/08/15/american-idealism/comment-page-1/#comment-169531</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Krueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10490#comment-169531</guid>
		<description>This is making me thirsty.  Just my luck that the bottle of Jack Daniels I keep in my desk drawer is empty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is making me thirsty.  Just my luck that the bottle of Jack Daniels I keep in my desk drawer is empty.</p>
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