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	<title>Comments on: Appeals Court Rules in Rack &#8216;n&#8217; Roll Billiards Case</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: David Ruttenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-155648</link>
		<dc:creator>David Ruttenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 06:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-155648</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Norm,

I appreciate the chance to talk with you.
My email is david@rnrclub.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Norm,</p>
<p>I appreciate the chance to talk with you.<br />
My email is <a href="mailto:david@rnrclub.com">david@rnrclub.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Norm Bradford</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-154568</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm Bradford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 20:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-154568</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Get me Ruttenberg&#039;s coordinates and I&#039;ll see about representing him pro bono]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get me Ruttenberg&#8217;s coordinates and I&#8217;ll see about representing him pro bono</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Matt Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-151944</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 04:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-151944</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#15, #17 - There was also an off-track betting site the city was trying to attract  the strip mall where Ruttenberg&#039;s bar is located. He had some deal in his lease that would have made the city pay him 6 or 7 figures if new development caused his bar to close.

Evidently they didn&#039;t want to pay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#15, #17 &#8211; There was also an off-track betting site the city was trying to attract  the strip mall where Ruttenberg&#8217;s bar is located. He had some deal in his lease that would have made the city pay him 6 or 7 figures if new development caused his bar to close.</p>
<p>Evidently they didn&#8217;t want to pay.</p>
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		<title>By: Linda Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-151453</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-151453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;&quot;Someone please remind me why they are so out to get Ruttenberg?&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

A couple of excerpts from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theagitator.com/2006/02/20/the-rack-n-roll-billiards-raid/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Radley&#039;s 2/20/06 post&lt;/a&gt; about this case:

&lt;em&gt;Prior to the raid, Rack n’ Roll Billiards had a spotless, 18-year record with ABC. David Ruttenberg has no criminal record, nor does his father Neil, who’s a partner in the club. David’s brother, and Neil’s son, is the incoming president of the Fairfax Bar Association. Neil says he had a top-secret security clearance with the U.S. government up until 2000. He has a JD from Columbia, and has been practicing law for 40 years. His daughter is a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy reserves, and served in both Gulf Wars. This isn’t a shady family. It’s difficult to see what reason police would have had to target David Ruttenberg or the bar he runs in a drug raid...

...One reason the Ruttenbergs suspect David Ruttenberg is being targeted, believe it or not, goes back a few years to a time when Ruttenberg and a Manassas Park police officer were romantically interested in the same woman. That officer apparently nursed a grudge against Ruttenberg, and is now the head of the narcotics task force that serves Manassas Park. They also suspect that once the raid failed, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars to taxpayers, Manassas Park police became determined to justify the raid by continually pursuing David Ruttenberg until they could find a reason to arrest him.&lt;/em&gt;

I haven&#039;t been following closely since then, so I don&#039;t know if other theories have emerged to eclipse this one, but I found it interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>&#8220;Someone please remind me why they are so out to get Ruttenberg?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>A couple of excerpts from <a href="http://www.theagitator.com/2006/02/20/the-rack-n-roll-billiards-raid/" rel="nofollow">Radley&#8217;s 2/20/06 post</a> about this case:</p>
<p><em>Prior to the raid, Rack n’ Roll Billiards had a spotless, 18-year record with ABC. David Ruttenberg has no criminal record, nor does his father Neil, who’s a partner in the club. David’s brother, and Neil’s son, is the incoming president of the Fairfax Bar Association. Neil says he had a top-secret security clearance with the U.S. government up until 2000. He has a JD from Columbia, and has been practicing law for 40 years. His daughter is a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy reserves, and served in both Gulf Wars. This isn’t a shady family. It’s difficult to see what reason police would have had to target David Ruttenberg or the bar he runs in a drug raid&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230;One reason the Ruttenbergs suspect David Ruttenberg is being targeted, believe it or not, goes back a few years to a time when Ruttenberg and a Manassas Park police officer were romantically interested in the same woman. That officer apparently nursed a grudge against Ruttenberg, and is now the head of the narcotics task force that serves Manassas Park. They also suspect that once the raid failed, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars to taxpayers, Manassas Park police became determined to justify the raid by continually pursuing David Ruttenberg until they could find a reason to arrest him.</em></p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t been following closely since then, so I don&#8217;t know if other theories have emerged to eclipse this one, but I found it interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: AV</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-151367</link>
		<dc:creator>AV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-151367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s my question also. What&#039;s in it for the police to run this pool hall out of business?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s my question also. What&#8217;s in it for the police to run this pool hall out of business?</p>
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		<title>By: Adam W.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150909</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Someone please remind me why they are so out to get Ruttenberg?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone please remind me why they are so out to get Ruttenberg?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150805</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150805</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A very specific example of why our founding fathers created the second amendment!

 &quot;America is at that awkward stage. It&#039;s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.&quot;

IS IT?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very specific example of why our founding fathers created the second amendment!</p>
<p> &#8220;America is at that awkward stage. It&#8217;s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.&#8221;</p>
<p>IS IT?</p>
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		<title>By: j.d.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150725</link>
		<dc:creator>j.d.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 18:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[^ it&#039;s not about affording. no amount of money could have given ruttenberg the justice in the courts that he deserves. it&#039;s about up versus down.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>^ it&#8217;s not about affording. no amount of money could have given ruttenberg the justice in the courts that he deserves. it&#8217;s about up versus down.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150618</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 15:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also have been following this story since it first appeared in this blog. 

