Which leads me to conclude that the people actually buying the products don’t need or want excellent service or knowledgeable salespeople.

Or those same people simply don’t know that these lumberyards offer superior service and advice. I certainly wouldn’t expect this. In my experience lumberyards are usually uninviting industrial-looking places filled with impatient contractors in big trucks. I don’t feel welcome.

The first case is a bad investment decision on the part of the lumberyard. They chose to spend money on “excellent” instead of “adequate” and priced themselves out of the market.

The second is a lack of advertising or bad public image. Many customers will spend a few extra bucks if they’re getting something out of it. They need to convince those customers that the benefits to them outweigh the cost. Sadly it seems that many local businesses have never had to compete against a real adversary and have no real interest in leaning.

There–I just insulted everybody!

I am now King of All Media!!!

Well, Wal-Mart does use despicable tactics against manufacturers…

I have heard this many times before but I have yet to see it in action. What is “despicable” about asking suppliers to meet a target price? If the supplier cannot, they don’t get the contract with WalMart. It is really that simple**. If nobody can meet the price then WalMart either has to renegotiate or not carry the product (last time you saw a Prada bag in Wally World?). If a company does not get a contract with WalMart, they are not in any worse shape than before they submitted the proposal though future earnings are harder if a competitor* gets a large contract.

Additionally, there are stores other than WalMart, albeit none as large, to sell product to. It’s when companies make bad business decisions (see Rubbermaid’s over expansion 10yrs ago) to satisfy WalMart or other distributor rather than saying “no” that causes problems for the company.

* See, this whole competition thing, that’s capitalism in action. Companies compete on many different levels to get the best product (whether physical or service oriented) to the customer at the best price for the quality.
** This is the same principal you use in your day to day transactions as well. I don’t care how nice a stereo sounds, if I can’t afford it I am not going to buy it. Sometimes companies realize that and renegotiate (lower the price). Sometimes they can’t (or won’t) lower the price and I am left longing for that nice Bang & Olufsen that I will never have. Sometimes they can’t or won’t lower the price and don’t have enough customer’s to stay in business (Auburn/Cord/Dusenberg).

Well, Wal-Mart does use despicable tactics against manufacturers, but they are one of the few retailers willing to open in “the hood”.

Wal-mart won’t carry products unless they’re getting the lowest possible price from the manufacturer. I fail to see how that’s despicable.

This particular councilwoman is just anti business. But it’s not like anyone will vote her out of office.

Ask an employee and they’ll tell you that “Mom and Pop” stores = no advancement opportunity coupled with skinflint employers. You also get the added benefit of listening to them whine about how they never make any money. That’s to prep the employeee for the inevitable no when they ask for a cost of living raise.

Hey Matt, ever work in an auto plant? It’s tough work. Now if you’re a mindless drone who doesn’t care to run bad parts that may fail and kill people driving your product some day, sure, manufacturing jobs don’t require much in the way of intelligence. If you take pride in your work and want your company’s products to enjoy a good reputation – well then the story is different.

Check the context of my comment. I was arguing with a guy that said we were losing all the jobs that dumb people could do to other countries.

Also, arguing that American car companies took pride in their work and made cars that didn’t fail is silly, since reliability is one of the areas where Detroit couldn’t compete with Japan.

wal-mart doesn’t abuse eminent domain; elected officials do on wal-mart’s behalf. if those elected officials have made it known they are willing to give goodies out to other special interests, wal-mart would be foolish not to ask. it is your local government that deserves the scorn. if your wife has an affair with another man, who deserves the most blame: your wife or the other man? does anyone really believe that a punch to the nose of the other man is going to make sure it never happens again?

“As for labor unions – isn’t this just another function of capitalism? Workers banding together to extort better pay and benefits from the guys up top – to me that seems like free market principles in action via the labor market.”

If you accept the functions of capitalism, then you should understand when GM says “fuck you” to the labor union in favor of lowering their production costs.

“The big three dropped the ball because their operations were governed by incompetent suits – these guys forgot that their #1 customers were employees. Why they thought their employees would hold on to their brand loyalties after said employees’ companies dropped them like hot slag in exchange for sweet sweet cheap mexican labor is beyond me.”

