TheAgitator.com
The Starving Obese
Sunday, July 20th, 2008I don’t mean to mock these two women, but if NPR’s point is to show how the economy and high gas prices are making working Americans go hungry, you’d think they’d have come up with better subjects than two obese women, one of whom at age 40 has never held a job.
As one commenter at Fark rather astutely pointed out, there’s American “hungry,” and then there’s rest-of-the-world “hungry.”
I’ve heard the “starving obese” argument before–that poorer Americans’ only option tends to be calorie-rich, nutrient-poor food from convenience stores and fast food restaurants. I’ve also explained why (a) I don’t think that’s true, and (b) why the same public health activists who make that argument tend to be rabidly opposed to the most proven way to get low-cost produce to low-income people.
But it looks like with these two women, the “no access to fresh food” argument doesn’t apply, either.
I’m not exactly sure what point NPR’s making in profiling them.
Consider the extent to which local, state, and the federal government distorts markets for food, and it’s easy to see why the “starving obese” argument makes sense. Here are a few…
1. Farm subsidies. They cheapen foods like soybeans and corn, which are most often used to feed animals. In a way, these are just meat inputs. This cheapens meat compared to foods that don’t receive subsidies – produce.
2. Health licensing regulations. These make it expensive for small business owners (think: old ladies, immigrants) to open informal food stalls, and make the market more amenable to chain stores like McDonald’s and Burger King who have the legal departments and big pockets to absorb the high cost of entry that food licensing imposes.
The food link doesn’t go directly to the data.
2004 data http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aib790/
2004 table of fruit and vegetable costs http://www.ers.usda.gov/Data/FruitVegetableCosts/
Looking at these I would imagine the bigger problem is the quantity eaten. I don’t much care for fruits and vegetables but 7 servings wouldn’t go very far towards filling me up. And the cost per calorie of refillable soft drinks (greatest invention of last half-century?) can be pretty low compared to the tables above.
jah
, there’s American “hungry,” and then there’s rest-of-the-world “hungry.”
See also this storyfrom America’s Finest News Source
‘they don’t buy extras like ice cream anymore’
like radley, i am not trying to mock these two, but in my opinion, they shouldn’t be eating ice cream at all.
on another note, i think a big part of them not being able to find jobs is because of their weight.
walmart is the best way to get low-cost produce to people?!?!
Ever hear of a farmers market Radley?
farmers markets in the city are rarely bargains
a few weeks ago i saw celery for $1 (little more than half of Von’s grocery store)
but oranges and peaches were at least 3 or 4 times grocery price
Groceries at Wal-Mart are much less expensive than anywhere else. I have many major supermarkets ( at least 4-5) within a few miles of my home and have been to them all. It isn’t even close. Sometimes certain places will have weekly “card” specials that are good deals, but rarely produce.
The selection isn’t always the best and sometimes the freshness leaves something to be desired, but for the cost you can certainly find something there to eat.
I remember going to Farmer’s markets ( not in the city) and they were good if you wanted a specific item and wanted to pay for premium quality. For example I really liked the peaches there and chose to pay a premium for a premium product. it’s not where I would go for something to eat if I were starving or on a limited budget.
Ever hear of a farmers market Radley?
Yes, I have. And I love farmers’ markets. But it’s awfully silly to think they’re a substitute for a large grocery store. It just isn’t practical.
You aren’t going to feed entire inner cities with farmers’ markets. Scaled stores like Wal-Mart can also sell staples like flour, milk, butter, etc. at a lower cost — stuff you normally can’t get at a farmers’ market.
Farmers’ markets also aren’t all that reliable. A store like Wal-Mart lines up multiple suppliers in case one part of the country has a bad harvest on a given item.
Also, I don’t know about where you live, but around here farmers’ markets close in November, when all the food’s been harvested.
Then what?
I’m also not all that certain that farmers’ markets are actually cheaper than a Walmart Supercenter.
Farmers markets are certainly not less expensive than Walmart. They’re not even cheaper than my local grocery store. And they go from June to October here in Chicago. Enjoy the 7 months of fast food tomatoes as your source of produce, if you live in a true food desert (like much of the south side of Chicago)…
FMs are a non-issue. If transportation and gas are a concern, you are going to make the fewest stops possible to get everything you need at the cheapest price….Wal-Mart. I hate ‘em but if I had to shop at an actual grocery store, I would have to get an actual job! *shudder* :P
I’ve often commented that poverty in America is defined as “I can’t have everything I want”, whereas the rest of the world it means “I can’t meet my basic needs”.
These women might also be able to get jobs if they simply tried. Note at the end of the article they give a laundry list of reasons that they might not even be able to have a job if they tried. So then those become reasons to not try to get a job.
In my rural area of Michigan, the farmer’s market is usually evenly priced with the grocery stores. If you want it cheaper, you have to swing by the stands some farmers have in front of their homes. Those are great quality and price, but only if 1) they are on the way, so you are not paying a gallon of gas for one item and 2) you need the one to three items that they have that week. Plus, since we are in Michigan, I’ve yet to see one selling anything but straw yet this year. And they will all be closed on November 1. So they are great, if you live in a rural area, they are on your existing route, the item you want is in season, and it’s in the 1/3 of the year they are open. Not a good long term strategy.
