Monday Morning Poll

Monday, June 9th, 2008


Digg it |  reddit |  del.icio.us |  Fark

30 Responses to “Monday Morning Poll”

  1. #1 |  MacK | 

    I voted but did not know about what!

  2. #2 |  MikeZ | 

    I don’t understand why Libertarians would vote for Obama. He appears to be the most anti-libertarian of the bunch. Can you help me understand?

  3. #3 |  Jonathan Hohensee | 

    “I don’t understand why Libertarians would vote for Obama. He appears to be the most anti-libertarian of the bunch. Can you help me understand?”
    He’s good-looking?

  4. #4 |  tim | 

    Not making the decision until VP picks are made.

  5. #5 |  j.d. | 

    I protest against the Republicans for calling a non-conservative a conservative. When McCain is talking about expanding Article II power, not securing borders, expanding the miltary theater in the middle east, and looks to continue the trend of republican presidents who have expanded federal authority…I have a problem with this. What the neoconservatives have done is perverted conservatism to find thier own ends. 25 years ago, the McCain today would have been branded a democrat. Ultimately this is my main frustration: that the republican party has, in an orwellian way, re-defined what conservatism is. But calling him a conservative does not make it so. And now, millions of conservative americans think that waging frivolous wars is the standard for conservatism. (Just look at Hannity when he supported Giuliani…a pro-gun control, pro-choice, candidate. Yet because he wanted to bomb every muslim nation, Hannity could support him: this shows the high valuation of waging war these neoconservatives have).

    Second, this country cannot endure another four years of George Bush, which is essentially what we’re getting with john mccain. To say that there is a difference between the two is to argue that there are huge differences between valencia oranges and florida navel oranges. Even Lindsay Graham, McCain’s strongest sponsor, says Bush and McCain are synonymous.

    Third, voting Obama will prevent any more neo-conservative justices from being put on the SCOTUS. Of course, calling Scalia, Alito, or Robets ‘conservative’ is strangely backwards. Is it not them who have expanded federal power? There has never been a government progam Alito didn’t like imo. Plus, it would keep the christian-’right’ from securing the overturn of a number of cases. For now.

    Fourth, there comes a point where the Republicans need to be returned to thier libertarian roots; they cannot expect votes while propping up liberal and more liberal candidates. If this trend continues, Lieberman will be the 2012 candidate.

    Fifth, obama is an excellent orator, and I think will re-build bridges to other sovereignties that have been either in disrepair or have been burned. Also, the fact that his impetus to talk before action is more entrenched in the conservative way. On that tip, it would appear we could avoid more unecessary military engagements.

    Sixth, Obama has made some point of pulling out of Iraq, limiting the scope of our harm both in terms of borrowing money to fund the war, but also the harm to American soldiers who have been used as pawns to carry out ill-concieved plans and ulterior motives. As mentioned his Foreign Policy MO is more conservative than McCain’s Wilsonion stance, and bringing home the troops is more aligned with libertarian ideals.

    I could continue, but i’ll leave it at that.

    McCain: More war, open borders, fewer civil liberties. Sounds like a winnar…

  6. #6 |  Mike | 

    I think the libertarianness depends on what freedom issues are more important to you at the moment:

    Mccain was “Rated 0% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)”, “Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003) ”

    Neither one strike me as very libertarian in a small government kind of way.

  7. #7 |  Aaron | 

    Obama has actually done some good work with police accountability and transparency. In Illinois he passed a law requiring police to actually record interrogations. There goes a lot of illegal threats and coercion. Isn’t coercion by government agents something libertarians care about?

    No, his health care plan is hardly libertarian. But I think it’s less damaging to personal liberty and indeed to the nation than continuing on the same track as Bush, which McCain is pledged to do. New social programs do up the tax burden and cost money, but that’s the only cost. Endless war does this to a far greater extent, and also is used to justify crackdown on civil liberties

    Given Bob Barr’s past record, I am somewhat hesitant. He talks a decent talk now, and I hope he has turned over a new leaf. If I weren’t in an extremely close state, I might vote for him.

