“Oh, and in NY you are required to ID yourself to a police officer on demand. That does not necessarily mean show ID — stating name and DOB is enough to comply with the law.”

And whether or not one knows this is no excuse to ignore an officer when she makes a request. “My name is ____ Lin. What seems to be the trouble, officer?” Cops aren’t pigs, inherently. A lot of them in this video were acting badly. On the same hand, if indeed the beginning of the vid shows bikers evading citation for traffic violations, well, that’s already an escalated situation and should be treated as such by the onlookers.

By the way, constitutional rights really only have power in the court-room—on the street they exist as ad hoc heuristics on the same level as your basic ability to reason. There’s no reason to be confrontational with a cop if you know you’re acting legally.

And just a thought: You know who’s gonna be enforcing new, more bicycle friendly street laws? Cops.

I think it’s good tactics. Don’t go quietly. Don’t struggle, gives em an excuse to taser or beat you, but scream your head off, scream bloody murder rapine & fire. It makes the cops VERY unhappy, and also, notice that in the video there is no concerted gathering of a crowd, no real rise in the threat level, until Joyce Lin starts screaming.

I fully expect that there would follow a rash of arrests for screaming, but surely even in this climate that would be seen as going too far?

There may be some truth in that but more than likely, you’d have gun-shy cops wasting people and having it found “justifiable”. Police union here in my town wants to have an internal shooting review board. Nice, huh?

But also, as I asked before, who will be the first to fire the proverbial revolutionary shot or in this case, jump on a cop when he’s violating Constitutional rights. Those folks around Joyce Lin could only yell “police state” and “fascist”. Nobody jumped in.

Depends on what kind of revolution you want. I think people really are waking up to things like this, but in the coming years, it may get more and more violent, which is something I wouldn’t prefer. In essence, that would make us as bad as the cops and the actions were discussing here. But then again, through violence is how we got this country and the words we’re supposed to live by today from our Founding Fathers. People got sick of their form of government and took to rebellion.

So, for us, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it’s OK for someone who is paid to enforce the law to be ignorant of the land’s most basic law?

Of course, our real beef isn’t with the cops, but with the courts and legislatures that grant them and their supervisors and departments qualified immunity and every conceivable benefit of the doubt – and more – even when there is no doubt whatsoever that a cop has perjured himself in a situation such as this, he won’t be prosecuted for perjury. If every time a cop detained someone or demanded ID without due cause, his bosses had to cough up $5,000, you’d bet they’d see their hired guns understood constitutional rights. If every time a cop was caught filing a false report to incriminate someone, his department was on the hook for six figures in damages and legal fees, any hint of testilying would become a firing offense. And if people recovered full damages for wrong-door raids, and drug raids inspired by lying informers, the police departments would probably discover that they just couldn’t afford the war on some drugs.

It seems like this may have been Benedict Arnold’s attitude also.
Thank god many of the founding fathers had a stronger constitution, and risks their lives to stop the insane rule of King George III.”

What I’m saying is, pick your battles wisely. Going by her reaction, Joyce Lin wasn’t ready to fight it and somewhere along the lines wasn’t told that cops sometimes don’t play by “the rules”. Her reaction is one of total naivety. Notice the other bikers who calmly accepted the circumstances. I’m not saying the cops were right because they weren’t, but those bikers picked their battles wisely.

There seems to be a lot of bluster about how people would react and what they’d do in a cop’s face. That’s fine and all on the internet to other anonymous and like-minded people but how many of us here are ready to pick up a gun and fight to take this country back against such grevious Constitutional abuses? Last time, I checked the American Revolution wasn’t fought by riding bicycles and screaming and running away when oppressed and talking big on the internet. Are you ready for armed revolution? And who here will fire the first shot? Otherwise, it’s educating others on libertarian philosophy. Once I explain about libertarian ideals to people, they light up. If you’re not going to fight it in the streets than fight for the minds.

Believe me, I’m with everybody on this NYPD travesty, but life experience has taught when and where to deal with the cops and what attitude I should take at the time. Whether it’s quoting the 4th Amendment to a police officer (and winning) or refusing to waive my right to a trial (also winning), there’s a time and a place. And if you do, be prepared to take the possible, maybe immediate consequences (and I was).

They are NOT under close control. They are mostly OUT OF CONTROL.

They rarely suffer any consequences for severe abuse of authority.

Their bane is the cell-phone camera. They hate an independent witness to their actions. Next, they’ll want cell-phone jammers like our military in Iraq have.

I’m no policeman.

My point is, if you’re going to flaunt your Constitutional rights, be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Yeah, that’s pretty much what has us worked up these days….

Whim, I’m looking in your direction…

The problem is that the chance approaches unity that the cops in question will get nothing more than a two week paid vacation for their wrongdoing, when what should have happened is that they should be in jail (general population).

Oh, and in NY you are required to ID yourself to a police officer on demand. That does not necessarily mean show ID — stating name and DOB is enough to comply with the law.

Sort of like distaste for people who demand to see a lawyer instead of just cooperating with the cops the way that all honest people should do?

Insisting on one’s rights? That kind of distasteful activity?

They generally wear UNIFORMS, and drive prominently Marked Cars.

EASY targets. Surprise them coming off of donut or bathroom break.

Just make sure you bring enough rope. Electrical conduit will do as a substitute.