TheAgitator.com
First, They Came for Michael Medved. And I Didn’t Speak Up, Because Michael Medved Is an Enormous Douche
Thursday, June 12th, 2008Across the street from its massive Holocaust memorial, Berlin recently opened up a modest memorial to the approximately 10,000 homosexuals killed by Hitler. Such "moral equivalence" has Michael Medved all hot and bothered:
This commemoration follows a longstanding, misleading attempt to depict homosexuals as prime targets of Hitler. In fact, even historical material released with the memorial noted only “an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 gay men deported to concentration camps” –and by no means all of them were killed. While homosexuals surely outnumbered the less-than-one-percent of the German population that was Jewish, Jewish victims of Nazi death camps outnumbered estimated gay victims by more than 500 to 1. Persecution of any group deserves condemnation and remembrance, but it’s wrong to exaggerate the extent of victimization for politically correct P.R. purposes.
The infamous Paragraph 175 of the Reichstage Code also allowed for the castration of thousands more homosexuals. But let’s have a look at this memorial that Medved says is indicative of efforts to "depict homosexuals as prime targets of Hitler," over Jews. Here’s an aerial shot of the main Holocaust memorial in Berlin. It consists of 2,711 stone slabs. For comparison, note the size of the memorial next to the people walking around the outside of it:
Here’s a photo of the new homosexual memorial, which consists of a single concrete slab located across the street:
Is he going for a disproportionate outrage award?
ONLY killed 10-15k.
How many dead does it take to actually matter? If it’s homosexuals it never matters?
I like the title of this post.
Medved needs to go back to reviewing movies.
The machinery of the Holocaust ate Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Insane, Antisocials, Jews, Gypsies, and Homosexuals all the same. (Yes, I missed someone on the list, I’m sure. Catholic monks, I believe). Just because it’s easier to hide one’s homosexuality than it is to hide one’s Jewishness doesn’t mean that we should ignore their persecution any more or less.
The backlash against Political Correctness seems to give some people a license to be complete douchebags, doesn’t it?
There simply has to have been a Homosexual Gypsy Catholic named Hugo who was Allergic to Peanut Butter in the numbers somewhere, and someone oughta demand his memorial, goddammit.
You peoples’ insensitivity is appalling.
Kinda of makes you wonder how big the memorial is going to have to be after the state of Israel is eventually obliterated by nuclear war, the inevitable outcome of their deciding to relocate their residence to a patch of land occupied and surrounded by people who are inconsolably pissed off about being forcibly dislocated simply because someone else’s god in partnership with the western powers and UN said so.
And I won’t even mention the size of the Arab memorial that will be required.
All for a strategically valueless chunk of Mediterranean beach front.
Was anyone else confused by the seemingly anonymous boxy enclosure around the gay memorial? You have to be of adult height to even see inside. Is there one of those “public displays of affection” going on inside there or something? The box have some symbolic meaning.
So let’s see if I have Medved’s thinking about right. The memory 3000 dead on 9/11 gives the U.S. a sacred duty to conquer and remake the middle east, but 10,000 dead gay men can’t have a small stone monument? C’mon, Mikey! Just come out and say they deserved death being gay! You know you want to.
On a side note, I find something suspicious about a man who crusades against “teh gay” while wearing that mustache. It’s like something Jack Chick would draw.
he just wishes those homos wouldn’t throw it in his face… they wanna get married, they wanna parade, they wanna build a memorial… what’s a fundamentalist straight stud to do?
“Medved needs to go back to reviewing movies.”
No, he really doesn’t.
Remember when memorials were not unadorned blocks of concrete? Although I guess we should be thankful it’s not a representation of goatse.
Sorry, sorry, give me the thumbs down I so richly deserve.
While I regret the fact that memorials are often used as political footballs, I hate Medved even more. So much more.
The guy started out on PBS as one of the replacements for Siskel and Ebert, and when his career (and reputation) didn’t hit the big time like his peers, he took it very, very poorly.
Everything he says and writes is the result of a frustrated ego, and that’s…sad, I guess, but also pretty fucking typical.
All I can say is, that memorial is hardly ‘fabulous’.
“In fact, even historical material released with the memorial noted only ‘an estimated 10,000 to 15,000 gay men deported to concentration camps’ –and by no means all of them were killed.”
Well thank God they only killed a handful, Medved. Besides, everyone knows the concentration camps were a hoot. Think of all the fun those that didn’t die had!
Ass.
