Uhh, what? No sane person thinks its only a problem in the black community but its increasingly a very obvious of a problem in that community and really all western/American socio-economic backgrounds.

And I’m sorry but if you think white women don’t have a similar stigma you’re living in a PC fantasy land. If anything its just a silent stigma as you get ripped apart for daring to actually state the truth for either community or just relationships in general. As in, “how dare you judge that poor single mother!”. Why not? She has no problem judging me and my lifestyle…

..Ms. Alkon thinks this is a good time to talk about black women hanging out with drug dealers too much. Is that what’s happening here? Just want to make sure I got this.

First of all, I was just sending information. Think whatever you want about Breggin—he’s one of the few people out there writing about how to wean yourself from psycho-pharmaceuticals. And who’s the famous doc? And did he actually LOOK at the data, which shows a shrp dropoff in Ritalin efficacy after 2-4 weeks, necessitating either an increase in dose or switching to another ADD drug?

Meh.

Thomas,

Those are all examples of overzealousness of SWAT teams, yes, yes, you win. Yes, the cops were wrong. But I still maintain that if Tarika Wilson hadn’t been in that particular drug dealer’s house at that particular time, she’d be alive. Prove me wrong.

But, really, Flynne et. al., is it not the case that 90% of those accidentally caught in these raids live, by virtue of their poor life choices, in marginal circumstances? Thus, they are indeed to blame for some of their misfortunes, as if they had lived properly, they would not live in places such as Harlem or Prince George County, etc. And indeed, this applies to all ghetto residents: if they took responsibility for themselves and lived appropriately, they would not have drug dealers around them, and thus would not be accidently shot, nes pa?

Sorry for the barrage of posts, but I noticed an error on my part. Here is the complete thought from above.

“That said, I wouldn’t argue that, probabilistically speaking, someone living in a house where drugs are present and/or trafficked is more likely to be killed by a raiding police officer than someone with no connection to drugs.”

Additionally, my whole line of examples was given to demonstrate that one need not be in the business of narco-trafficking to be raided and killed by criminals with badges. People of all ages, races, backgrounds, and professions are killed when cops play soldier while serving warrants.

Those are all examples of overzealousness of SWAT teams, yes, yes, you win. Yes, the cops were wrong. But I still maintain that if Tarika Wilson hadn’t been in that particular drug dealer’s house at that particular time, she’d be alive. Prove me wrong.

One cannot prove or disprove an alternate history. Your question is a sophism on par with me declaring that there is no God and then telling you to prove me wrong. Neither statement is falsifiable.

That said, I wouldn’t argue that, probabilistically speaking, someone living in a house where drugs are present and/or trafficked. But that’s not the point. The point is that Tarika Wilson died when she was shot by a cop serving a warrant in a fashion that unnecessarily introduces danger and volatility into the mix.

In pretty much every post. See, heres the deal…. if she were killed in a drive by from another gang or if another rival gang broke in the house and there was a problem, many of us would have no problem with the “Its partially her responsibility” and “she had a reason to expect that she might some day be shot”. Those things r true, if the action is performed by a rival gang. We would recognize the drug war as the most likely root cause, but she would bear her share of the blame. This however is not the case here. She was shot by government agents. Granted, those government agents r as bad as any rival gang if not worse, but they arent sposed to be. A rival gang didnt bring this violence on her. The government did. A street gang doesnt take my rights as a citizen away from me on an ongoing almost daily basis. Government does.

Where do you see anyone on this thread or on amy’s page making excuses for the cop? At most you see people pointing out that Tarika wasn’t a complete bystander here. She did in fact live with a drug dealer. The police are more likely to invade than they would if it was a completely innocent household. I acknowledge that they do sometimes raid innocent households, but mostly they try to avoid that. Believe it or not, fault is rarely all or nothing. And yes, radley has collected a large number of examples of police doing exactly that, but it remains true that they are a depressingly common exception, not the rule.

Nowhere in the above do I pretend or claim that such raids are acceptable even on guilty parties. They are just more common. Nor do I absolve the officer in any way.

Dude, it is NEVER ok for a cop to shoot an unarmed person and the unarmed person is NEVER responsible for it simply because of the company they keep, or being at a certain place at a certain time, or living a certain lifestyle that isnt state sanctioned.

Claude, keep looking for the stat, let me know what you find. I didn’t state it as “fact”, I said “could”.

A little common sense and personal repsonsibility goes a long way towards self-preservation.

Personal responsibility goes both ways, dipshit. As I said, she accepted the possible dangers of living how she did. The real responsibility here lies with the cop that busted into a house, not knowing if the real “perp.” was there, not knowing that the person they fired at in the dark was in fact an innocent woman and her child.

Trust me, I’m a big fan of personal responsibility, but the cop is the aggressor, not Tarika Wilson.

Nice try btw but im looking for the stat that 1 out of X number of drivers will be involved in an accident versus 1 out of X number of drug dealers will get raided. U stated it as if it were “fact” but in reality its just how u would like to think it is and not reality.

I use “cute widdle abbreviations” so guys like u have something to gripe about when they cant actually defeat the message. Works like a charm.

:D

Those are all examples of overzealousness of SWAT teams, yes, yes, you win. Yes, the cops were wrong. But I still maintain that if Tarika Wilson hadn’t been in that particular drug dealer’s house at that particular time, she’d be alive. Prove me wrong.

Claude,

Are you really that full of yourself? Why don’t you try spelling words out instead of using cute widdle abbreviations that indicate your childishness and laziness? There are fewer drug dealers than drivers, yes? Given that there are more drivers than drug dealers, the probability of drug dealers getting raided more often than regular joes getting rear-ended in their cars could be valid. No, I don’t have a link.

Danny,

I didn’t say she CHOSE to stay there during the raid, I said she CHOSE to be with the drug dealer. The raid was something she couldn’t have predicted, couldn’t have caused, and couldn’t have avoided unless she CHOSE not to live with a drug dealer. See how that works? A little common sense and personal repsonsibility goes a long way towards self-preservation. And, yes, it was a straw man argument. No one chooses to get in an accident, accidents happen. Raids happen too, but if you live with a drug dealer, you’ll probably be raided sooner than not. And if you CHOOSE to live with a drug dealer, chances are, you’ll get raided.