Absolute MADDness

Saturday, May 31st, 2008

I think I’m going to be sick:

Many juniors and seniors were driven to tears – a few to near hysterics – May 26 when a uniformed police officer arrived in several classrooms to notify them that a fellow student had been killed in a drunken-driving accident.

The officer read a brief eulogy, placed a rose on the deceased student’s seat, then left the class members to process their thoughts and emotions for the next hour.

The program, titled “Every 15 Minutes,” was designed by Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Its title refers to the frequency in which a person somewhere in the country dies in an alcohol-related traffic accident.

About 10 a.m., students were called to the athletic stadium, where they learned that their classmates had not died. There, a group of seniors, police officers and firefighters staged a startlingly realistic alcohol-induced fatal car crash. The students who had purportedly died portrayed ghostly apparitions encircling the scene.

Though the deception left some teens temporarily confused and angry, if it makes even one student think twice before getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, it is worth the price, said California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Newbury, who orchestrates the program at local high schools.

What the hell is wrong with these people?

Digg it |  reddit |  del.icio.us |  Fark

227 Responses to “Absolute MADDness”

  1. #1 |  Chris Grieb | 

    Has MADD never been sued. I would think at least one person has been traumitized by this horrow.

  2. #2 |  Jrob | 

    How is this NOT child abuse?!!!

  3. #3 |  Dave Krueger | 

    You obviously aren’t familiar with the guiding rule for all such crusades.

    If it saves only one life, it will have been worth it.

    It helps relieve them of any guilt they might be faced with as a result of strategy totally devoid of ethics.

  4. #4 |  Lee | 

    Lord help them if they ever do this to one of my kids.

  5. #5 |  Greg N. | 

    I lost two of my seniors in a late-night car accident just last week (no evidence yet that alcohol was involved). Having seen first-hand what real death does to these kids, I can’t imagine why anyone would want to do this to them. Even I, having seen my kids in their caskets, thought for a moment, “Hey, maybe they’re not dead. Maybe this was a MADD stunt that lasted a little too long.”

    When one of their kids is actually hurt in an accident, how will these kids respond? “Oh, it’s probably just another of Newbury’s pranks.”

    They shouldn’t be doing this.

  6. #6 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    There are so many well meaning goddamned fools using school programs to play with the emotions of minor children:

    – Sex education experts who REQUIRE children to talk about sexual matters, whether they want to or not.

    – Environmentalists who, having neither actual evidence nor the ability to present it rationally if they had, resort to scaring children into believing their confused religion.

    – Anti-smoking zealots who go far beyond any evidence, and terrify children that if their parents smoke they are due to drop dead momentarily.

    – and now these pious twits.

    Perhaps it is for the best that I don’t have any kids, because if I did and a bunch of blathering nitwits pulled something like this on one of them, I would reintroduce the fine old custom of horsewhipping the principal when the school did something egregiously stupid.

  7. #7 |  Nathan Benedict | 

    This could certainly be grounds for a lawsuit. One of the earliest types of cases to recognize a claim for emotional distress was the “mistaken telegram” claim, in which the victim receives erroneous notification that a family member has died. But of course, we all know that the government plays by special rules.

  8. #8 |  Grant Gould | 

    The moral, kids, is “never trust a cop.”

    In that sense, at least, I think this was good education. These students have begun to learn: If a cop tells you the sky is blue, check for yourself, then get an attorney to check as well.

  9. #9 |  dsmallwood | 

    “if it makes even one student think twice … it is worth the price”

    cool. that is soooo cool that a cop and a bunch of strangers are willing to determine what price i can afford. i wonder if we could cut off everyone’s trigger finger … that seems like a small price to pay to stop gun violence.

  10. #10 |  Episiarch | 

    This makes one thing (that we all already knew) crystal clear: lying and deception is perfectly acceptable to these people. Remember that about everything they say and do.

  11. #11 |  Skip Oliva | 

    People should remember this story the next time we hear about the “tragedy” of a police officer killed in the line of duty.

  12. #12 |  Skip Oliva | 

    Geez, Radley, you should have posted this part of the story:

    “Though the deception left some teens temporarily confused and angry, if it makes even one student think twice before getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, it is worth the price, said California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Newbury, who orchestrates the program at local high schools.

    “When someone says to me, ‘Oh, my God, you’re traumatizing my children,’ I’m telling them, ‘No, what I’m doing is waking them up,’ ” said Newbury, whose father was killed by a drunken driver.

    “If you don’t do your job as a parent … the only thing I can do is either arrest them and take them to jail or scrape them off the ground and tell you, ‘I’m so sorry.’ ”

    Standard speeches don’t usually get the desired reaction, Newbury said.

    “If I sit there and lecture somebody in a nice way, it’s going to go in one ear and out the other,” he said. “In today’s world, where they have all sorts of gore and fantastic things that kids can access on the computer, if you want to compete with that, you have to jar them emotionally.

    “I want them to be an emotional wreck. I don’t want them to have to live through this for real.”

    “I want them to be an emotional wreck.” If this guy has children of his own, I’d send an army of social workers to emotionally wreck his life.

  13. #13 |  Chris | 

    My daughter used to come home and spout all sorts of propaganda she was subjected to at her school (D.A.R.E. Environment Groups, etc.). I taught her to question what she was being told in these sorts of situations and decide for herself. The facts can be found with some proper research and we both enjoyed spending time together, debunking some of the more bizarre things that are taught at her school.

    She also has been taught to be very wary of government officials (police officers especially). Not afraid of them, just mindful that they have their own agenda, and can use information given to them to do bad things sometimes. I don’t want her to hate police officers, just be extremely wary of their intentions.

  14. #14 |  Allie | 

    This has been going on since at least 1999. I remember the accompanying skit on the quad — performed after we’d learned that in fact none of our friends were dead…today — was hilarious, but I also remember that joints were being passed around the audience at the time. How’s that for pseudo-ironic.

  15. #15 |  MikeS | 

    I’m reminded of these “scared straight” things were cops will conduct a mock drug-raid on a high school. They’re trying to indoctrinate kids to get used to a police/nanny state — to get used to a society that treats everyone like a child.

  16. #16 |  Nick T | 

    “I want them to be an emotional wreck” = slam dunk lawsuit.

    Shouldn’t this guy at least get permission slips from parents that they would like their child to experience this kind of ordeal? What if one of these kids goes into shock, or experiences an asthma attack? This guy is talking about the value of making *one* child *think twice* about *getting behind the wheel*. Not necessarilly preventing one accident or one death, just making someone hesitate before making a poor decision that is very likely not to actually harm anyone.

    It’s sad that this guy’s father died, but in all honesty, what’s worse is that his father was unable to not raise a spine-crushing moron.

  17. #17 |  skeppie | 

    If fatalities caused by drunk-driving were as common as MADD and company would like you to believe, they would be able to use real dead kids to make their “point.” Hmmm…..

  18. #18 |  Skip Oliva | 

    Now that I think about it… Using fear against innocent people to advance a political agenda. There’s a word for that. It begins with the letter “T,” if I recall.

  19. #19 |  C. S. P. Schofield | 

    “i wonder if we could cut off everyone’s trigger finger … that seems like a small price to pay to stop gun violence.”

    God, I wish you hadn’t expressed that. You just can’t joke with these people. They are completely satire proof, because there is no absurdity they will not blindly commit in pursuit of their disgusting agenda.

  20. #20 |  concernedcitizen | 

    Skeppie, that’s an excellent point. I’m old enough to remember a time when drunken driving was taken fairly lightly, and it wasn’t too hard to find examples of the dangers. Now, it’s a little more difficult, because we don’t tolerate it and most people know better.

    It seems to me that most of the “damage” done by drinking and driving these days is done by our overzealous pursuit of prosecuting it.

    I’d also like to say the comments at the end of the article make some very good points — how about the IRS send out letters demanding $100,000 in back taxes every so often, then send another letter a few days later saying, “sorry, just kidding, but this should teach you not to cheat on your taxes.” No harm, no foul right? Maybe the police can come to our house and tell us a loved one died in a drunken driving accident, then come back and tell us an hour later it was all a ruse. That’ll sure teach us a lesson.

  21. #21 |  MacK | 

    I think the children of the organizers of this attack on our children should to be told that their parent was killed while conducting a a no knock raid on an innocent citizen.

    After all if it makes even one of them know how corrupt their parent is then it is worth it.

