More NYPD vs. Bikers

Wednesday, August 6th, 2008

Put aside your distaste for activist bikers for a sec, and note just how much the police reports here diverge from what’s captured on video. The incident starting at around the three minute mark is particularly troubling.

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90 Responses to “More NYPD vs. Bikers”

  1. #1 |  Bernard | 

    Looks like more promotions in the offing. I worry that there aren’t enough senior positions in the force to support all these stellar examples of police professionalism.

  2. #2 |  CRNewsom | 

    How many “bad apples” does it take before people start seeing the whole barrel as rotten?

    Seriously, though, one of these guys will be chief of police pretty soon…

  3. #3 |  Nun Ya | 

    Give someone a gun and a badge and…

  4. #4 |  Danno49 | 

    THERE!! ARE!! FOUR!! LIGHTS!!

    Seriously. How can anyone see what they claiming? It’s not even close to approaching what is seen with our own eyes.

  5. #5 |  Ginger Dan | 

    Looks like this month’s Critical Mass might be the event of the summer here in the Rotten Apple.

  6. #6 |  Geekfather | 

    Wait… what started that whole debacle? Were the bike riders illegally protesting? Blocking traffic? Taunting the cops?

    What?

  7. #7 |  nobahdi | 

    Is anybody else troubled by systemic corruption of the police force?

  8. #8 |  Ben | 

    [blockquote]THERE!! ARE!! FOUR!! LIGHTS!![/blockquote]

    You were watching Sci Fi Channel two nights ago weren’t you? (Assuming you’re referencing the ST:TNG episode)

    On the video, when do we start revolting against this shit? They can’t put the entire population in jail, no matter how much they’d like to. I understand that there are plenty of cops out there that are actually honorable and good, but they’re getting fewer and fewer it seems.

  9. #9 |  MacK | 

    Geekfather what do you mean were they illegally protesting?

    Are you saying they need a permit, license, or some other writ from big brother to make a protest?

    More cops were blocking traffic then bike riders.

    Is taunting a cop against the law under the 1st Amendment of the Constitution as to free speech?

  10. #10 |  ktc2 | 

    Had it been a rally of Hell’s Angels or similar large motorcyclists I bet the cops would have kept in line. Cowardly bastards.

  11. #11 |  ManM | 

    Reluctantly, I’m starting to like Critical Mass.

  12. #12 |  HtownGuy | 

    From a cop’s comment in the video:

    “You’re gonna do what I’m gonna say!”

    I think that sums up LEO attitudes nationwide.

  13. #13 |  Jeremy | 

    I don’t see why cars are more entitled to the road than bikes. Cars jam up NYC roads all the time; what’s the difference if bicyclists do it? And yes, bikers ignore traffic laws all the time – and it’s annoying- but they don’t have the same ability to inflict damage on others that a car does either.

    I’m tempted to say this is just standard kneejerk libertarian distaste for activism in general. Public spaces are for shopping, not your politics!

  14. #14 |  scottp | 

    I didn’t know you could refuse to show ID.
    I’d love to try it, but I’m afraid of what might happen if I did.

  15. #15 |  Eric Berlin » Blog Archive » Gosh, I wonder why policemen don’t like it when you take pictures? | 

    [...] Astounding video out of New York City of the cops arresting anyone who dares to photograph them. [...]

  16. #16 |  Ben | 

    Public spaces are for shopping, not your politics!

    I really hope you’re just trolling. Public places are exactly where these protests should happen. I personally don’t want to see us slip any further toward a police state than we already have.

    One of my favorite quotes:

    They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin, 1755

    It is up to the population to keep it’s liberty safe. If that requires us to ‘watch the watchers’ (police in this case) by video taping their actions (which would be assault if perpetrated by anyone other than a cop) than so be it.

  17. #17 |  Billy Beck | 

    If these crummy bastards were met on their own premises with the element of force — the only thing they revere — determined to meet them, we’d see how soon they were ready to attempt something like this after a couple of ignominious retreats leaving their own blood and bones in the street.

    The prospect does not excite or gratify me, but that’s where all this is going, sooner or later.

    God rot their shit-filled souls.

  18. #18 |  MassHole | 

    Any lawyers out there? Do these guys have a case for a lawsuit against the individual officers or police dept? Sure seems like it.