Justice is only for those who can afford it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also have been following this story since it first appeared in this blog. </p>
<p>Justice is only for those who can afford it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150275</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 05:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Radley - 

Might you be able to interest the Institute for Justice in this case?  It seems like the sort of case they should be interested in, and on the bonus side, they are very local.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radley &#8211; </p>
<p>Might you be able to interest the Institute for Justice in this case?  It seems like the sort of case they should be interested in, and on the bonus side, they are very local.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Moore</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150166</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 03:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there a corollary of Godwin&#039;s Law for off-topic arguments about Terri Schiavo?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a corollary of Godwin&#8217;s Law for off-topic arguments about Terri Schiavo?</p>
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		<title>By: supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150150</link>
		<dc:creator>supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150150</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[//Murder? LOL….//

Terri&#039;s parents claim that she was capable of receiving fluids orally.  Michael Schiavo claims that she wasn&#039;t.  He forbade any attempt at oral hydration because his doctors said she would be likely to aspirate on any fluids given.  It should be noted that she was able to swallow the saliva she produced, so she is known to have had at least some swallowing ability.

Florida state law forbids the denial of oral sustenance to someone who will starve or dehydrate without it.  Perhaps attempting to administer oral sustenance to Terri would have worked, perhaps not.  I cannot imagine any harm it could have done if it didn&#039;t work (Terri would end up neither more nor less dead); the consequence if it did work might have greatly annoyed Mr. Schiavo et al., but could not legally be regarded as harm.

Why were Mr. Schiavo et al. so adamant that she be denied oral sustenance?  If she was capable of receiving it, such denial was murder.  If she wasn&#039;t capable, why not allow the parents to try?  If they failed, his hands would be clean.  The most logical reason that comes to mind for his insistence that Terri not receive oral sustenance is not that he thought it wouldn&#039;t work, but because he feared that it might.  Smells like murder to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>//Murder? LOL….//</p>
<p>Terri&#8217;s parents claim that she was capable of receiving fluids orally.  Michael Schiavo claims that she wasn&#8217;t.  He forbade any attempt at oral hydration because his doctors said she would be likely to aspirate on any fluids given.  It should be noted that she was able to swallow the saliva she produced, so she is known to have had at least some swallowing ability.</p>
<p>Florida state law forbids the denial of oral sustenance to someone who will starve or dehydrate without it.  Perhaps attempting to administer oral sustenance to Terri would have worked, perhaps not.  I cannot imagine any harm it could have done if it didn&#8217;t work (Terri would end up neither more nor less dead); the consequence if it did work might have greatly annoyed Mr. Schiavo et al., but could not legally be regarded as harm.</p>
<p>Why were Mr. Schiavo et al. so adamant that she be denied oral sustenance?  If she was capable of receiving it, such denial was murder.  If she wasn&#8217;t capable, why not allow the parents to try?  If they failed, his hands would be clean.  The most logical reason that comes to mind for his insistence that Terri not receive oral sustenance is not that he thought it wouldn&#8217;t work, but because he feared that it might.  Smells like murder to me.</p>
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		<title>By: j.d.</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150149</link>
		<dc:creator>j.d.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 01:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[when good, decent, law-abiding citizens are harassed, prosecuted, defamed, and financially ruined by the government, who are they to turn to?

where does the long-stretch of civility become...something a little more? how long should a man endure this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>when good, decent, law-abiding citizens are harassed, prosecuted, defamed, and financially ruined by the government, who are they to turn to?</p>
<p>where does the long-stretch of civility become&#8230;something a little more? how long should a man endure this?</p>
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		<title>By: annemg</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150070</link>
		<dc:creator>annemg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:09:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Murder?  LOL....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Murder?  LOL&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Krueger</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150063</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Krueger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150063</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; say: &quot;Even if we don&#039;t have enough to convict, we can still destroy their lives.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As <i>they</i> say: &#8220;Even if we don&#8217;t have enough to convict, we can still destroy their lives.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150061</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[there&#039;s huge irony every time Paul Ebert says, &#039;The people vs...&#039; with his track record of serving citizens.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>there&#8217;s huge irony every time Paul Ebert says, &#8216;The people vs&#8230;&#8217; with his track record of serving citizens.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sydney Carton</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150057</link>
		<dc:creator>Sydney Carton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 20:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150057</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[tarran,

For me, it was the forced starvation and murder of Terry Schaivo that did it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tarran,</p>
<p>For me, it was the forced starvation and murder of Terry Schaivo that did it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150051</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150051</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sidney,

Not since the courts handed down death sentences for some of the conspirators in Shay&#039;s rebellion can you say that the courts have protected you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sidney,</p>
<p>Not since the courts handed down death sentences for some of the conspirators in Shay&#8217;s rebellion can you say that the courts have protected you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sydney Carton</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150041</link>
		<dc:creator>Sydney Carton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It reads completely like a sham decision.  They&#039;re going to get away with it.

You can&#039;t trust that the courts in this country will protect you anymore.  You have to assume they won&#039;t.  Judges are completely politicized and don&#039;t give a crap about protecting people&#039;s rights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It reads completely like a sham decision.  They&#8217;re going to get away with it.</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t trust that the courts in this country will protect you anymore.  You have to assume they won&#8217;t.  Judges are completely politicized and don&#8217;t give a crap about protecting people&#8217;s rights.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tritone</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/07/12/appeals-court-rules-in-rack-n-roll-billiards-case/comment-page-1/#comment-150035</link>
		<dc:creator>Tritone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 19:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/?p=10270#comment-150035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been following this case since I started reading The Agitator, and I have to say it&#039;s one of the more saddening stories, not simply because this type of harassment can occur but because it can go on for months or years with seemingly no consequences for the police officers and city officials involved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been following this case since I started reading The Agitator, and I have to say it&#8217;s one of the more saddening stories, not simply because this type of harassment can occur but because it can go on for months or years with seemingly no consequences for the police officers and city officials involved.</p>
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