  22. #22 |  Mike Gogulski | 

    Oh goody, now can we get the fuzz to come around and stage equivalent theater encouraging students to, say, not join the army?

  23. #23 |  supercat | 

    //This makes one thing (that we all already knew) crystal clear: lying and deception is perfectly acceptable to these people. Remember that about everything they say and do.//

    That’s a message that needs to get spread among the student body. With luck, it might help some of the students escape the Liberal Mind Fog that the schools are trying to impart.

  24. #24 |  Jonathan Hohensee | 

    “Now that I think about it… Using fear against innocent people to advance a political agenda. There’s a word for that. It begins with the letter “T,” if I recall.”
    Does it rhyme with the letter “P” which stands for POOL HALL!

  25. #25 |  Mark W. Rutherford | 

    MADD is a dangerous, puritanical and prohibitionist organization. It must be stopped.

  26. #26 |  Al Whatley | 

    Regardless of whether MADD’s tactics are acceptable or not, we need to free people from the obligation of using their car whether they are prepared to drive or not. Far fewer drunks would drive if they had the luxury to wait it out. We’ve got to end the slavery-based system, with us since before the Romans, that manifests itself in property taxes and rigid scheduling of the workforce.

  27. #27 |  James D | 

    Stuff like this makes me glad I have no children … I can imagine raising kids in the modern US.

  28. #28 |  James D | 

    I meant “can’t”

  29. #29 |  Kyle | 

    When I was in high school, we did something somewhat similar. Throughout the school day, every certain number of minutes (I don’t think it was 15, something longer than that) someone would come on the announcement system to say that a certain student had been killed by a drunk driver. That student would then have a placard or something to let people know and wasn’t supposed to talk for the rest of the day.

    The crucial difference was that the entire school was told that this was going to happen at the beginning of the day. It still definitely made people think about it more, wasn’t too much of an interruption, and didn’t cause incredible emotional stress. Of course, there were a handful of students who missed the morning announcements…

  30. #30 |  Lee | 

    Sick fuckers with their “the ends justify the means” mentality. I wonder how far you take the loose connection of dots under that style of thinking. And how ironic that they have one of the best liars do the job, a cop. Fucking pig with no morals, “I’m just doing my job”.

  31. #31 |  Kenn Gividen | 

    During my 12 year tenure as a pastor I “preached” three funerals of teenagers, all killed in auto accidents.

    One was a 14 year old who stoled a car.

    One was a 17 year old passenger in his friend’s car.

    One was an 18 year old who (apparently) committed suicide.

    All involved high speeds or wreckless driving. None involved alcohol.

    http://www.endiana.com

  32. #32 |  Rich | 

    Sounds like lawsuit time.

    I’m thinking “Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress”.

  33. #33 |  Mikestermike | 

    I remember in HS they pulled something similar, but the kids just got to wear black clothes and face paint to make them look dead, or at least more zombie like. Mainly honor roll kids, student body leadership, and Just Say No folks. Every so often another kid got to run to the drama room, splash some makeup, and come out dead. They weren’t allowe do talk or interact (which made my Physics lab a royal pain that day). Problem was, they blended in with the goth kids. Almost appeared that the Cure had dressed the school that day.
    Stupid tricks. Thank jeebus they didn’t do that stunt then. What if the stunt lead to a suicide of another kid??? Teens are emotional wrecks as it is, ya know!

  34. #34 |  Lee | 

    Few more things to add:
    1) Were the children’s parent’s notified this was going to happen (likely not)?
    2) Were the parent’s of the “dead” child in on it?
    3) How was the “dead” child approached to play “dead”? Was it a random drawing? The child’s idea? Who approached who?
    4) This “I will raise your child for you” mentality is WRONG. Sure, lots of parents don’t do their job, but it’s not government’s place to play surrogate. How appropriate that this all took place in a government indoctrination camp (AKA public school).
    5) Is the next step for cops to do this in your neighborhood? I think for now they wouldn’t DARE to try, which is why it takes place in the government indoctrination camp.

  35. #35 |  Marty | 

    I’d love to know how many many people this classroom cop has scraped off the road… the ones that make the most noise do the least work. I’ve been working in EMS for 20 years, 11 at a high volume service… I had some tragic calls, but nothing like the crap these clowns spew at us. I’ve definitely never felt the urge to go scare the hell out of a bunch of people to further some safety agenda. I’m guessing I’ve been on 15,000 911 calls and maybe 5% were bad… even fewer still were fatal or permanently damaged. That’s about par for the industry.
    I bet this guy is heading up the car seat cartel and the seatbelt compliance squad, too. For the greater good!

  36. #36 |  Judi | 

    On May 18, 2008 in N.C.,at approximately 11:20 P.M. Sunday night, Brandon Craver, age 18 and a high school Senior due to graduate in June of this year, was killed when the motorcycle he was riding home (within two miles of home) left the road in a sudden downpour of rain, hit a culvert, throwing him into a power pole then his body onto the pavement of a rural road. Another vehicle, not knowing what had just occurred, could NOT STOP in time and hit his still-alive body. In spite of this, Brandon still tried to speak to rescue personnel on the scene. He died a few hours later in the early morning hours on May 19, 2008. Brandon was also a senior volunteer firefighter. His department and colleagues responded to this call. Brandon had just taken and passed the agility test the previous day to become a paid firefighter for our city fire department.
    This was NOT a ‘drill’ or ‘staged scene’. This was reality in the worst way.
    My son, his classmate, and Brandon’s other classmates suffered and grieved immensely.
    The depression I am seeing my son and others go through is indescribable. These kids will NEVER get over this completely. I witnessed their pain. It was and still is horrific.
    To ‘stage’ an incident to provoke or invoke a response such as the one described in this article is incomprehensible, unethical, unprofessional, unwarranted and unforgiveable.
    One would imagine that these supposedly educated people could have used creativity other than the one they chose to get their POINT across. Just a note, I am a former paramedic of 7 years. I only THOUGHT I had heard and seen just about everything until now.
    By the way, there was NO ALCOHOL, DRUGS or other aggravating factors other than the fact he was caught in a cloudburst of rain, involved in Brandon’s accident.

  37. #37 |  O’DonnellWeb - This is not a homeschooling blog » Blog Archive » MADD goes MAD | 

    […] tip: The Agitator, and also Skip Olivia, as I lifted the terrorism analogy from his […]

  38. #38 |  Thomas Paine's Goiter | 

    Question for everyone – what would happen if students did this to each other?

  39. #39 |  Judi | 

    To Thomas Paine’s Goiter:

    Good question. I would love to be a FLY on the wall if they ‘staged’ an ‘accident’ or posed your question to Brandon Craver’s family, classmates and fellow volunteer firefighters.

    These people would love nothing MORE than to answer it and for this to have all been a dream.

  40. #40 |  Packratt | 

    I bet the same school officials are sitting in their office trying to figure out why parents are pulling their kids out of their district to put them in private schools or homeschooling.

  41. #41 |  Judi | 

    To Packratt:

    As a parent, I would have to pt my kid on another planet since I would be ashamed to have him think that this is the way HUMANS are supposed to act.

  42. #42 |  once more with feeling » Telling people lies is not right | 

    […] just saw this story (hat tip).  Mother’s Against Drunk Driving has managed to institute some sort of campaign in […]

  43. #43 |  j.d. | 

    radley, if this makes you nauseus, then how did the Johnson case make you feel?

  44. #44 |  Packratt | 

    Judi,

    Oh, sometimes I wish we could do that too… but, our duty to our children as parents includes helping them understand that people do things like this in the real world and be there to help them understand why it’s unacceptable in a way that helps them develop their own critical thinking skills and a strong sense of personal ethics and individual responsibility.

    It’s not enough for them to be told something is wrong, but also to understand why it is so.

    That other adults, especially the ones we entrust to teach our children their life’s lessons in out stead, would seek to show them that ends justify means and that those means would include such blatantly disturbing psychological manipulations and outright falsehoods and deceptions is despicable… but this story too is a lesson for my children: that some people will go to any lengths to project their own miseries onto others in the name of self-righteousness.

    (and I am sorry to hear of Brandon’s story, the world’s loss of a good soul touches many others)

  45. #45 |  chance | 

    I didn’t realize that high school kids were so emotionally fragile. You guys just aren’t happy unless you have something to complain about.

  46. #46 |  Nick T | 

    “I didn’t realize that high school kids were so emotionally fragile.”

    So in other words you’re a moron? What, do you think high school is a time of particular emotional stability and maturity?