  8. #8 |  Mike Gogulski | 

    Don’t vote, it only encourages them.

  9. #9 |  Nando | 

    #4 tim

    Not making the decision until VP picks are made.

    Other than with the sitting President, I don’t think a VP would have much influence at all, unless the President were to die in office. Cheney and Bush are just the rare exception.

  10. #10 |  j.d. | 

    Nando, I agree with you….but I think McCain’s VP pick would be crucual, in consideration of his age, his slackening health, etc…

    For obama, his pick would appeal to the more moderate area of the voting bloc. (I’m thinking Webb or Biden).

  11. #11 |  Clerihew Doggerel | 

    If you vote in this illusion of choice proto-fascist charade of an election, you are part of the problem.

    No matter who wins, we’re still a morally deficient nation that’s carrying untenable debt into our future…all the while (still) spending like drunken sailors. We’re like a generational-wealthy family that has recently gone broke. We just can’t afford to pay for the hired help (our government) to do things for us, things that we are well capable of doing for ourselves. It’s time to pare back and live within our means. Until a candidate makes some approximation of that noise, I intend to treat voters with scorn. These days, it’s all “Coke or Pepsi?”, when what we need is water.

  12. #12 |  Lenny Zimmermann | 

    If it were even remotely close in my state (Louisiana) I’d vote for Obama. But most polls seem to suggest that McCain has this place all but wrapped up in a pretty yellow bow for him. So I get to vote where I’d mostly prefer to do so anyway by voting Libertarian. Yeah, that means a vote for Barr, but even with his baggage considering he has the Libertarian Party itself to keep reminding him of all the things he’s seen the light on (supposedly)… let’s just say that he’s still a lot better than the other guys on the list.

  13. #13 |  CitizenNothing | 

    Ron Paul

  14. #14 |  scott | 

    Whereas I wouldn’t vote FOR McCain if I had a choice, unfortunately I don’t.

    Obama is a Marxist, not just a big-government, not very pro-freedom, RINO (not that I’m fond of Republicans either). He’s not just forgotten what America’s principles are all about, he DOESN’T LIKE them!

    It seems that a lot of Americans want to committ cultural suicide like the Europeans by voting for someone who will lead them to destruction but make them feel good as they go.

    No thanks. I’ll go down swinging.

  15. #15 |  CitizenNothing | 

    Ron Paul

    Let me clarify. We can debate which of the two candidates is less-horrific all day long, but in the end, we’re going to be stuck with one of them and either will accelerate our nation’s decline (more debt, more nanny-state, more police-state, less choice, less freedom, etc).

    So I will use my vote for its only useful purpose in this Presidential election, to protest.

    My support of Ron Paul is not the cult-of-personality many deride it as. I wish there were better candidates to choose from. As it is, he is the only candidate to even consider the best interests of our republic.

  16. #16 |  CitizenNothing | 

    And Bob Barr is out because supported (supports?) the Lautenberg gun ban, calling it “important and worthwhile.”

    No gun control is worthwhile. No infringements on civil rights are worthwhile, especially when the justification is inanimate objects.

    Bob Barr may be orders-of-magnitude less horrific than McCain and Obama, but supporting gun-control is a deal breaker for me. Being just a little evil is still evil.

  17. #17 |  Against Stupidity | 

    Unfortunately, the way much of the political system is rigged these days, we are always forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

  18. #18 |  Aaron | 

    Obama is a “marxist”? Please. Strong claims require strong evidence, not DeLay chattering “if he doesn’t refute me, he must be one.”

  19. #19 |  jwh | 

    …..don’t count Hillary out……she may pull that independent card out of her crotch yet…….

  20. #20 |  Les | 

    Obama is a Marxist

    I’m with Aaron. Please show where Obama has endorsed the philosophies of Karl Marx. If you can’t, don’t say he’s a Marxist. You can still disagree with his policies without resorting to hyperbole.