  19. #19 |  Danno49 | 

    Ben,

    I actually DVR’ed it and plan to watch it sometime this weekend. I haven’t seen it in years. It is one of my favorite TNGs. That quote from Picard is my standard answer to those who would tell me that I am seeing something that is not there.

  20. #20 |  Matt Moore | 

    How did the guy taking the video we’re watching get away with it? The cops notice him filming and tell him to back up at one point, but they never tell him to stop.

  21. #21 |  Two--Four | 

    [...] that

  22. #22 |  Matt Moore | 

    The website for the movie implies that the Critical Mass riders weren’t being harassed for breaking any traffic laws. Instead they were being stopped for violating a new parade regulation that states that protests of more than 50 people need a permit.

    Sounds like the city found that the bikers weren’t breaking existing laws, so NYC had to make up a new (constitutionally suspect) one to get them.

  23. #23 |  Marty | 

    At least they didn’t taze her and help her fall down a flight of steps. I’m glad Joyce didn’t bring her dog with her…

    I guarantee you those cowards were starting to sweat when the crowd began chanting ‘Let her go!’ This whole event looked horribly close to veering out of control because these asshole cops are clearly used to escalating situations instead of defusing them.

  24. #24 |  Hunter | 

    @Marty: And escalation is really what it comes down to when you see all these awful instances of cops acting aggresively. In any small confrontation it only really takes one person to be reasonable and calm everyone down for the situation to be resolved peacefully. It would be nice if we could count on the public at large to always be the ones to be calm, so that crazy cops could still be crazy and situations wouldn’t get out of control.

    But considering that we give police the exclusive right to use force to detain lawbreakers, it’s far more reasonable to ask police officers to be the calm, rational, and reasonable parties, especially since that the officers have ostensibly been vetted upon hiring and are more trustworthy people than the rest of the rabble. Obviously, that’s not the case.

  25. #25 |  Mark S | 

    It won’t be long until there is a riot at one of these events and multiple officers are killed and wounded.

    They are provoking a war there won’t be any love-in stuff like the 60’s, it’ll be all Panthers.

  26. #26 |  Ginger Dan | 

    Now that a few of these videos have surfaced, I wonder what the NYPD has planned for the end of the month. I’m sure there are already undercovers who ride along with Critical Mass, so I wonder if they’ll be targeting people with cameras first, and randomly knocking people off bikes second. Don’t put it past these “heroes” to do something like stretching a net across Broadway to ensnare as many “lawbreakers” as they can.

    On another note, Sgts. in the NYPD are outfitted with Tasers as part of a pilot program, so look for that to increase. I’m sure Sgt. Chuckles from the video put his name at the top of the list to get one.

  27. #27 |  SusanK | 

    If the people taking pictures were part of or came along with the critical mass biker riders, they they may be the answer to the police problem: exposing lying cops by video. Obviously, these arrests were caught by multiple cameras. Cops aren’t entirely stupid – they’ll figure out real quick they can’t lie about arrests made on a public street. Then they’ll either quit or go SWAT.

  28. #28 |  MacK | 

    ScottP:
    “I didn’t know you could refuse to show ID.
    I’d love to try it, but I’m afraid of what might happen if I did.”

    Yes it is true!

    The 4th Amendment states:
    “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

    Notice that little word “papers”. That means that for them to just stop you ask ask for your ID (papers) is not reasonable, they need a reason. If they do not have a reason, then you do not need to show them crap.

    Now this would not apply to when you are driving, and get pulled over for not using a turning signal. In this case you have been stopped for a valid reason, and must prove that you have qualified to operate the vehicle, so you would have to show your ID (drivers license).

    Now as far as trying it, but not sure of the consequences, thats another story. Here is a brief but interesting take on what the punishment for every known crime is. The punishment is death!

    http://www.nostate.com/116/the-penalty-is-always-death/

  29. #29 |  j.d. | 

    i look forward to the time when the police overstep thier bounds on an innocent person and the people looking on respond with serious violence.

    i wish there was a single video of people standing up to these asshole government officials. just once.