[...] Radley Balko’s new post is brilliant: First, They Came for Michael Medved. And I Didn’t Speak Up, Because Michael Medved Is an Enormous …. [...]
I don’t know what all the hoopla is about. We deport (so to speak) a hell of a lot more people than that to prison (or otherwise destroy their lives) every single year for drug “crimes” and I don’t see anyone complaining about the size of their memorial. Oops. I forgot. They don’t have one. Maybe someday. If size matter, it’s going to have to be pretty big.
Maybe we should start a collection to buy a nice size chunk of land for one. It’s inevitable that persecution always catches up with you. If memorials help us to remember, perhaps if we’d had one for all the people whose lives were destroyed by alcohol prohibition we wouldn’t be repeating the same sadistic policy (except on an insanely large scale) with drugs.
I’ve noticed a lot of the young hip liberal left crowd in America don’t like Jews now days. I wonder why? I think many are jealous perhaps, but I think more has to do with this yearning to be European. Euros hate the Jews still today, and maybe along with this new found fake appreciation for soccer, the American cool guys that want to be Euro are picking agitation for the Jews also?
I know that here in Minneapolis they just love anything that’s European. They go gaga over it.
Haven’t we been told that 10% of the population is homosexual? If that’s the case, 10% of 6 million is 600,000……..or is that new math……?
Agree with Chris in AL. That “memorial” looks creepily like a Soviet era architecture peepshow, surely something better can be done.
For the record, Pat, I love Jews AND soccer. Go Holland.
Good point, jwh. 10000-15000 were put in camps because they were gay, but that doesn’t mean that they were the only ones in there who were gay.
What I wonder is why can’t there just be memorials for those killed by Hitler’s regime? Why does it have to be broken down into groups? I don’t know what the Reichstag Code says, but even if it does single out groups to exterminate, can’t it all just be left as “these people were murdered” instead of “these GAY people were murdered” and “these Jewish people were murdered”? It’s not to ignore the targeting of types of people, but who makes the determination that Group X doesn’t get a memorial because there weren’t enough of them murdered?
A lesson for each of us is to quit grouping people, as it divides and makes it easier to control ALL of us. Nothing wrong with using adjectives to describe a person, e.g. “that black guy over there”, but that’s about it.
Excellent title, Radley.
Where do they grow these people?
Are you sure you’re not confusing a lack of blind support for Israel with anger at Jews in general? Happens to me all the time (and I am not liberal left).
Nonetheless, I don’t see any connection between fascination with all things European and any specific like or dislike toward Jews among Americans. On the other hand, I haven’t been paying that much attention.
I don’t know what the true percentage really is, but that’s an excellent point. At almost any percentage, the numbers would certainly be higher than the numbers that have been discussed in reference to the memorial. I suppose the difference might be that their homosexuality was incidental to their treatment rather than the cause for it.
Lee,
I understand the sentiment, but I think there are two reasons that group-specific memorials are desirable (which is not to say there’s anything wrong with a more universal one.)
1. A general memorial is less effective at reminding us why specific groups were targeted, and looking at the reasons different groups were picked for destruction- Jews, homosexuals, Freemasons, people with disabilities, and so on- gives us a greater insight into Nazi ideology than simply knowing the total death toll. You can just look up figures, of course, but memorials for “X number of mentally ill people killed” drives it in more for most people.
2. The second reason is somewhat more specific to the Nazi case. Since Jews comprised about half the total camp victims, it’s natural that Jews are what come to mind when people hear “Nazi atrocities.” Indeed, the term “Holocaust” is often used to refer specifically to Hitler’s Jewish victims. Unfortunately, this has had the effect of largely pushing the other 5-6 million people killed by Hitler out of people’s historical consciousness. (I sometimes hear people say Hitler killed six million people, which drives me nuts.) Everyone knows Hitler murdered Jews, whereas knowledge of the other groups the Nazis targeted is less widespread, which I think is very unfortunate. Thus, in the absence of memorials specific to them, Hitler’s gay victims, disabled victims, and so on will likely be forgotten.
jwh,
I think the more widely accepted figure is something like 2-4% of the population, though even the lower end of that estimate would still mean well over 200,000 homosexuals killed due to membership in other groups.
Perhaps that other 180K (200K minus 15K in camps) were just castrated then. No big deal it grows back right? I guess maybe they shouldn’t have a memorial
John,
Gotcha, I agree wholeheartedly. Just wanted to make my point and see if I got a response that makes sense.
I echo crack: Mega-fucking props for the post title. :rofl:
Does anybody here besides me realize that Billy Beck was taking the piss and IS NOT A HOMOPHOBE? Jeez Marie.