If what you say is true – that GM will loose its #1 customers as a result of these bad decisions – then GM will suffer financially.

Diversity is good. Forcing diversity out with 1% margins on lower cost (volume not profit lol) is bad.

You seem to think that axiom is somehow set in stone, but it isn’t.

The failing yards offer excellent service and knowledgable sales people, things Lowes can and will not provide. Yet these businesses are dying. They can’t touch Lowe’s prices.

I guess that excellent service and knowledgeable salespeople aren’t worth as much to other consumers as they are to you. Or maybe Lowes service isn’t as bad as you think.

As to labor unions, the free market went out the window with the passing of labor laws. Don’t mistakenly think that our corporatist system closely resembles the free market.

On behalf of a recently licensed Pennsylvania attorney (who also can’t find a job), why don’t you take your blue-collar working-man nobility down to the bar and have a few pints and cry there about how much pride you took in de-burring car frames.

In your post you compare Wal-mart, Home Depot, Lowes, and the store you work at. How much more diverse would that picture be if Wal-mart hadn’t “destroyed” it?

I understand what you’re saying, but here’s the thing. Back a year ago, there was no Home Depot or Lowes within 25 miles of here. There were several independent lumberyards around. Three that I can think of off the top of my head. All three are hurting BAD right now. Between the housing crunch and the fact that Lowes opened up a couple miles down the road, there’s a good chace that they will go out of business. The failing yards offer excellent service and knowledgable sales people, things Lowes can and will not provide. Yet these businesses are dying. They can’t touch Lowe’s prices.

In our case, we’re not hurting because we’ve been in a niche market for almost 30 years. Lowes won’t come after our customers because we supply product (we specialize in sheetrock and such) in oddball sizes that lowes can’t profit from. We were lucky.

Look at small independent donut shops. There used to be three in the town next door to mine. Now there’s three Dunkin Donuts and no independent shops.

Diversity is good. Forcing diversity out with 1% margins on lower cost (volume not profit lol) is bad.

Hey Matt, ever work in an auto plant? It’s tough work. Now if you’re a mindless drone who doesn’t care to run bad parts that may fail and kill people driving your product some day, sure, manufacturing jobs don’t require much in the way of intelligence. If you take pride in your work and want your company’s products to enjoy a good reputation – well then the story is different.

As for labor unions – isn’t this just another function of capitalism? Workers banding together to extort better pay and benefits from the guys up top – to me that seems like free market principles in action via the labor market.

On behalf of the Michigan auto-worker who can’t find a job now: Take your little economic theories and your hard-on for sweatshop labor, get back up on your high horse, ride out into the sunset, and promptly go fuck yourself.

You’ll never see me driving a ford or GM car.

“A lot of manufacturing is indeed coming back to the United States because the cost of producing products in China for sale in the U.S. is increasing because of energy costs and inflation. That’s not the point. The point is that job loss in our market is never a good thing, unless it is the result of real creative destruction such as taxi drivers replacing buggy drivers. Outsourcing hardly qualifies as creative destruction”

MikeT, thank you for stating this so eloquently. As a former Detroiter, most of the men in my family have lost their jobs at Ford/Chrysler/GM due to this “creative destruction”. (And by the way, a mexican manufactured automobile components are crap quality) so I have a hard time being a cheerleader for outsourcing. Biased? You betcha.

Most of the men in my family are just too old for “Retraining”. I got lucky because I saw what was happening to the manufacturing sector in Michigan and decided I wanted no part of that scene, so I enrolled in college. My dad, uncle, brother, grandfather, etc. don’t really have this option.

The big three dropped the ball because their operations were governed by incompetent suits – these guys forgot that their #1 customers were employees. Why they thought their employees would hold on to their brand loyalties after said employees’ companies dropped them like hot slag in exchange for sweet sweet cheap mexican labor is beyond me.

The sad thing about when this kind of shit goes on is that it’s the floor workers that suffer. The guys who cause all the trouble to the companies are rarely held accountable. When the bigwigs screw up bad enough that they are relieved of their duties they get sweetheart deal golden parachutes for their troubles.

I weep for American capitalism.