  30. #30 |  Zeb | 

    You don’t legally need to have any ID at all (though practically you probably do). So you can always respond to a demand for ID by saying you do not have any. Unfortunately, this works in fewer and fewer circumstances with this ReadlID nonsense and other undue restrictions.
    Requirements to identify yourself are particularly bothersome to me. A right to anonymity in public seems to me an even more important right than a right to privacy. Police should be forbidden to ask anyone to identify himself without PC.

  31. #31 |  Zeb | 

    j.d.
    Unfortunately, such a video would serve little more purpose than to guarantee the person standing up some jail time.

  32. #32 |  j.d. | 

    fair point. but, it’s disheartening to watch a population freely enable the abusers to abuse them. so long as the people enable them, the abusers will become more emboldened over time.

  33. #33 |  Peter | 

    Don’t forget that each of the charges filed against these folks were drawnup and filed by Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau’s assistant prosecutors.

    You might want to ask Morgenthau and his minions WTF:

    http://manhattanda.org/contact.shtml

  34. #34 |  Billy Beck | 

    SusanK“Then they’ll either quit or go SWAT.”

    In years gone by, this was known as “intensification of struggle”.

    ~~~~~

    It pains me to watch conjecture about what happens if you refuse to produce ID. Almost invariably, you’re going to jail. You can do it, and it’s an admirable thing, but you need to be ready for the ride.

  35. #35 |  MacK | 

    I was wrong about the penalty is always death, sometimes they will take your home for a ticket of a vehicle that is in your own driveway at the time the ticket is issued.

    http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=779234

    I do not care what world you are in, for a city to think that taking a $245k home for an original $50 ticket is insane.

  36. #36 |  Ben | 

    fair point. but, it’s disheartening to watch a population freely enable the abusers to abuse them. so long as the people enable them, the abusers will become more emboldened over time.

    Read the quote in my comment #16.

  37. #37 |  Highway | 

    MacK,

    Nothing is ‘insane’ in the world of ‘for the children’ and ‘sending a message’.

  38. #38 |  Matt Moore | 

    Zeb – I think if you lie about not having ID you’ve technically broken the law. Better just to refuse.

  39. #39 |  Geekfather | 

    I guess I’m still confused as to what exactly Mr. Vazquez did to get pushed off. Nothing as far as I can see.

  40. #40 |  Don | 

    Actually, refusing to provide ID got muddier a few years ago with the Hiibel case. You DO have to identify yourself, though supposedly doing that verbally – without providing ID – is enough, though I wouldn’t be at all surprised to get detained in a situation like that.

    I think this one is a long lost fight. We’ve diverged from all reality when it comes to identification and come to this belief that knowing WHO someone is tells us something meaningful – cf: the TSA requiring your papers at the airport. Everyone has been convinced that proving who you are to The Authorities somehow makes us all safer.

  41. #41 |  Windypundit | 

    I think we’re seeing the solution here to a lot of problems: Mass video recording. When you see something you don’t like, start taping. Cover each other. Get evidence.

  42. #42 |  perlhaqr | 

    All those talking about “not providing ID”, please google “Hiibel”, and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

    You will not be pleased.

  43. #43 |  Sam | 

    Nothing is correct, which would be the point.

  44. #44 |  Vlad Drac | 

    If I have no government-issued identification, my inability to produce it is not a refusal.

  45. #45 |  Kevin | 

    I find the behavior of most everyone in this video sad. The guy on the unicycle is the only one who I have any respect for.

    Those bicyclists (please don’t call them bikers, bikers ride things with motors, and the cops generally like us a lot more (-; ) were running a red light (notice the trailing bicyclists stop, and traffic on the left being to move across shortly after, you can also see the red light at 16 seconds into the video), right in front of the police, AND trying to evade them. The cops are on foot, and if they just start allowing every red light-running bicyclist to evade them, they may as well not even be there.

    To the person that suggested it’s no big deal to run red lights since bicyclists cannot do much damage, perhaps you should think about that a little more. Car hits bicyclist, driver has to live with it. Car swerves to miss bicyclist, hits another car, or maybe one of the officers who are patroling the crosswalk. Cars observe bicyclists running red lights all the time, and decide they are going to do it themselves. Traffic laws are not voluntary…. for anyone, even the police, btw.