But I must admit that I frequent them from the day they open. Better produce, spending locally, nice people, and no cheeseball music. :)
My argument inst necessarily based on the price of groceries. I know that you tend to favor a laissez faire approach to the economy, but i really do think that we would be alot better off ditching walmart in favor of supporting local farmers.
I know that in many cities this may be much more difficult. I have the benefit of living in Wisconsin, our farmers markets are great and you can get huge deals compared to the grocery. And it’s not inconvenient. Also you’re helping out one of the few farmers left that isnt growing shitty-ass corn for a govt subsidy.
Wal-Mart pisses me off. No matter what i cant see them as the good guy. I actually remember a time when there was a hardware store, and a grocery, and a outdoor goods store, a furniture store, a haberdasher, a shoe store, and craft store, and all of the other small businesses a wal-mart replaces. Those proprietors worked hard and had a place in society. Maybe its worthwhile to pay more for goods and support your real community! After all, sales tax doesn’t help pay a working mans wage.
What few people seem to realize is that NPR and PBS are part of a decades long Performance Art piece on the absurdity of the entire concept of “Unbiased Media”. I’m sure that more subtle details will be revealed when the piece is over (maybe when funding is cut?), but the general outline seems to be to establish a farcical dichotomy: a Government funded news service that is reflexively and rabidly against its host country. Sort of Pravda on bad acid.
When I was on a limited income (a long, long time) my dollar stretched a lot further at the BK than it did at the grocery store on average, at least for the healthier foods. It was only after I started making some decent money that I was able to start regularly buying and eating better foods. Those studies that say fresh fruits and vegatables are cheaper? I don’t know, i just find that hard to believe based on my experience.
As for Wal-Mart, I’m not reflexively a hater (I used to love the place) but I got to say that once all the smaller shops and businesses are gone, you start to realize just how poor its selection really is in many cases. It’s like the old Onion article: “Coke discontinues all drink sizes except 32 gallon size. Says spokesman: ‘Sure it’s inconvienant for the customer, but what are they going to do, not drink Coke? Right.’ ”
As for NPR and PBS, I admit to seeing a bias, but it is no where near as bad as the bias I see on the big news networks. I find much of its programming superior to most anything on CNN, fox, or the major networks. Would a completely free market PBS/NPR be as good or better? Well, that’s the theory, but the aforementioned networks don’t fill me with hope.
I’m a bit left without words…
If NPR wants me to feel sorry for a fellow Ohioan who cannot cope with rising costs, it would be better the profiled people have actually TRIED to support themselves over the years, and not been on govt assistance.
This isn’t a sad story of poverty… it is a PSA on the result of being un/under-educated, fat and lazy.
People tell Nunez her daughter could get more money in public assistance if she had a child.
“A lot of people have told me, ‘Why don’t your daughter have a kid?’”
That pretty much sums up the problem with welfare, it doesn’t just help people who’ve made mistakes or fallen on hard times, it CAUSES people to make “mistakes”.
I think this whole “food is too expensive” thing is BS. People are lazy. They don’t want to think about it. I can easily feed my family of 4 a good healthy diet on less then $200 a month. All it takes is planning, and a willingness to put in a little work.
On the other hand… I can see how it may be difficult to find a job. I’m highly qualified, with plenty off good recommendations, and it took me over 2 months to find a job after I got laid off of the last one. (Totally unheard of for me!) It’s tough out there right now.
A group always gets more of what it subsidizes, less of what it taxes. Work is taxed, childbearing is subsidized. People recognize the subsidy and respond to it, education is not necessary for subsidy recognition.
I love the link below the picture on the NPR site… enlarge!
[...] Radley Balko, I’ve learned of an NPR story that seriously fails to generate much sympathy. Titled [...]
“I’m not exactly sure what point NPR’s making in profiling them.”
Perhaps the point they make is that some folks at NPR are clueless? Or that they are so bleeding-hearted they can’t get beyond it?
I’m not exactly sure what point NPR’s making in profiling them.
That this is how “real” people think and operate. If NPR looked harder, they could’ve probably found more sympathetic characters; skinnier, better sob story, a more polished speaker, etc… and then slapped some vaseline on the lens and gone for the heartstrings like a Diane Sawyer (“today’s Diane Sawyer she gets high* on you, personal space she’ll invade then she’ll cry on you”). Yeah they’re flawed, but they’re as good an illustration as any of the “starving obese”.
WalMart may be a viable option for people in suburban or rural areas who have a vehicle, but they’re almost never in a city or near public transportation around here.
*ratings
“But it looks like with these two women, the “no access to fresh food” argument doesn’t apply, either.”
Really, Radley!!