    I would trust a high-schooler to choose to not drink and drive to the point of being a danger, over trusting one to not be significantly traumatized after believing a close friend had just died.

    Also, chance, you’re on a website called “The Agitator,” maybe you should go hang out at holdnooneaccountablecuzitsnothtatbigadeal.com

  47. #47 |  The Other Jeff | 

    Where’s our litigious society when it’s needed?

  48. #48 |  supercat | 

    //I didn’t realize that high school kids were so emotionally fragile. You guys just aren’t happy unless you have something to complain about.//

    The stated purpose of the exercise was to cause emotional distress. In the lawsuit I hope will be filed, such statement of purpose would make it rather hard for Mr. Newbury to argue that the students’ distress was a result of unreasonable emotional fragility.

  49. #49 |  Judi | 

    To Packratt, Thank you.

    To chance: Well DUH!@#$ You should have been at Brandon’s funeral last week…that would really have kept you amused. High school kids are hovering between leaving their childhood behind and taking that leap into adulthood. This alone is frightening, especially in our world as it is today.

    To Nick T: I like your style…

  50. #50 |  Bryan | 

    I, for one, welcome our new fake-traffic-accident-death staging overlords.

  51. #51 |  Judi | 

    P.S.

    To Radley and others who asks the question, “What the hell is wrong with these people?”

    It is called neuro-flatulence. A version I coined.

  52. #52 |  Matt Moore | 

    chance – You’re a dick.

  53. #53 |  Frank | 

    If this was one of MY kids the lawyer would be working the weekend to have the notice of claim done for serving Monday morning. Sue the school district, the school board and the members individually. Find out who the district risk management geek is and sue him, because he’s collecting taxpayer money under false pretenses. This is the kind of crap he’s supposed to stop, for Christsake.

    Sue the principal and every adult in the school that knew about this and failed to keep it from happening. Sue the CHP and every badge involved in this fiasco. Sue MADD and every chapter officer as individuals.

    Make it clear to the school district that any out-of-court settlement includes termination of the principal. No bennies, no golden handshake, just out the door with a boot sideways in his rectum.

    Make it clear to the principal that he’s now my little bitch. If I want to dress him as a leatherboy and auction his butt off at the Blue Oyster Bar, it’s gonna happen and he’d better learn to enjoy it. Otherwise his family will set up housekeeping in a refrigerator box.

    Make it clear to the CHP that I want the badges of every skunk pig involved. No one gets to pull stunts like this under color of law.

    Make it clear to MADD that their only hope to come out of this with their bank accounts intact is to disband the chapter, sign over the assets, and never ever again form another terrorist organization.

    Doing the car crash DUI thing with the quarterback and the cheerleader in mulage is one thing. Falsely telling students their friends are dead is something else entirely.

  54. #54 |  Judi | 

    Gee FRANK, will you marry me? Well at least let me take you out to lunch!

    LOL

    Very well stated and I SECOND the motion and ADD an hearty AMEN!

  55. #55 |  thorn | 

    I wonder how Officer Eric Newbury or Counselor Lori Tauber would react if someone called them at work and inform them a loved one had just been killed.

    Would they find it to be learning experience, to teach them to cherish their loved ones more… or more likely cruel and perverse harassment?

  56. #56 |  Mike H | 

    CHPs. Jeez.
    Once, when I was going to school in CA, I got stalled in the middle (left-turn lane) of a six-lane highway thanks to a bad alternator. I was very near my college, but it was a really dicey situation nonetheless.

    A CHiPs guy rolls up behind me and demands to know what the hell I thought I was doing. I told him I needed a tow in a big hurry or there would be an accident. When he realized he wasn’t in a position to ticket me, but to actually help me, he got this spooked look on his face and bolted back to his car. I begged him to call in a tow-truck but his only response was “Hey, that’s not my job. You need to find a phonebooth and make the call yourself.”

    And as he sped away, he left me with this priceless gem:
    “Oh, and try not to get smeared crossing the highway.”

    Fucker. Good thing my buddy drove up and gave me a boost.
    That was a really frightening situation alleviated NOT AT ALL by the CHP department.

  57. #57 |  Chris M | 

    In retaliation, a student should have gone to the guidance councelor the next day and said that, due to the distress of yesterday’s events, a friend had taken their own life. After letting her sweat for a few minutes, the student could then say “oooooops, just jokin’.” That would be sweet.

  58. #58 |  Kathleen | 

    Another reason for home schooling.

  59. #59 |  Mike Hunter | 

    Someone should find one of the police officers who participate in the program that as a family member serving in the military. And then tell him that his brother died a horrible death at the hands of Iraqi insurgents. After all if it prevents just one kid from joining the military and becoming a bullet sponge then it’s worth it.

  60. #60 |  Chris in AL | 

    Is a cop ever the one to go to a school and tell whole classrooms of kids when there is a real death? I assume that it is never done this way when a real fatality has occurred.

    Just want to know if I am safe to go ahead and tell my son that if anything like this ever happens in his school, he can assume it is bullshit from the very start. And he can tell everyone else as well.

  61. #61 |  CK | 

    When real deaths occur, it is usually the guidance staff that has the duty of informing the whole school, not just one classroom.
    Cops tell next of kin.
    As a generality, everything said by authorities should be taken with a box of Morton’s. You might end up distrutsting a few factual things but you will save a whole lot of time and money spent believing spin and bull

  62. #62 |  Patrick | 

    The Every 15 Minutes program is not a secret and there is no deception. The students know the program is going on, they just don’t know which students were “selected” or volunteered to be victims. Come on, you think they really made a fake notification, read a eulogy, and placed a rose on a desk and the kids believed it was real? I thought you were smart.

  63. #63 |  supercat | 

    //The Every 15 Minutes program is not a secret and there is no deception. The students know the program is going on, they just don’t know which students were “selected” or volunteered to be victims.//

    That may be the way the program is supposed to be implemented. That doesn’t mean that’s how it was handled in this particular case.

    //Come on, you think they really made a fake notification, read a eulogy, and placed a rose on a desk and the kids believed it was real? I thought you were smart.//

    If Skip Oliva’s quote from Officer Newbury is accurate, “I want them to be an emotional wreck. I don’t want them to have to live through this for real,” it would seem entirely plausible that he decided to ‘enhance’ the program by getting rid of the advance notifications.

    If someone goes on record as saying he intends to cause emotional distress, how is it not his own fault if he succeeds?

  64. #64 |  Matt Moore | 

    Patrick – “Though the deception left some teens temporarily confused and angry.”

    You were saying?

  65. #65 |  Judi | 

    Officer Newberry stated in his interview: “I want them to be an emotional wreck. I don’t want them to have to live through this for real.”

    As I stated earlier, my son and his classmates REALLY lost a classmate, Brandon, just two weeks ago TODAY…from a motorcycle accident in which NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL were involved. This young man was due to graduate from high school June 9, 2008. He was also a volunteer firefighter.

    “EMOTIONAL WRECK?” What I’d give to have Brandon back and not have his family, classmates, friends and fellow firefighters be an “EMOTIONAL WRECK”.

    Their REAL GRIEF is beyond words. I pray they do not hear of this story.

    Obviously Officer Newberry doesn’t have children and has never suffered a devastating loss such as this one. If he had children, he would be the parent who beats them daily with a belt to let them know what will happen if they misbehave….DUH!

    School counselor Lori Tauber stated: “I just know in my heart this was worth it.”

    What heart?

  66. #66 |  ZappaCrappa | 

    And we wonder why kids don’t trust adults. I know the answer…because most adults are idiots…especially those given authority…like teachers, couselors, and cops.

  67. #67 |  pam | 

    these people are terrorists and should be tortured.

  68. #68 |  Nexus | 

    Personally I think it was good for the kids….Children need to face some of the harsh realities of the world in a controlled environment. All these parents that are afraid to see their children in some type of distress or situation, or afraid to do something so simple as actually punishing them (Time outs are not punishments) are doing their children nothing but a disservice. The Reality is the world can be and quite often is a dangerous, cruel, and disquieting place riddled with turmoil and conflict. The sooner the children learn to deal with such in a manner that promotes positive thinking and action the better.

    This program does just that if they are aware of what might happen, could happen and how it feels to be in that situation then for goodness sake, what is wrong with it? All you griping is just another example of political correctness and governmental programming. Learn to think for yourselves, learn to educate your children and this kinda stunt wouldn’t be necessary.