    The cops were totally out of line once the original arrests of those bicyclists started. The arrests, and the claims on the reports, make them look silly (I find it hilarious on many levels that they charged that guy with leaving his bike on the sidewalk). I also have to wonder why they just didn’t give the guy a ticket. I guess because he was also trying to evade them? Still, their actions were reprehensible, but perhaps not for the reasons most think. It seems clear to me they were in over their head and were scared of things escalating, which is probably what the bicyclists were going for. Then they tried to cover their butts in the arrest reports by exaggerating or in some cases inventing some facts.

    As for the girl at the end, I have no sympathy for her. She ignored the officer, snapped a flash photo right in his face twice, walked off still ignoring him, then resisted arrest and whined and screamed like a 4 year old having a tantrum. I am not defending the officers, I am simply pointing out she was, on purpose, a part of the problem. In fact, the whole even appears orchestrated to me. Where’s Oliver Stone when you need him (:

    If an officer asks you for your ID, you cannot act that way. You can say “Officer, my 4th amendment rights only require me to respond to that request only if you have probable cause to request it. I respectfully decline your request.”

    Think of how great it would be if she did that, they arrested her anyway, and someone had *that* on tape.

    Some would argue she does not need to acknowledge the officer, since she was doing nothing wrong. I can see the merits of this argument, but in practice, it’s just not reasonable. If officers had to endure this type of response, it would have a negative impact in the long run on their response to all types of encounters.

  46. #46 |  Matt Moore | 

    If an officer asks you for your ID, you cannot act that way. You can say “Officer, my 4th amendment rights only require me to respond to that request only if you have probable cause to request it. I respectfully decline your request.”

    No, you’re perfectly within your rights to act just the way she did.

    If officers had to endure this type of response, it would have a negative impact in the long run on their response to all types of encounters.

    Or perhaps they’d just stop asking people for ID for no good reason.

  47. #47 |  chance | 

    What gets me is that the cops would commit such blatant acts, while knowing they are under the eye of numerous cameras.

  48. #48 |  Mike | 

    It’s this kind of thing that makes me giggle uncontrollably when people say, “Oh, but if we had anarchy, there would be chaos!”

    Oh, and fuck da po-lice.

  49. #49 |  Linda Morgan | 

    Vlad: If I have no government-issued identification, my inability to produce it is not a refusal.

    I wonder how close we are to the day when the failure to have government-issued ID on one’s person is of itself and at all times a crime.
    ————-
    Re the video: Only stupidest of police and police departments can any longer presume an ability to exempt themselves from the enhanced public scrutiny that present-day photographic and video-recording technologies afford. The game is over, the bad guys have lost, and the lessons that must now be learned are (1) behave yourself in public and (2) tell the truth about what you do out here.
    ————–
    MacK, I’m not sure that “Thanks” is what I really want to say to you for bringing poor Peter Tubic’s predicament to my attention. I was, after all, in a much better mood and more serene frame of mind before reading it.

    It’s hard to say anymore that any one thing just takes the cake, but honest to God, the willingness of people to shrug and stare and allow that troubled soul to be punished with such over-the-top calamity is disturbing in the extreme. The Marquette law professor, for all her talk of tragedy, conceding “the city has to enforce its zoning laws.” Wow.

    And to think that such sordid horror was brought to Mr. Tubic and us all by something as benign – even pleasant – sounding as the Department of Neighborhood Services. Yeah, right. Mr. Orwell’s neighborhood. Would you be mine, could you be mine, won’t you . . . just forget it.

  50. #50 |  Andrew Williams | 

    Fuck. Tha. Po. Lice.

    Us whites are finally getting what black, Mexican, AmerIndian and Asian folks have known for a LOOOOOONG time.

  51. #51 |  Dublinsaab | 

    This is way I avoid TS like the plague.

    The west village is a much more laid back place, even with all the poncey twats that have moved in over the last few years.

  52. #52 |  Sam | 

    Umm – why is there a general distaste for biker activists? Do libertarian/free-marketeers object to bicycle riding? I seriously have no idea what the objection would be from people who believe in freedom…

  53. #53 |  claude | 

    Starting to not even phase me anymore. :(

  54. #54 |  jagannath | 

    “I wonder how close we are to the day when the failure to have government-issued ID on one’s person is of itself and at all times a crime.”