  21. #21 |  Danno49 | 

    Fuck them all. Until a real candidate is on the ballot, like say, a Ron Paul . . . I am not participating. I am sick of choosing the lesser of 2 evils in these elections. I am just going about my life and hope for the best for all of us.

  22. #22 |  airforce | 

    Count me as undecided between Barr and Pastor Chuck Baldwin (who was not in the poll).

    There’s a reason I keep my hair cut short. If it was any longer, I’d be tearing it out.

  23. #23 |  Agent Provocateur | 

    After seeing the results of the poll and reading the comments here … now I know why there is no hope for America. I am going to relish with a vengeance the groveling most of you (not all) will be doing on your knees begging the government to “help you” when all goes the shit in the next four years. Most of you … persons … are NOT the solution, but the PROBLEM.

    Enjoy the ride. No doubt that most of you are not even prepared.

  24. #24 |  Agent Provocateur | 

    Obama not a Marxist/Socialist?

    Ok … read the constitution.

    Then read the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto.

    (Gee … come to think of it, most of these idiots that are elected are communists/socialists. Hmm. Which means most people who voted for them are … communists/socialists).

    Well, I guess the good news is, is that Bush is a communist/socialist and a fascist!

    Ha! Take your pick!

  25. #25 |  Les | 

    Whoa…

    Provocative!

  26. #26 |  Aaron | 

    As far as I can tell, of the ten planks of the Communist Manisfesto, The only ones you can argue Obama is even partially for are:

    2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

    and

    10. Free education for all children in public schools.
    Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form.
    Combination of education with industrial production, &c., &c.

    So, everyone who thinks progressive taxation and public funding of elementary schools are a good idea, and five year olds crawling through active machinery a bad idea (factory labor at that time).

    Wow, I guess more than 90% of the U.S. is Marxist. If you take these positions as implying Marxism, you’ve distorted the word beyond any useful meaning.

    Or do you want to argue he supports other planks?

  27. #27 |  Agent Provocateur | 

    I’ll argue that he supports other planks:

    1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose.

    The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management.

    2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

    Misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State “income” taxes. We call it “paying your fair share”.

    3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

    We call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

    4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

    We call in government seizures, tax liens, Public “law” 99-570 (1986);

    Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of “terrorists” and those who speak out or write against the “government” (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process.

    5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

    We call it the Federal Reserve which is a credit/debt system nationally organized by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).

    6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State.

    We call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver’s licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

    7. Extention of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

    We call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture. As well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Evironmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

    8. Equal liablity of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

    We call it the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two “income” family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920′s, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Fedral Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

    9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

    We call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public “law” 89-136.

    10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

    People are being taxed to support what we call ‘public’ schools, which train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based “Education”.

    If, Obama gets on national television and promises to eradicate these programs from government … including all E.O.’s and agencies not enumerated in the constitution … maybe he’ll get my vote. (Just kidding. It will never happen).

    Obama and all the other candidates have no business advocating anything that is not within the delegated powers of the constitution. As for anything that is not delegated in the constitution to the feds … it goes to the states … unless specifically prohibited by the constitution.

    You didn’t know that … did you? Or, you just don’t care. I could go on, but then again, communist and socialists are a pretty hard headed lot. I might as well be talking to a petrified _ _ _ _.

  28. #28 |  S | 

    Agent Provocateur: Under point 8 you mention the 19th ammendment to the U.S. constitution. Does that mean that you are
    against women having the right to vote or that you consider this in some way particularly Marxist?

  29. #29 |  Mike | 

    Whoa,
    Obama was responsible for the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 thats pretty impressive since that was a dozen or so years before he was born.

    It looks like your post may show the government in general has communist properties and I don’t disagree, but nothing you showed is connected to a single candidate.

  30. #30 |  The Agitator » Blog Archive » Monday Morning Poll | 

    [...] For comparison with last week’s question… [...]

Leave a Reply