  69. #69 |  jerry | 

    There’s got to be some way to get PETA and MADD in a stadium and have them shoot each other to death….

  70. #70 |  Family Candids: Cuba Gooding Jr & Son | 

    […] classrooms to notify them that a fellow student had been killed in a drunken-driving accident. The officer read a brief eulogy, placed a rose on the deceased student’s seat, then left the class… – Here’s the punch line the ish is fake.  WTF are they […]

  71. #71 |  Andrew | 

    you guys are all fucking idiots….. this is whats wrong with the world, or at least america, today… everyone gets all worked up over mundane, trivial bullshit! They did the same thing when i was in highschool over 5 years ago, and it didnt traumatize anyone, with todays kids attention span at almost nothing, police/teachers/society are being forced to change the way they do/taught life lessons. The film shown in drivers ed class back in the day that showed footage from actual fatal car accidents, including bodies that had been burned and decapitated and whatnot, THAT is much more traumatizing then letting a few drama students ACT out a fatal DUI crash in front of the entire school…. all of the vehicles in the act are completely stationary and staged in the positions they are shown to the students in, there is NO risk of anyone actually getting hurt… it is simply an innovative way to try and pound home the idea of not drinking and driving…. so lighten up everyone and stop getting offended by every little friggin thing that might “emotionally scar” your little johnny… (who’s probably off getting high and killing shit tons of citizens with his buddies on their new game, GTA IV….. if you wanna get worked up over something traumatic… try that shit, or maybe the show COPS)

  72. #72 |  The Cheat | 

    Meh!

  73. #73 |  Greg | 

    Having seen both sides of this situation it is really worth it. The 15 minutes program does work, and does not overly traumatize kids. Most of these programs are being done to high school juniors and seniors who at high risk for drinking and driving, not elementary or middle schoolers. Also having had friends that have died from drunken drivers if some discomfort saves a life it is worth it. Are you so afraid of discomfort that you want to sue those who are trying to save your children. The sheer fact that you are reacting this way demonstrates what is wrong with America, they may have taken the program a little far but even still that is not a reason to sue them. The cop is right I want to you go and tell some parent that they lost their child because you were afraid your child would be uncomfortable in school.

  74. #74 |  rational | 

    god you folks are a bunch of idiots, this what is wrong with this country.

    A lawsuit for this? what actual harm has been done? Its lawsuits like these that should be forbidden. It’s just greedy, lazy people who want to strip more money from others. Get a life already. I actually wish they’d spread a program like this elsewhere.

    You can’t put your kids in a fricken bubble and then spas out when life actually happens to them. The comments on here have been pathetic.

  75. #75 |  beatrice | 

    MADD is going to loose their credibility real fast with stunts like this. If my kids were at the school, I hope some parents start calling the local chapter of MADD with made-up stories about the worker’s kids and parents, “May I speak with _____? Please have h/er/im call the MRSA Chief Hospital right away. It’s about his precious snowflake.”

    It’s the parent’s job to teach the kids this stuff. If I want my kids taught this, I’ll stage my own family drama!

  76. #76 |  billybubba | 

    “Though the deception left some teens temporarily confused and angry, if it makes even one student think twice before getting behind the wheel of a car while intoxicated, it is worth the price, said California Highway Patrol Officer Eric Newbury, who orchestrates the program at local high schools.”

    I think it will simply reinforce what this generation already knows: Police/authority figures are manipulative liars who are not worthy of any respect.

  77. #77 |  Cody | 

    Well, we know this program didn’t get the best reaction when simulating a drunken car wreck…Maybe next time we could stage the same activity at random strangers’ houses. :) Tell a woman her partner just died and won’t be home for supper…a father, that his little boy was killed on his way home from school! Better still…let’s go walk the halls of a hospital and tell every second people that they have an incurable disease! Wow! I’m really loving this idea now!….NOT!
    These are adults who have forgotten their mission…they want to be the inspirational speakers who they are NOT. The only way they can get the reaction they’re looking for is by letting people think that their peer/brother/sister/cousin/boyfriend/girlfriend/neighbour/mentor is dead; won’t be comming back. After this experience…I doubt it’s the Drunk Drivers who will lose respect. It’s the educators and service providers these kids should be able to hold their safety in. Not all aspects of life have to be simulated as a reality TV show.

  78. #78 |  CK | 

    @Pam: By whom?

  79. #79 |  Burt | 

    Most of the people making negative comments about officer Newberry would be the first ones to condemn him if one of their sweet little snowflakes got killed by a drunk driver and he never made them aware of the consequences of what happens while driving under the influnece. Poor little snowflakes, how are they going to handle everyday life after school and the leave the protection of the nest? This program should have been started when the parents were teens. Hummmm, maybe the parents are teens.

  80. #80 |  Michelle | 

    you know you are all a bunch of whiners, i for one am glad that they are going to such extremes because for all the “good intentions” that parents have the kids dont get it when they are just told they have to see for themselves how far they can push the envelope and its about f***ing time someone started showing them the cold hard reality as parents today seem so incapable of doing. god forbid we should warp their little personalities by telling them how it is lets just not talk about it and they will just know better… wake up people this world is going to shit on the backs of those same teenagers who are being raised to believe there are no consequences just so you can feel better about not harming their little minds with reality

  81. #81 |  Matt | 

    MADD has pushed puritanical values since their inception. Who else do you think raised the drinking age to 21 with false studies of “safety”?

    Honestly, their organization is about as close to radical as peta….and just as logical

    aka peta’s “this is bad, but this next to it (same thing) is a-okay”.

  82. #82 |  Jesse | 

    They did this at my wife’s school in Texas as well. She had to sit down with her students afterwards and defend the police and the school, which many of the students have “mysteriously” come to distrust or hold in contempt. What’s scary is that there are literally tens of thousands of adults active in this program, many of whom are teachers or police officers, and not a single one of them has the basic common sense necessary to recognize this as a bad idea. Our most trusted public positions are staffed almost entirely by incompetent morons.

  83. #83 |  Arcabana | 

    To “Mack”:
    “I think the children of the organizers of this attack on our children should to be told that their parent was killed while conducting a a no knock raid on an innocent citizen.

    After all if it makes even one of them know how corrupt their parent is then it is worth it.”

    So I’m not even going to comment on this awful, awful english.
    I am going to comment on the fact that there is a clue inherent in the name “Mothers against drink driving” which somewhat implies the children of the organisers “of this attack” are all dead as a result of drink driving. Whilst I agree with most points people have made about this being morally bankrupt, this is the single dumbest thing I have read in years, the bible notwithstanding.

  84. #84 |  Sol Rosenburg | 

    God forbid that someone tries to teach a little lesson to a generation of kids who’s parents don’t. And of course, some people first reaction is to sue. The lack of parenting that some people give to there precious little snowflakes is what is going to destroy the future. Come on people, make your kids accountable, quit protecting these kids every move, let them learn.

    Sol

  85. #85 |  Ralph | 

    I think people over react these days. Come on, get over it. The worst thing are these over protective parents who go over board protecting their poor little wimps, suing ever one who looks at their kid the wrong way. Todays children are rewarded for doing nothing to protect their self-esteem and are raised to be too sensitive to take any criticism. Back in the day, the scariest thing a police officer or teacher to do was to call your parents. Today the kids want their parents to be called because the parents will always side with the kids. Now these kids are entering the workforce and are completely useless. They expect to be paid without working for it and show little initiative. And ,oh yah -threaten to sue if you point out any mistakes they make (such as showing up for work late, etc.) -Thanks Parents

  86. #86 |  Paul | 

    rational,
    We’re trying to sue the people “protecting the children”? Maybe you don’t get it: we don’t need self-righteous bastards pushing their neo-prohibitionist agenda to “protect the children”. As many have already said, the best thing about this program is it teaches people not to trust the government and neo-prohibitionists. Our children don’t need “protection” from drinking or doing drugs. They know the risks and letting the police and MADD try to scare them into submission won’t work. If they drink or do drugs, it’ll be because they choose to and we really can’t stop that. If anyone can stop it, it’ll parents and peers who actually understand and respect the kid, not pigs and liars who exploit him (or her) to push their own agenda. Go fuck yourself.

  87. #87 |  Shawn | 

    Wow, are you guys even looking at the message this was giving? DON’T F***ING DRINK AND DRIVE! A scare tactic is only good if people are SCARED. I swear, if none of you “parents” actually use that on your kids so they won’t do anything bad. (I.E. sex/pregnancy, misbehave/spankings, breaking the law/jail time, etc.) then you aren’t doing your jobs as parents and should be 100% ashamed at yourself. If you were doing a Better Job as parents, this cop wouldn’t have to do these demonstrations.