    Required ID’s worked marvelously fine for Third Reich. It made it so much easier and faster to separate the subhumans or potential criminals of the day from Aryans as all was recorded in the Id papers.

  55. #55 |  J.E. Andreasen | 

    At what point do we begin to treat these thugs as the bald-faced violent criminals that they are?

    Were it not for their clothing and clipboards, any rational person could hardly be faulted in violently resisting them as necessary to stop their assault and protect the innocent from further predation.

    Stop buying into the “State” myth. Its sole purpose is risk reduction for evil.

  56. #56 |  Psion | 

    Sam, as a (formerly) ardent bicyclist, I’d say that it has to do with the behavior apparent from some of these bike activists. When I first got serious about bicycling, the first thing I learned was that a bicycle is a vehicle and the cyclist has to respect the same laws motor vehicle operators do. That means you stop for red lights.

    It’s true you can’t do as much damage to someone running a red light with a bicycle as you can with an auto, but you’re still talking about one to two hundred or so pounds of flesh and metal moving at up to twenty-five or thirty miles per hour. A motorist once pulled a left turn right in front of me as I went through an intersection, leaving me no time to come to a stop … after picking myself and my now ruined bike off the street, I noticed the car I hit now had a sizeable dent over his right rear quarter panel. Another time, while walking on lunch break downtown in a major city, a young woman in front of me stepped off the curb after the light turned green and was immediately and forcefully struck by a bicycle courier trying to get through the intersection before cross-traffic started moving. She rolled, ass-over-head, two or three times before coming to a dazed stop in the middle of that intersection and began screaming. To his credit, the cyclist, who also spilled, stopped to help her. (On my way back from lunch, I saw the cyclist being arrested.)

    I have to say, as a bicyclist, the aggression some motorists show towards people on bikes is disgusting. Many aren’t willing to share the road at all and God help you if you’re a bicyclist using the left turn lane to make a left turn! But the answer to this isn’t to become completely unruly and disobey all laws, but to meticulously adhere to them and be ready to politely and unrepentantly explain how you’re obeying those laws.

    So I feel a bit of kinship with Critical Mass … but only because they’re riding self-propelled on two wheels. There’s nothing to excuse uncooked bacon from trying to throw a cyclist from their vehicle, and I hope those thugs with badges get their asses handed to them over this incident. But I’d feel much more smugly satisfied if Critical Mass were riding with respect for the rules of the road.

  57. #57 |  Justin | 

    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

    Simply felt that it needed to be said.

  58. #58 |  buzz | 

    “All those talking about “not providing ID”, please google “Hiibel”, and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada
    You will not be pleased.”

    So perlhaqr
    , did you by chance read your own cite?

    “…held that statutes requiring suspects to identify themselves during police investigations did not violate either the Fourth or Fifth Amendments”

    So what was she suspected of? What were they investigating? That cite of yours does not mean you must provide id solely because the cops ask you for it.

  59. #59 |  JakeR | 

    thank god for video cameras.

    every time i see something like this all i can think about are the thousands and thousands of incidents that happen that aren’t filmed, or the hundreds of thousands of incidents that occurred before we were fortunate enough to have everyone carrying cameras around.

  60. #60 |  perlhaqr | 

    Buzz: The cite was valid. I didn’t say that you could not refuse to show id, but that one should be certain of one’s surroundings before doing so. For example, in Nevada, you cannot refuse to show id.

    “Suspect” refers to anyone the police are talking to. It may not be right, but it’s how things are.

  61. #61 |  Adrian | 

    From comment #46 “If an officer asks you for your ID, you cannot act that way. You can say ‘Officer, my 4th amendment rights only require me to respond to that request only if you have probable cause to request it. I respectfully decline your request’.”

    The standard in States that have statutes requiring identification to officers would be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity (see Terry v. Ohio). Probable cause is a higher standard ( required in order to arrest someone or have warrants issued). The difference in reality may not exist but technically the terms differ in the required legal standard.

  62. #62 |  Whim | 

    Did you remember to always shoot the Oppressors right, smack in the face?

    No armored vest, there.

    What a SURPRISE!

    Ouch!

    That way, their loved ones cannot have an Open Casket funeral.

    Not very pretty anymore.