Sorry, have to make obligatory Trek reference (this one from ST: Inusrrection):
“How many deaths does it take, Admiral, *before* it becomes wrong?”
I immediately thought, “That’s a peepshow booth.” I can’t help it. I did.
Andrew,
Billy Beck is most likely not a homophobe but it doesn’t make him any less of a douche.
the peepshow perception isn’t helped by the guy in the trenchcoat
“Does anybody here besides me realize that Billy Beck was taking the piss and IS NOT A HOMOPHOBE? “
That doesn’t matter, Andrew.
No fucking dissent in the ranks of the aware. You and I will shut up, now. Understand? Just do it.
I didn’t take offense at that part of your joke, Billy Beck. I’m just very sensitive about my peanut butter allergies.
Everybody’s “sensitive” about something, man.
Try to carry on with a bit of goddamned dignity, eh wot?
I agree with what #21 Dave K. says. I work with a guy who is Jewish, but I don’t lump him in with the Israelis. I’m not 100% sure that when he goes home at night he’s not secretly meeting other NWO Illuminati types and plotting my downfall and enslavement, but I kind of believe he’s just spending time with his wife and kids and worrying about the same crap that I’m trying to deal with (high gas prices). The point is, I wouldn’t like to be known as “one of them war-mongering Americans” by another group of people simply because of the current state of political affairs in our country and the dipshits that are running our government.
Does anybody here besides me realize that Billy Beck was taking the piss and IS NOT A HOMOPHOBE? Jeez Marie.
Not that it matters in this here context, but you can see him discussing that particular issue here:
http://tinyurl.com/5lj5v3
Even the best of men have chinks in their moral armor. I’d wager good money that this is a testament to the massive power of social conditioning, wherein one of the best examples of someone with integrated, consistent individualist ethics, still can’t completely reject the religious condemnations and schoolyard taunts against homosexuality as the pernicious collectivist non-think they are. I have no other explanation for why such a man would automatically prejudge others for a trait which is, in most cases, completely beyond their control.
I recognize that the ubiquitous antipathy towards homosexuals has instilled in me a prejudice I’ll likely never be rid of. Now, I try my best not to let it influence how I treat others as individuals. I long ago quit trying to find arguments to justify such feelings as rational, which I think was, in part, a defense of those people I loved and respected who took part in the inculcation.
“Not that it matters in this here context, but you can see him discussing that particular issue here:”
That’s right.
I wonder if you can distill the point. I can give you a couple of clues:
1) “Homophobia” — almost everyone single person who writes or speaks that word now is a fucking moron.
2) “Social conditioning”. Figure it out.
I called it “social conditioning,” but you can decide for yourself if you’d use the words culture, peer pressure, or swiss cheese on a cracker to describe the ten thousand times that I witnessed some kid disparage another kid (usually falsely) of being homosexual, and the near-universal response of everyone in sight that to be homosexual was worse than being an oozing leper. That doesn’t even include the hundreds of times I saw adults generally reinforcing such attitudes, from the Archie Bunker types to the more genteel rationalizations of threats to family values. That’s how my prejudices were pounded into me, and it’s only through the application of critical reasoning that I’ve recognized them as such. I may viscerally cringe inside when I encounter an effeminate man, but I don’t for a second think I am justified in knocking off “moral points” at the outset, before knowing anything about him.
Well, good for you, then.
We might each agree that “‘self-appointed’ suits me fine”. (Hitchens, “Young Contrarian”, p. 81) You get to make up your own mind. That’s why you have one.
Everybody’s “sensitive” about something, man.
Try to carry on with a bit of goddamned dignity, eh wot?
What exactly do you mean by this? It looks, from your reaction, like you’re overly sensitive, for some stupid reason, that people want to show respect to gay victims. Your knee-jerk reaction to people showing respect for homosexuals is about as undignified as I’ve seen. You could just carry on your business without comment, if the subject of teh gays gets you so flustered.
Don’t worry, sweetie, I won’t think you’re gay if you don’t bare your fangs at the mere mention of treating homosexual victims with a bit of dignity.
@Dave Krueger (comment 14):
Collecting funds now for a memorial to victims of the War on Drugs would be putting the cart before the horse. First we’ve got to free today’s prisoners — then hold “Nuremberg trials” — followed by a thorough “de-Anslinger-ification” of the US government.
Only then will the US government cease to be at war with its people, especially those of minority races (and I use “at war” in Locke’s meaning).