  88. #88 |  sim | 

    When I was in high (school many years ago) our teachers thought it would be educational if they assembled all the seniors and then announced that a nuclear exchange had commenced between the USSR and the USA. People were crying and cursing. No one was sued, but they should have been.

  89. #89 |  sim | 

    Dear rational:

    I just called you mom and told her that you’re dead. She took it pretty well.

  90. #90 |  Rich | 

    RE: Grant Gould

    How could you say not to trust a cop? It’s funny, as someone who is trying hard to become a police officer, all I’ve learned about people who don’t trust the police is that they are either party-animals who hate when the police break up their party or “kill the buzz”, and the other group being lifetime losers who can’t stay out of the penal system. I wonder which of these two groups you fall into…

    On the topic of MADD, when I returned from Baghdad after 15 months on New Year’s Eve 2007, we had to attend some reintegration training about a week later. One of the mandatory briefings was from MADD, and while their message is well intended the delivery leaves something to be desired. There we were, hundreds of recent Iraq vets and some of us coming home from second tours, forced to watch videos and hear testimonials from people who had lost children to drunk drivers in the area we’re stationed at. It was really disturbing and hard to get our heads around since we’d just returned from Iraq. They mean well, but don’t execute in the right way.

  91. #91 |  chris | 

    They did this at my school. It was one of the best things my school ever did. It was in no way as bad as it sounds. There was no hysteria and after about 5 minutes the “ghost” of the student walks in and takes you to the accident scene. It is a staged scene and is very effective at reminding kids of how important some decisions are. You “parents” are acting like over sugared kindergardners. Maybe if some of you introduced your precious snowflakes to the real world and not MTV they wouldn’t need stuff like this.

  92. #92 |  gregoro | 

    Mad Dog Mothers indeed!! I hope the spawn of everyone of these bitter skanks that lost a child to a drunk driver is rotting in hell right now. Anyone that willfully supports this useless organization is a fascists Nazi, especially the pig cops that should be out fighting real crime.

  93. #93 |  Lee | 

    A noble cause does not justify the intentional affliction of emotional distress.

  94. #94 |  www.buzzflash.net | 

    Absolute MADDness…

    Many juniors and seniors were driven to tears – a few to near hysterics – May 26 when a uniformed police officer arrived in several classrooms to notify them that a fellow student had been killed in a drunken-driving accident. The officer read a br…

  95. #95 |  Hoopy | 

    I can see what they were thinking when they did this, but with that said what idiots. I myself went through the windshield of a car at 4 years old due to a drunk driver. I throughout life make people take a cab, or stop them from drinking if they are driving. There are much better ways to get the point across. They should realize now most of these kids will never trust any teacher or police officer again. Also the damage done to them making them think there close friends are dead is just to horrible to think about. I had a friend get killed while I was in high school in a car accident. No drugs or alcohol was involved at all. I now have a 4 month old son, and am already back in college so I can pay to put him in private school so he will not be put through something like this ever.

  96. #96 |  Judi | 

    To the people who think it was ‘okay’ to do this…

    Did your parents give your head a SWIRLY in the toliet when you were a kid? Because you lost something when they FLUSHED.

    I am a former paramedic AND a current PARENT. I can assure you that if this had been ‘staged’ at my son’s school…I’d have their asses on court so fast it would make Judge Judy stammer.

    Shock and awe was a thing they did in IRAQ. Not with MY CHILD!

    I believe in teaching and showing our children right from wrong and what reality truly is however, this is was so far-fetched I don’t think Stephen King could have made it up.

  97. #97 |  Charlie | 

    This kind of stunt is why the original founder of MADD distanced herself from the organization. This is NOT what she intended the message to be.

    As for us “whiners”; you must not realize how devastating losing a friend or even a classmate’s death would be on a teenagers’ mind. At this stage in theirs lives, emotions are heightened, body chemistry is all out of whack, and one’s friends can be lifelines to one’s sanity.

    Parents should have been informed. We parents have been accused (often) of not caring for our children properly, but when we take the steps to do what you accuse us of not doing, we get called whiners. These are OUR children. Not the school’s nor the government’s.

  98. #98 |  Judi | 

    That should have read: Have their asses IN court!

  99. #99 |  Judi | 

    I asked my son, a teenager what he would do and how he would feel if they had done this to him…

    His response: [quote] “Mom, I would lose all the respect I have for authority. I would never be able to TRUST anyone or take them at their word anymore…even if it were the POPE himself. This would be only after and IF I ever got over the trauma it would inflict on me and the other srudents.” [unquote]’

    ‘Nuff said.

  100. #100 |  Jigsaw | 

    Warning: This is not for the squeamish. Pass it up if you are.

    Ok…. Ok….. no more fun and games like MADD and cops pulled. Let’s do it the right way. We take the students down to the Medical Examiner’s office. We bring them into the work room (or whatever it is called where you live). The you must Pretend that you are lying on the table, naked…. not a stitch of cloths on. You have no dignity. You have no self-respect. You have nothing. In this particular case you are only a teaching aid. The ME tells the kids that the person who this used to be no longer exists. He is gone. All that is left is hunk of something of no earthly value.

    The ME explains that a Medical/LegalAutopsy has to perform in all unattended or suspicious deaths. Then he or she explains that in order to determine the cause of death, the body must be opened up. Now…this is how we do it. First we make an incision from the left shoulder to the sternum, then from the right should to the sternum and then down to the pubic area. As the abdomen opens your first introduction of the smell of death is brought into your life. It is not a nice smell. It is rotting meat that has been in the sun to long. It is decomposing flesh. It is the bacteria at work, breaking down the individual cell.

    Then we pick up a tree pruner (Available at any hardware store for about $12.00. and clip the rib cage open, peel the rib cage back, and flense the flesh (This means the skin and bone is separated with a real real sharp knife.

    The first thing that we look at up, students, is theheart. We separate it from the interior of the cadaver, lift it out and examine it closely. It is not considered appropriate to sing something like “I lost My Heart in San Francisco” or “Heart of My Heart” in a duet with the ME and his/her assistant.

    Then we get to the gory stuff. In the interest of bandwidth I terminate this by mentioning only one thing. All those parts are taken out of the body and examined with a small portion being sliced, sliced, diced and preserved in a small jar. What do you think happens to the blood? What happens to the body parts? Answer: the blood is washed down the drain, with the water probably being recycled.

    As for the body parts, they are dumped into a heavy duty garbage bag (available at your local grocery store for less than ten dollars for fifteen large bags) and then shoved into the body cavity. Then the incisions (cuts are a better word) are sewn up with broad stitches and off you go. Your are put on display and people you would not ordinarily associate with look at you and shake their heads sadly. Your school mates are the best part. They scream and cry hysterically whether they ever met you or not. It is all very entertaining to the unbiased observer.

    Oh yea, I never did mention the part about how they examine your brain. You see, they take this high speed electric saw……. Ahh hell, that’s enough for now.

    Maybe you should not have had that last drink.

    Now Isn’t this a lot better then what those nasty MADD people and cops pulled?

    And then the lid of your coffin closes and you are alone and it is dark and cold, lonely and forever.

    This has been Submitted by a real live retired Crime Scene Technician who breaks out into hystericval laughter every time CSI comes on.

  101. #101 |  Seanna | 

    I wish that I could say I agree or disagee with what they did. It sucks. It was stupid.

    My daughter by the time she graduated highschool had lost *9* of her friends to fatal car accidents.

    NO CHILD SHOULD GO THROUGH THAT.

    NO FAMILY SO GO THOUGH THAT.

    This was all one school system.

  102. #102 |  Allison | 

    I’ve seen both sides of the argument, and I have to say that I think although they have good intentions, it was implemented poorly. I’m in college now, fresh out of high school (yeah, most of you stopped reading now), but I remember there were a few deaths while I was in high school (none related to alcohol). One of them was a good friend of mine, and it was extremely difficult to deal with. If they had come in and said an hour later, “Haha! Just kidding.” I would’ve been too angry to sit down and say, “Gee! I really learned an important lesson!” We had something at our school where someone dressed as Death would come in and pick a student, paint their face white, and for the rest of the day they couldn’t interact with anyone. This made people think about the consequences without causing any emotional harm. I’ve never heard of this “Every 15 Minutes” program, so if it happened to me, I’d definitely have a problem.