    So sorry.

    Does Sergeant WhoreHo need the first shot? Right in the mouth?

    He deserves it.

    More the better.

  63. #63 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    To Whim:
    Ah, the old G Gordon Liddy method of problem resolution. Are you a cigar chomping, violence-craving fascist like Gordo? Ya know, maybe we could just take the officer’s badge and put him in jail for his offense. I know it doesn’t satisfy your blood lust, but it would be, you know, more consistent with the way we are supposed to do things in the ol’ US of A. By the way, aren’t you missing a 9-11 truther convention or something?

    P.S. Wait just a darn minute, are you by any chance an “agent provacateur” on a super secret mission to make Radley Balko’s site look like it caters to wack jobs? His work probably does piss off the powers that be, so, just asking. It’s happened before.

  64. #64 |  Cop-bashing - Page 3 - The Unofficial BMW M5 Messageboard (m5board.com) | 

    [...] shining beacon of professionalism: The Agitator

  65. #65 |  Harvey | 

    The Joyce Lin part is troubling for me.

    First of all, I know she was within her rights. However, she uses a camera flash in the cop’s face.

    Not good.

    Secondly, she just ignores the cop when he asks for ID. And does it with attitude.

    Really not good.

    She’s within her rights, I understand, but cops don’t like attitude. Attitude will get you nowhere with the police, regardless of your rights. Anybody who’s had any dealing with cops should know that. The other lady produced her ID and was let go. A waiving of her rights, yes, but cops like a person who has nothing to hide. And at least feigns respect.

    The idea though that she started screaming like she was being murdered almost seems planned, very dramatic. However, if she knows her rights, pulling away from a cop when he says you’re arrested is pretty much going to get you a resisting arrest charge. Then everybody yelling fascist and police state doesn’t help matters. If you’re gonna be a martyr, you gotta be prepared to go the full nine.

    I’ve gotten out of more shit for feigning respect and producing ID. However, I was in the wrong; things like fighting and drinking in parking lots (general drunken misbehavior). My point is, if you’re going to flaunt your Constitutional rights, be prepared to suffer the consequences. Not everybody has read it. Most likely, they’re cops.

    Kudos to everybody involved who made this video. Still freaks me out that so many people have cameras pointed at everybody but this is a good example of concerned citizens producing a damning indictment of a ill-trained and poorly staffed police force.

  66. #66 |  Billy Beck | 

    “She’s within her rights, I understand, but cops don’t like attitude.”

    Fuck them, right out loud. What they “like” doesn’t matter.

  67. #67 |  Billy Beck | 

    “Cops don’t like attitude.” The original master of attitude on the American street and they don’t like attitude? Goddammit, the more I think about that, the more ready I am to jam an attitude in a cops face and make him suck it like it’s my big throbbing dick. I don’t give a runny shit what a cop “doesn’t like”. That has fuck-all to do with his job, and if he can stand that, then the worthless shitbag should go into rutabaga ranching or whatever but he should get his pig ass out of my sight.

  68. #68 |  MacK | 

    Harvey so what you are saying is it is better to be an oppressed ass kisser, and show respect to the public servants (notice not public masters), even when it is not deserved (like a modern day slave to the establishment), then to stand up for your rights, and encourage others to fight the good fight?

    It seems like this may have been Benedict Arnold’s attitude also.
    Thank god many of the founding fathers had a stronger constitution, and risks their lives to stop the insane rule of King George III.

  69. #69 |  MacK | 

    Damn Billy Beck you’re getting me all worked up!
    Shout it! Shout it out loud!

  70. #70 |  SayUncle » The report must match the tape | 

    [...] Only it doesn’t. [...]

  71. #71 |  Whim | 

    Whenever it is decided to strike back at the Oppressors, it will be easy:

    They generally wear UNIFORMS, and drive prominently Marked Cars.

    EASY targets. Surprise them coming off of donut or bathroom break.

    Just make sure you bring enough rope. Electrical conduit will do as a substitute.

  72. #72 |  shay | 

    SayUncle » The report must match the tape | August 7th, 2008 at 8:39 am
    [...] Only it doesn’t. [...]
    ““““““““““““““““`
    And it usually never does……………….

  73. #73 |  tde | 

    “Distaste for activist bikers” eh.