I looked at that map you supplied and Fostoria is at least 10 or 15 miles from the nearest Walmart. How do you expect these women to get to that Walmart to get their groceries? On the grand scheme of things it is fairly close, but not if you don’t have a car or public transportation.
What they really should do is start a food coop. Grow food in a coop garden with some other people. Or see if they can carpool with others to Walmart once a week. Did you know you can buy seeds for a garden with food stamps? These women need the exercise anyway. Gardening is great exercise. Not only that it would get them doing something and make them feel productive. Lots of times when people are stuck in bad situations it is hard for them to feel like they have any control over their lives and this would be a great way for them to be able to have some kind of control.
Annemg – Will you please come do my grocery shopping for me? We’re apparently not so great at list making! Of course, in college I really only spent about $100 a month on food for myself at the grocery, so I’m going to blame my girlfriend :-).
Here in San Antonio there are a few major structural problems for folks in the slums.
1) They lack transit and the public transit here sucks. In the impoverished areas of town it can take over two hours one way to the nearest decent grocery. Do you have five hours to spend grocery shopping? I don’t. There are some neighborhood bodegas and things, but that kind of leads us into
2) The food culture isn’t particularly healthy here, especially in low-income areas. A lot of tex-mex really is delicious, but is also extremely calorie dense. It’s the same food people have been cooking and eating for generations, rice and beans go a long way. That kind of thing isn’t an issue when you’re doing physical labor, but when you’re mostly sedantary you’re going to get fat. And fresh fruits/vegetables aren’t on the radar for some folks in those areas of town.
3) In addition, a lot of folks in those neighborhoods don’t have much of an idea what to do with fresh fruits and vegetables. No idea how to cook them, no idea that they can be good. That kind of thing is a new introduction to their diet – remember the first time you ate, say, Indian food? Did you look at the menu and try to guess what things were? If you’re a naturally adventurous eater it was probably not too bad, but if (like me) you’ve had to work up to adventurous eating over the years then it might’ve been kind of scary. Fresh vegetables are that way to some people.
4) As a result, the groceries in those neighborhoods often carry lower quality produce. HEB is the only grocery game in town other than the Wal-Mart and Target super centers so they can get away with it. Some med students I know were pretty shocked to find a paltry selection of moldy and rotting fuits, so was I. It’s not really a conspiracy (if they don’t think it’ll sell, why would the HEB stock their quality produce there?) but it is a problem. Further, Wal-Mart and Target are often a long way out of those neighborhoods so see #1.
That combination of factors along with social pressures not to change (from their neighbors and friends) can make it pretty difficult for folks in low-income areas to improve their health. The health science center here is working with Good Samaritan in the neighborhood to start the process of changing some of those things, but it takes awhile. In the mean time, the folks in the neighborhood keep eating at the Malt House where you can get a burger, fries and a tea for $2.95.
I may be a bad person, but when I saw the ‘For Some Ohioans, Even Meat is Out of Reach’ with that picture under it, my first thought was a mental image of one of those women sitting at a table with a big steak in front of them, desperately trying to reach it, but being unable to do so because their gut won’t let them move close enough for their arms to reach it.
Blaming Wal-mart for the collapse of haberdashery is a bit rich.
Wal-mart employees work hard and have a place in society.
Maybe it’s not worthwhile to pay more for goods out of a sense of nostalgia.
Wal-mart pays their employees, you know. In fact, I’d bet that Wal-mart pays better and offers more benefits than the mom and pop store it replaced.
When I moved back from NC to FL in 2006, I was 199 pounds. Within no time I was up to 240. In NC, I had no car and had to walk everywhere I went. I ate philly cheese steaks, meatball subs and stopped by the local pub for at least 3 beers a night. Not the healthiest diet but it proves that it’s the exercise that makes a difference. These ladies obviously don’t exercise and by the attitude in the piece, really don’t care to. I don’t feel sorry for their plight one bit. Walk a bit, get a job and bring yourself up.
As far as a food co-op, good luck. I had a friend who in college was a big liberal idealist and Food Not Bombs member. He actively tried to work with the inner city communities to set up co-ops and such but they had no interest or more importantly, they didn’t want to work at bettering their situation and community. While he didn’t turn into a big conservative (he’s too smart for that), he got more than a little disillusioned. If these people don’t want to take care of themselves, fine, but don’t expect a handout to subsidize your shitty lifestyle.
I should add that I’ve gotten MY lazy ass up and started walking and swimming at the local pool more. Lost 5 pounds in two weeks.
Matt ref # 27
You do know how many times Wal-Mart has been sued for failing to pay its workers overtime/unaided work time/too few hours per week to qualify for any benefits. It is often an un-written rule at Wal-Mart’s to only allow people to work 28.5 hours a week so that they dont have to give any workers (other then management) any sort of benefits. But dont let some of the facts get in your way of Wal-Mart love.
I’ve worked at Wal-Mart. The benefits and pay really weren’t that good. It beat being unemployed, no doubt. It also beat working as a customer service rep for visa. Still, I can think of several reasons why working for a small business might be better, even if the pay is the same or somewhat worse.