    High school kids are pretty fragile, and the reason violent video games and the graphic media aren’t causing kids to become emotional cripples is because they know it’s FAKE. When you come to a kid and tell them that a friend has died, they know that it’s different than a character in a video game where you get another chance.

    It’s important to get the message across, but making kids scared and distrustful of authority and adults in general isn’t the right way to do it. My parents just went ahead and raised me properly.

  103. #103 |  Joe | 

    These comments are what is wrong, not this stupid stagged tragedy. Kids are coddled way to much these days. They should be scared, they should think about what it would be like to loose a classmate. Nobody should be sued, we are all to sue happy in this country. I agree the staging is a bit over the top and MADD is probably out of control, like many other well meaning organizations, but get over it. No one was really hurt and if teens cannot deal with a fake drama how are they going to face “the real world”?

  104. #104 |  Jerry | 

    Andrew, Nexus and rational – you three are part of the problem (MAD is worse) with this country these days. Sheeple such as yourselves who go by the “If It Only Save One Life” mantra are the biggest disgrace there is as you think that trampling the rights of people justifies the crap you spout. You three are so pathetic, you don’t even deserve a rational response.

  105. #105 |  The Other Jeff | 

    there is a clue inherent in the name “Mothers against drink driving” which somewhat implies the children of the organisers “of this attack” are all dead as a result of drink driving.
    The name implies they’re all mothers, which isn’t true, and this story is about a deception organized by MADD, so why trust that clue? But assuming what you say is true, their tragedy does not give them the right to decide how my son is educated about the evils of drinking and driving, nor does it give validity to their policy positions. Having an honest motivation does not automatically mean their actions are effective.

  106. #106 |  Packratt | 

    Burt says: “Most of the people making negative comments about officer Newberry would be the first ones to condemn him if one of their sweet little snowflakes got killed by a drunk driver”

    Burt, if one of my kids got hurt by a drunk driver I’d condemn the driver responsible for the wreck. Sheesh, the concept of personal responsibility is utterly lost on some people.

    Michelle says: “you know you are all a bunch of whiners…”

    I dunno, let’s put this into a different context. If a POW were subjected to this kind of intentional psychological distress as a method of inducing cooperation it would be termed a war crime. Our own soldiers are forbidden from using psychological coercion of this type on enemy combatants per the Geneva Convention. (Gitmo notwithstanding) What makes you think it’s ok for teachers teachers and police officers to do to kids what soldiers are forbidden to do to POWs?

    Do the ends really justify the means? If so, where do you draw the line? The slippery slope says you’d 100% efficacy by locking up all teenagers to make sure they never drive drunk. After all, if you’re going to punish them for something they never did just to keep em safe, might as well go all the way, huh?

    BTW, I was almost killed by a drunk driver when I was young, I’m pretty avidly against drunk driving. However, I don’t advocate inflicting psychological harm on innocent people as a realistic or justifiable method of law enforcement.

  107. #107 |  Packratt | 

    (sorry for the typos, my old laptop is acting up)

  108. #108 |  thor | 

    you know the people who do the fake hostage situations, where a guy walks into a classroom, office, or something with a gun to test peoples reactions, kind of similar. ;although if someone I’ve never seen before pulls a shotgun in my office , Ill kill them to protect my friends and co-workers, Ill think about the remote possibility of it being a prank afterwards when the non-clowns are safe.

  109. #109 |  Joe | 

    Wow, the majority of you people seem to be actively participating in the wussification of America. These are young adults, if they are not mollycoddled by their helicopter parents they should be able to handle this. Do I support the technique? No. But is my first thought “Sue!” No. Children are so sheltered from reality nowadays it is no wonder why they cannot function once they are thrust into an adult society. What are children who have been sheltered from everything and given trophies for finishing last and never experienced “losing” supposed to do when they are faced with rejection for the first time? How are they to cope? It is not their fault, it is their parents fault for being overprotective and creating a generation that cannot function independently. It is sickening.

  110. #110 |  Chris M | 

    To all of the posters who came out in support of the school’s tactics:

    It seems like a lot of your posts boil down to “Bah, parents these days don’t know how to discipline or raise their kids. The state should have the power to step in and fill that role in whatever manner they see fit.”

    Agree?

  111. #111 |  Adam | 

    Frankly, I think it’s brilliant. It gets students talking, it leaves a lasting impression and brings statistics off a page and close to home.

    To those of you claiming child abuse: Oh come off it. They’re teenagers. They see worse in media, hear of worse from friends and the news and will experience worse at some point in their lives, if they haven’t already. It’s an awareness campaign, and it’s gotten you lot so upset about it that it keeps people talking.

    Only in the US would this kind of thing lead to a lawsuit. Of all the parents I’ve spoken to, only a few have said it was borderline, and none have said it crossed it. It’s a fantastic way to get a message across.

    Stop protecting your precious little children and let them grow up a bit. Whether they admit it or not, teens are drinking underaged and, with their parents buying them cars more than ever, they’re driving earlier too. Put 2 and 2 together and snap out of it.

    This kind of thing is necessary. This generation has been so desensitized to ‘shock and awe’ tactics that we need to keep pushing the limits.

    Stop complaining and start realizing that life is harsh. If that gives you some kind of emotional turmoil, then you can go ahead and sue me, personally.

  112. #112 |  Tony | 

    Oh for gods sakes, get over it you bleeding hearts. “Child abuse”? “lawsuits”? “emotional wrecks”? You people are the reason these damn kids are the way they are. Its a generation of entitlement and its the bleeding heart “oh my poor baby” parents that have made them this way. . These kids think the world owes them something. You bunch of bleeding heart jerks! Come and work with me in the ER as a RN and try to keep one of these kids alive after they crash their car in a drunken state. Help me hold pressure on a kids head while the brains are coming out of the fracture in the skull, Come help me talk to a mom and dad whose little 17 year old just died after they hit a tree while driving while drunk. Come and talk to a grandmother with me and try to tell her why a drunk 20 year old killed her only grandchild. Come walk a mile in my shoes. You people make me sick. You would rather a kid die a drunk then have some “trauma” because they were tricked to believe someone may have died. Well listen, for you bleeding hearts, the next kid that dies, I hope he is your kid and not some inocent kid that gets hit by a drunk high schooler. Jesus, I am so upset at you bleeding hearts that words just can’t describe it.

  113. #113 |  Joe | 

    Chris M.,

    That is the antithesis of what I am saying. Parents are responsible for disciplining their children, it is not a state’s responsibility. However, the lack of discipline prevelant with today’s “my child does no wrong” parents results in the state being required to step in when these ill-prepared for reality young adults make the inevitable mistakes that result from their being incredibly sheltered.

    Nice bait though.

  114. #114 |  Jeremy C | 

    Reminds me of the “lessons” from Arrested Development.

    “That’s why…you don’t drive drunk.”

  115. #115 |  clarence | 

    first, these children are in the system by coercion (the threat of violence against their parents if they do not attend).

    second, the ‘educators’ (so called) have agendas which have little to do with education and much to do with indoctrination.

    third, to have outside organizations with their own agendas come in to cause anxiety, confusion and fear is not in the best interests of the children or the parents.

    the actions taken in this instance are so egregious that legal action should be taken immediately against those who participated in any way.

    this story only highlights how terribly low our country has fallen and begs the question ‘how much farther can we fall?’

    clarence

  116. #116 |  Brian | 

    A lot of people here are falling into the “pro authority” or “anti authority” camps. Regardless of whether you like or dislike parents, teachers, cops etc, there is a point to be made that kids will do dumb stuff.

    Sometimes its all the kids fault, sometimes its peer pressure, sometimes its bad parenting. The methods might be harsh, but shouldn’t this be judged on how many of these kids actually get behind a wheel drunk? How many of these kids will go out of their take their friends keys?

    This isn’t an issue of “letting kids think for themselves.” It’s an issue of making them understanding the emotional consequences of decisions BEFORE a disaster.

  117. #117 |  Brandon | 

    What the hell is wrong with everyone? Lawsuit this, lawsuit that? What ever happened to simply taking grievances to the school board and the “Letters to the Editor” section of the newspaper? $50 says you wouldn’t have time to hire a lawyer, you’d be too busy driving your precious snowflake back and forth to completely unnecessary psychotherapist sessions.