    Sort of like distaste for people who demand to see a lawyer instead of just cooperating with the cops the way that all honest people should do?

    Insisting on one’s rights? That kind of distasteful activity?

  74. #74 |  Frank | 

    #63

    The problem is that the chance approaches unity that the cops in question will get nothing more than a two week paid vacation for their wrongdoing, when what should have happened is that they should be in jail (general population).

    Oh, and in NY you are required to ID yourself to a police officer on demand. That does not necessarily mean show ID — stating name and DOB is enough to comply with the law.

  75. #75 |  Photography, Travel, and Freedom » NYPD vs. New Yorkers | 

    [...] Holy Shit. [...]

  76. #76 |  Andrew Williams | 

    Just out of curiousity, is anyone posting here a member of any police force in this or any other country?

    Whim, I’m looking in your direction…

  77. #77 |  HtownGuy | 

    From Harvey:

    My point is, if you’re going to flaunt your Constitutional rights, be prepared to suffer the consequences.

    Yeah, that’s pretty much what has us worked up these days….

  78. #78 |  Light | 

    Complain to the police commissioner Here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mailnypd.html

  79. #79 |  Whim | 

    The police are necessary, but need to be closely controlled by civil authorities.

    They are NOT under close control. They are mostly OUT OF CONTROL.

    They rarely suffer any consequences for severe abuse of authority.

    Their bane is the cell-phone camera. They hate an independent witness to their actions. Next, they’ll want cell-phone jammers like our military in Iraq have.

    I’m no policeman.

  80. #80 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    Whim: If you aren’t just trying to make Radley look bad, then your a plain nut job. Whatever you are, why don’t you try your local Indy Media site. They hate nuanced discussion as much as you do fuck nuts.

  81. #81 |  Dana | 

    The worst part about reading this is most of the riders in critical mass events (I rode just one) want the government to have more power over what we eat, our healthcare, etc. This is an example of what happens when the government has power. We are doomed

  82. #82 |  Helmut O' Hooligan | 

    #81 Dana:
    Yeah, that’s the “anarchist left” for you. I guess that’s why I moved in a libertarian direction–I don’t have a fetish for control freakery. I don’t know that we’re doomed though. All we can do is keep talking to people about this nonsense. With blogs like this and the decentralization of media that is occurring, thanks largely to the internet, its just getting harder for power abusers of all stripes to hide their dirty deeds. Keep your head up.

  83. #83 |  Harvey | 

    “Harvey so what you are saying is it is better to be an oppressed ass kisser, and show respect to the public servants (notice not public masters), even when it is not deserved (like a modern day slave to the establishment), then to stand up for your rights, and encourage others to fight the good fight?

    It seems like this may have been Benedict Arnold’s attitude also.
    Thank god many of the founding fathers had a stronger constitution, and risks their lives to stop the insane rule of King George III.”

    What I’m saying is, pick your battles wisely. Going by her reaction, Joyce Lin wasn’t ready to fight it and somewhere along the lines wasn’t told that cops sometimes don’t play by “the rules”. Her reaction is one of total naivety. Notice the other bikers who calmly accepted the circumstances. I’m not saying the cops were right because they weren’t, but those bikers picked their battles wisely.

    There seems to be a lot of bluster about how people would react and what they’d do in a cop’s face. That’s fine and all on the internet to other anonymous and like-minded people but how many of us here are ready to pick up a gun and fight to take this country back against such grevious Constitutional abuses? Last time, I checked the American Revolution wasn’t fought by riding bicycles and screaming and running away when oppressed and talking big on the internet. Are you ready for armed revolution? And who here will fire the first shot? Otherwise, it’s educating others on libertarian philosophy. Once I explain about libertarian ideals to people, they light up. If you’re not going to fight it in the streets than fight for the minds.

    Believe me, I’m with everybody on this NYPD travesty, but life experience has taught when and where to deal with the cops and what attitude I should take at the time. Whether it’s quoting the 4th Amendment to a police officer (and winning) or refusing to waive my right to a trial (also winning), there’s a time and a place. And if you do, be prepared to take the possible, maybe immediate consequences (and I was).

