The problem here isn’t thuggish cops (though they exist, and need to be weeded out). The problem here is sending guys smashing through the door with guns drawn. There’s just no way to make that into a low-risk operation, so it should only be used in situations where there are no other decent choices at all–something like a hostage situation, maybe. Using this for low-level drug dealers is nuts, like trying to get rid of the rats in your apartment by blazing away at them with a handgun–you’ll likely kill some rats, but you’re also liable to kill a neighbor or two by mistake.

#12 Steve Verdon: Excellent point. The cops should be hesitant to fire because they are SUPPOSED TO BE “peace officers,” not soldiers. Their mission SHOULD be to preserve life whenever possible and to stop the threat with minimal use of force. As Radley continues to document, the wall between civillian peace officer and soldier is crumbling everyday. If police departments don’t want to be viewed as “standing armies” (and they essentially are in the ghetto) then they better stop this shit.

too bad the rule that says a cop is allowed to shoot if he feels his life is in danger doesn’t apply to civilians.

Here in Virginia, It does apply to civilians. And the Chesapeake Police are about to be reminded of that in the Ryan Frederick case.

It does? Everyplace I know of, one had to have a reasonable belief–not just a feeling–that his life is in danger, and that shooting will alleviate that danger without endangering innocents. Further, except within one’s home, one must reasonably believe that no other non-lethal course of action will alleviate the danger.

I cannot think of any circumstance where it is proper for a policeman to shoot through a blind wall without knowledge of what’s beyond it. I wonder what the “prosecutor” had to do to throw the case?

At least with Long, the police have done some introspection and maybe reform, although that probably has more to do with lawyers than police. Why can’t the police at least take the middle ground more often, and support cops like Chavalia as “doing the best he could under the circumstances”, while admitting the need to change policies to prevent such circumstances? I’m not so jaded as to think the police want infants shot, but it’s hard to hold on to that minimal level of faith in them if they refuse to see it happening as a sign they need to make changes.

…tail-whipped…

Lest anyone think this sounds wimpy, my American Pit Bull Terrier’s tail is like a thick steel cable when it hits. Getting hit in the face really hurts.

So cops in Lima can now shoot anyone they wish under any circumstances if they just think you are armed?

Yes.

Not once have I ever even thought of drawing my gun and shooting one of the dogs.

Why?

Am I more intelligent and rational than these dog killers?

Am I more moral then they?

Perhaps part of it is that if *I* needlessly shoot a dog I go to jail, lose my job, get sued, lose my standing in the community, and will be officially villified by the “justice” system and the local media.

Maybe if cops had to worry about such things there would be less stupid killings of innocent dogs.

Did I misread? I understood that the dog WAS on a lead.

I think they’re saying that either the lead was too long or there was no signage warning the officer, so he was so surprised he opened fire.

Someone that twitchy shouldn’t be a cop at all.

Did I misread? I understood that the dog WAS on a lead.

Perhaps from now on, all dog owners should be required to set up a perimeter alarm for the popo. “Warning, Warning. There is a dog on the premises. Please do not be alarmed. He is tied up in the back yard inside a crate and behind a locked fence. You may, however, hear him bark.”

And to think that Vick feller is looked down upon!

“The officer, Eric Bacon, said the dog charged him aggressively and that he was afraid he would be attacked.”

Welcome to the New World Order.

The po-lice will have order, even if it kills us.

The cops are the only ones who have guns, and the only ones who get wood shooting anything living. Shooting dogs generally has no downside. Even shooting humans, as seen in Ohio, doesn’t result in terrible consequences.

Lima, Ohio — A jury verdict that cleared a police officer in the drug-raid shooting death of an unarmed woman will allow other officers to do their job without hesitation, police union officials said.

Complete Bravo Sierra. I want the cops to hesitate so they don’t shoot innocents. This kind of mentality has the very distinct possibility of leading to shoot first, and don’t worry about the consequences because there are none.

Yes, it could mean more dead and injured cops. Guess what that is the type of job you signed up for. If you don’t like it quit and go find a nice and safe cubicle jockey job.

It turned out that Wilson didn’t have a weapon and that the gunfire Chavalia heard was coming from downstairs, where officers shot two charging pit bulls.

I’m even skeptical of this. The more likely scenario is they saw pit bull terriers and shot them irrespective of what they were doing. And knowing what pit bull terriers are like, I doubt they were charging. This type of dog, despite all the hyperbole are simply not known for being human aggressive.

But jurors were told by visiting Judge Richard Knepper during jury instructions that they could not consider the fact that she was unarmed because that was known only after the shooting.

Does this judge realize the perverse incentive he’s just put in place? Cops can now use deadly force with much greater regularity because the cop can always say, “I wasn’t sure if the person had a weapon or not and I was scared for my life.” Great job judge dumbass.

“If the rules are changed, officers are going to react later,” Watkins said. “You’re going to have them hesitating, and there are more who are going to be injured or killed.”

Yes, precisely, this way we also have fewer dead and injured innocents. You can see the perverse outlook of organizations like the FOP: Cops have greater value than the innocent. That is the bottomline. By allowing cops to just shoot willy nilly they are little better than the thugs they are supposedly protecting us from.

The verdict further angered Wilson’s family and others in Lima’s black community. “The message I got out of all this is that it’s OK for police to go and kill in a drug raid,” said Arnold Manley, pastor of Pilgrim Rescue Missionary Baptist Church.

Yep. After all, all they have to be is afraid for their life and unaware of whether or not the suspect has a weapon. How much longer before SWAT units go in shooting?

Chavalia’s career with the city’s police department is essentially over despite the verdict, Kluge said. He would not say what the officer planned to do next.

Good. I have no sympathy for him. He killed an innocent person. If I did something like that in a similar situation (e.g. I see a shadowy form moving around in my house, and hear something I take to be gun fire and shoot and kill) I’m going to jail, probably going to be charged if it turns out the person doesn’t have a weapon. Why should cops get special treatment in this? Was he handcuffed and hauled off to the police station in a humiliating manner in front of family and friends? Was he tossed in with the rest of the people in jail, or was he given preferential treatement. We all know the answer to that one.

I’m really begining to dislike cops. I see them as a necessary evil at best, and that is for the supposedly “good cops”.