    When I was in high school, we lost a Junior, my across-the-street neighbor. He was driving a friend’s truck, drunk, and t-boned a car doing about 55 in the dark, and didn’t have his seatbelt on. He hit the steering wheel, and separated his ribs from his sternum, which caused his chest and abdomen to basically explode all over the inside of the truck. The fucking cops called his father out to the scene. And didn’t even cover the body. Needless to say, his dad became an alcoholic that night.

    We saw the consequences with the funeral, the grief, but did anybody learn just knowing it? No. His sister went out the *next weekend* and wrecked her car. Drunk? You betcha. At a stupid teenager “We’ll remember you, bro” type party. She survived, with only a few cuts and bruises, but did anyone learn anything? No.

    So, her dad asked the school to put the car out in the parking lot. “No”, they said, “it would be a safety hazard and be emotionally traumatizing.”

    The mayor, who has a son my age, offered the easement between the sidewalk and the street, and they put her car there for two weeks. Every time we looked outside, every time we came to school, went home from school, every time we drove by, we had to physically see the consequences and go “My God, how the hell did she survive that?!” Were any of us traumatized by it? Fuck yes we were. We got to see that our actions have consequences to ourselves, our property, our family, and our community.

    Would it have worked using a stranger’s car? Nope. Would an hour long lecture (which we would have slept through) have worked? Nope. But it struck home this time, just like I’m sure it did in the above instance. Which would you prefer? Feel like someone has died for 1-2 hours, see what happens and how it effects everyone, or find out someone *has* died, and there’s no coming back from a stupid decision? This way, they can reflect back and say “I am NOT putting anyone through this! (and, being teens with their sometimes “I can’t die!” mentality) I am NOT wrecking my new car!”

    The parents need to be educated too. Hold a parent’s meeting, and go over a few possible suggestions and say “They’re teens, they’re gonna do it whether you want them to or not. Deal with the issue, and just goddamn be there for them when they need you”. Something my parents (and the majority of the town’s parents after the accidents) said was “If you ever go out, and need a ride, call us. We’ll come get you, no questions asked. If something needs to be discussed, we’ll do it in the morning afterward.” Parenting a teen isn’t about being a tyrant, but compromise, understanding, and remembering that you were once a kid yourself, and pulled some major boners in your time.

    I do, however, agree that if the parents weren’t notified, they should have been.

    And remember, it’s not JUST the drunk driver that’s affected. How about the school bus that gets tossed off the road carrying 30 kids back from a basketball game? Or the family of 5 who are coming back from a night out at the movies because Dad got a long over-due promotion? Or the 10 cars that wreck because 1 person ran a red light while they were fishing around for their cell phone because their BFF Jill just HAD to comment on that hottie who was at the party?

    They’ll get over it, and hopefully learn a lesson about personal responsibility, which seems to be in short supply these days, as seen by all the frivolous lawsuits clogging our court systems.

    /end rant

  118. #118 |  Les | 

    Exactly, Chris. They go on about what kids need and don’t understand why we don’t you shut up and let the government just give it to them. Without even consulting the parents.

    They trust the government to do the right thing and educate our children about making healthy choices by lying to them, because the government has accomplished SO many wonderful things in education and helping our children make healthy choices by lying to them.

    Go, Government!

  119. #119 |  Les | 

    “…and don’t understand why we don’t shut up…”

    Damned late night typing.

  120. #120 |  Pseudojym | 

    High School circa 1980’s: we are shown actual footage of car wrecks resulting from alcohol, speed or carelessness. Nothing held back, nothing faked – eyeballs hanging out, torn and burned flesh and everything else. This was in Jersey, so make of that what you will, but a few things were different then and there. The parents would rather have had their kids horrified than dead or crippled. We didn’t run home into the arms of our lawyers, everyone cracked wise, but we all knew the purpose. Message stuck with some of us. Those who didn’t wish to watch just closed their eyes. No imaginary leftist agenda, just teachers who gave a rip. So, that’s my 2 cents.

  121. #121 |  Islander | 

    I’ve got an idea. How about we send cops to the doors of MADD members first thing in the morning and tell them whichever member of their family didn’t die in the last drunk driving accident bought the farm last night. See how that feels.

  122. #122 |  Julia | 

    This program has been going on for a long while. Every 15 minutes came to my highschool in April of 2000 when I was 16. Though the experience was very powerful for me, I did not have any emotional problems afterwards. What I learned was that I was mortal, and so were the people I love. I decided from that moment on I would always make sure that the people I care about know I care about them and would do anything to protect them. Every 15 Minutes is a great program that has touched many lives and I hope they continue.

  123. #123 |  RevolutionRadio.org » Blog Archive » Absolute MADDness | 

    […] TheAgitator.com […]

  124. #124 |  Stuff to Look At - 6/2/08 | s00per.com ( · )( · ) hand check! | 

    […] Worst “syke!” story I’ve read in a while (Story) Tornado chasers get caught (Video) That, like, has to, like, be, like, the most likes, like, in, like, a conversation in, like, ever (Video) […]

  125. #125 |  Concerned Citizen | 

    For those who are objecting to this program, I hope you have to sit there in the hospital and watch a loved one die slowly and painfully. You will then wish someone had talked tough to the person who did it to them. You people sicken me.

  126. #126 |  Red Green | 

    Just prohibit alcohol again. That will stop drunk driving. Just like prohibiting some drugs has stopped drug use. Fear has always been the greatest motivator, especially when “sheeple “are involved.

  127. #127 |  Chris M | 

    Joe,

    This:

    “Parents are responsible for disciplining their children, it is not a state’s responsibility.”

    and this:

    “However, the lack of discipline prevelant with today’s “my child does no wrong” parents results in the state being required to step in when these ill-prepared for reality young adults make the inevitable mistakes that result from their being incredibly sheltered.”

    Do not compute.

    You say it’s required that the state step in when parents shelter or fail to discipline their kids. Who gets to decide when a parent has failed in this manner? Should the state also be required to step in when, say, a parent lets their kid listen to satanic rock music? After all, this can lead to antisocial behavior and, in extreme cases, suicide and/or violence against others. Yes, I’d say the extreme cases fall under the category of “ill-prepared for reality young adults making the inevitable mistakes that result from their being incredibly sheltered.” Something must be done.

    Also, just so you know, my reaction to this story was not “lawsuit time!”

  128. #128 |  Bronwyn | 

    Since I plan to homeschool, I will have control over this aspect of my children’s education. I do plan to offer up a little hard reality. My cousin was killed by a drunk driver, another died just last week in a reckless driving accident.

    Teaching kids that a vehicle can be a lethal weapon when used inappropriately is a good thing, but I want them to learn that lesson in a controlled environment.

    I was thinking a trip to a morgue, a trip to see cars that have been scrapped after accidents, a trip to a juvenile detention center, all will serve to show my kids that every choice comes with consequences and that poor choices can lead to tragic consequences.

    I do wish the parents had been notified, and that the charade hadn’t just been about driving drunk. How about driving while sleepy? While applying mascara? While horsing around with your buddies? While speeding like a bat out of hell? While eating? The possibilities are endless and certainly not limited to driving drunk.

  129. #129 |  The Other Jeff | 

    For those who are objecting to this program, I hope you have to sit there in the hospital and watch a loved one die slowly and painfully.

    What makes you think this program would prevent that? How much are you willing to torment someone else’s children in order to satisfy your desire that Somebody Do Something (TM)?

    Not a lot of bleeding hearts among the regulars here. We’re not interested in protecting our children from the harsh realities of the world, but we are interested in protecting them from well-meaning fools with tax dollars in their pockets who think they should take over our job as parents.

  130. #130 |  Mandi | 

    So..in this article, forgets to mention.. They do this at lots of high schools. They do it in my home town every year. They used to try and keep it secret. But know they make it look like the car crash was in the football field. They go all out.

  131. #131 |  SamIam | 

    Unless the cop had the “victim’s” and his parents’ permission to declare him dead, he has committed defamation. It’s basic knowledge in the news biz that if you publish the fact someone died who in fact has not, that is libel per se, for which there is no defense.
    Sue the cop, the police department, the town and the school district, and sue MADD for originating the scam. That oughta slow them down.

  132. #132 |  Shawn | 

    Back in the old days (graduated in ’88) we came to school one morning and had this twisted piece of metal that used to be a car on the grounds in front of the main entrance of the school. It was completely trashed and had about a dozen or so beer cans around it.