  84. #84 |  More NYPD Cops Gone Wild « Serf City | 

    [...] NYPD Cops Gone Wild Radley Balko has some additional footage of New York’s Finest behaving badly at last month’s Critical Mass [...]

  85. #85 |  Ben | 

    as for accepting the situation calmly harvey, I think the police would be a lot less eager to trample on constitutional rights if they got the shit beaten out of them by a mob every time one of these travesties occurs.

  86. #86 |  markm | 

    “My point is, if you’re going to flaunt your Constitutional rights, be prepared to suffer the consequences. Not everybody has read it. Most likely, they’re cops.”

    So, for us, ignorance of the law is no excuse, but it’s OK for someone who is paid to enforce the law to be ignorant of the land’s most basic law?

    Of course, our real beef isn’t with the cops, but with the courts and legislatures that grant them and their supervisors and departments qualified immunity and every conceivable benefit of the doubt – and more – even when there is no doubt whatsoever that a cop has perjured himself in a situation such as this, he won’t be prosecuted for perjury. If every time a cop detained someone or demanded ID without due cause, his bosses had to cough up $5,000, you’d bet they’d see their hired guns understood constitutional rights. If every time a cop was caught filing a false report to incriminate someone, his department was on the hook for six figures in damages and legal fees, any hint of testilying would become a firing offense. And if people recovered full damages for wrong-door raids, and drug raids inspired by lying informers, the police departments would probably discover that they just couldn’t afford the war on some drugs.

  87. #87 |  Harvey | 

    “as for accepting the situation calmly harvey, I think the police would be a lot less eager to trample on constitutional rights if they got the shit beaten out of them by a mob every time one of these travesties occurs.”

    There may be some truth in that but more than likely, you’d have gun-shy cops wasting people and having it found “justifiable”. Police union here in my town wants to have an internal shooting review board. Nice, huh?

    But also, as I asked before, who will be the first to fire the proverbial revolutionary shot or in this case, jump on a cop when he’s violating Constitutional rights. Those folks around Joyce Lin could only yell “police state” and “fascist”. Nobody jumped in.

    Depends on what kind of revolution you want. I think people really are waking up to things like this, but in the coming years, it may get more and more violent, which is something I wouldn’t prefer. In essence, that would make us as bad as the cops and the actions were discussing here. But then again, through violence is how we got this country and the words we’re supposed to live by today from our Founding Fathers. People got sick of their form of government and took to rebellion.

  88. #88 |  Shell Goddamnit | 

    Oh yes indeed I think that Joyce Lin’s screaming was deliberate. She did make a mistake in fighting physically however; just gives em an excuse to continue to press charges later instead of dismissing all.

    I think it’s good tactics. Don’t go quietly. Don’t struggle, gives em an excuse to taser or beat you, but scream your head off, scream bloody murder rapine & fire. It makes the cops VERY unhappy, and also, notice that in the video there is no concerted gathering of a crowd, no real rise in the threat level, until Joyce Lin starts screaming.

    I fully expect that there would follow a rash of arrests for screaming, but surely even in this climate that would be seen as going too far?

  89. #89 |  rob | 

    Let me see these people were arrested and assaulted for taking pictures.This is a discrace.The New York police department know that 911 was an inside job and they don’t even care that alot of their fellow officers suffered from the attack.That is a slap in the face of families of the victims.These pigs are joinning the communist movement,because they enjoy the power they have over the people.

  90. #90 |  John | 

    Anyone else notice the awful typo: Adjerned?

    “Oh, and in NY you are required to ID yourself to a police officer on demand. That does not necessarily mean show ID — stating name and DOB is enough to comply with the law.”

    And whether or not one knows this is no excuse to ignore an officer when she makes a request. “My name is ____ Lin. What seems to be the trouble, officer?” Cops aren’t pigs, inherently. A lot of them in this video were acting badly. On the same hand, if indeed the beginning of the vid shows bikers evading citation for traffic violations, well, that’s already an escalated situation and should be treated as such by the onlookers.

    By the way, constitutional rights really only have power in the court-room—on the street they exist as ad hoc heuristics on the same level as your basic ability to reason. There’s no reason to be confrontational with a cop if you know you’re acting legally.

    And just a thought: You know who’s gonna be enforcing new, more bicycle friendly street laws? Cops.

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