    I understood the point that it was trying to make, but it wasn’t “REAL” (since it was just some car towed in and dropped in the middle of our lawn) and as such, it didn’t have any impact on us as students, including apparently the one that died roughly a month later from drunk driving. That incident made us all stop and take note.

    While I’m not saying I’m in “agreement” with the tactic, we’ve come a long way in the 18 years since I’ve graduated college in terms of what our kids are exposed to on a regular basis and the officer is right in the fact that if he sat everyone down in a auditorium and rambled on for an hour about how they shouldn’t drink and drive, not only would he not get listened to, but he would probably get laughed at trying to get a rise while someone else video’d it all looking for their 15 minutes of fame on you tube or face book.

    I would check back with those same students that were angry as they enter their prom/party nights in the weeks to come and see how many are excited about going out and drinking a few before heading home, or if the thought of it might just trigger an image of an empty seat and a rose – we hate the tactic, but with today’s internet/cnn world where you are slammed with “reality” 24/7, sometimes some “ultra-reality” is what it might just take to stop just one senseless death.

  133. #133 |  claude | 

    Sure makes ya long for the good old days when they just took the kids to the morgue to see the dead bodies of those involved in dui crashes.

    (end sarc)

  134. #134 |  Les | 

    Wow, Concerned Citizen. You “care” so much about drunk driving that you hope people who disagree with a primitive teaching method will “have to sit there in the hospital and watch a loved one die slowly and painfully.”

    I believe you when you say that you’re sickened, because that’s a pretty sick point of view.

  135. #135 |  Dave_D | 

    The hell of it is that in most of these schools a kid wearing a shirt with a picture of a weapon of any kind on it would be sent home or suspended because it might traumatize other students but this is OK.

    How can people with their heads this far up their ass drive anyway?

  136. #136 |  Drunk Driving Hysteria and the Neo-Prohibitionists - Political Fever - The Political Debate Forums | 

    […] let them sob uncontrollably for an hour. "Psyche! Just kidding! Wear a condom!" (Hat tip to Radley Balko’s Agitator blog.) __________________ Libertarians: Trying to get people to mind their own business since 1971. […]

  137. #137 |  Joe | 

    Chris M.,

    Perhaps I need to clarify so you can see the computation. When I refer to states “stepping in” I mean the actions they take when coddled and pampered children run afoul of the law or a tragedy occurs. No matter how closely a parent’s helicopter hovers, their children will eventually be on their own (although nowadays it seems like parents treat even their adult children like they are immature kids) and need to fend for themselves. More and more cannot fend for themselves due to growing up in parent created bubbles sheltered from any whiff of reality.

  138. #138 |  jadep | 

    I completely agree with this!! If it makes them stop and think for an hour of how life would be if it were true like it is for SOOOOO many in this world every 15 min then so be it. Obviously everything else they have tried isn’t working. Teens are still under the impression that they are incivinsible and nothing will happen to them or some of their friends.
    So be it scare the living crap out of them!!!! Not only did it make the mourn someone they liked or loved but it made them mad at a person who could do this.
    That person could be themselves or one of their friends.
    There are alot of Teenagers out there who know that slot of their friends do drink and drive from a party or bar and no one has the guts to say HEY u better not.

  139. #139 |  Preston | 

    If it makes only one person think twice before trusting a cop… It will have all been worth it.

  140. #140 |  Preston | 

    If it makes only one person think twice before trusting a cop… It will have all been worth the price.

  141. #141 |  Bob | 

    WTF? “Traumatized?” “Child abuse?” Sometimes MADD goes too far, but you spinless twerps are taking this to a whole new level.

    It’s called “Shattered Dreams” and has been going on for MANY years. I personally participated in such an event nearly 20 years ago. It really does have an effect on the kids, but to call it child abuse is just ridiculous. Patting them on their little pampered heads and saying “Now now Hayley, don’t do that” isn’t going to work. Bringing reality into their lives without actually having someone die WORKS.

  142. #142 |  Brady Jester | 

    this is a very good example of drunk driving for students. this is such a good way to bring the effects of a drunk driving into a real feeling for students. this is not child abuse because the students volunteered to do this. and if you want to argue about that fact, don’t, because we had a similar exercise at my high school, and all the students volunteered for it. plus students need to feel that “pain” so to speak, so they won’t make the mistake of drinking and driving. and if you don’t like then suck it up, because that’s what happens in real life.

  143. #143 |  Jim Collins | 

    The main issue that I have with MADD is the way that they inflate their statistics to make the drunk driving problem look worse than it really is. Do a little quick math here. 1 every 15 minutes equals 4 per hour. Multiply that by 24 and then by 365 and you get 35,040.
    In 2006, the most recent year that I could find statistics for, the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration reported that there were 15,829 ALCOHOL-RELATED motor vehicle deaths. Just a bit over HALF of that 35,040 number.

    When you consider what the NHTSA defines as alcohol-related the numbers get really skewed. NHTSA’s definition of alcohol-related is “A motor vehicle crash is considered to be alcohol-related if at least one driver or non-occupant (such as a pedestrian or pedalcyclist) involved in the crash is determined to have had a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of .01 gram per deciliter (g/dL) or higher. Thus, any fatality that occurs in an alcohol-related crash is considered an alcohol-related fatality. The term ‘alcohol-related’ does not indicate that a crash or fatality was caused by the presence of alcohol.”
    Take notice of the last sentence. This means that not ALL of those 15,829 deaths were CAUSED by drivers under the influence of alcohol.

    Last but not least, the NHTSA admits that they use a statistical model to determine if accidents that they don’t have enough information on are alcohol-related.

    From the NHTSA’s website. “Estimates of alcohol involvement in fatal crashes for the U.S. are based on data from NHTSA’s Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS). Known BAC [Blood Alcohol Content] test results are not available for all drivers and non-occupants involved in fatal crashes for a number of reasons, most frequent of which is that persons are not always tested for alcohol. To address missing data, NHTSA has developed and employs a statistical model to estimate the likelihood that a fatal crash involved driver or non-occupant was sober (zero BAC), had some alcohol (BAC of 0.01-0.09) or was intoxicated (BAC of 0.10) at the time of the crash. The statistical model was developed using all available known data in the aggregate (that is, at the national level) and applied to each individual driver and non-occupant with an unknown BAC test result. The estimates include a mix of both known and estimated BACs.”—(DOT HS 809 334).

    Then the disclaimer. “It is necessary to emphasize that none of the tabulations presented can be interpreted as implying a direct causal relationship between alcohol use and any other attribute of fatal crashes. Inferences concerning causality can only be made on the basis of additional data that is independent of the FARS data.”

    See what I mean about MADD’s data.

  144. #144 |  Les | 

    Patting them on their little pampered heads and saying “Now now Hayley, don’t do that” isn’t going to work. Bringing reality into their lives without actually having someone die WORKS.

    Everyone keeps saying it works. I’d like to see some evidence that it does. And what is your background regarding adolescent development and education? I only ask because you seem so certain about what “works.”

    I may be a radical, but I think it’s possible to teach kids not to drive drunk without lying to them. And even though the government (which does SUCH a good job of teaching kids SO not many things!) believes lying to kids is a good way of teaching them to drive drunk, certainly they should ask the permission of parents before going through with such a sophisticated teaching method.

  145. #145 |  Junior | 

    // Come and work with me in the ER as a RN and try to keep one of these kids alive after they crash their car in a drunken state. Help me hold pressure on a kids head while the brains are coming out of the fracture in the skull, Come help me talk to a mom and dad whose little 17 year old just died after they hit a tree while driving while drunk. Come and talk to a grandmother with me and try to tell her why a drunk 20 year old killed her only grandchild. Come walk a mile in my shoes. You people make me sick. //

    No, Tony, you make me sick. People like you have bought and now spread the notion that alcohol makes crashes more tragic than those caused by sober drivers. For every story you shared about alcohol, you have two that didn’t involve alcohol. Are we suppose to believe telling those families aren’t difficult or that those families aren’t devastated??? I’ve never heard a parent say thank God my child wasn’t killed by a drunk driver.

    Your MADD agenda is transparent. As is all these other posters who claim such a program is good. It’s obvious you all pray at the alter of MADD.

    Ironically the number of fatalities involving a drunk teenage driver is less than THREE PERCENT. Inexperience and speed causes far MORE wrecks than alcohol. MADD’s message of don’t drink & drive and everything will be okay is misleading.

    When this drama production includes every other aspect of driving dangers, I might believe it’s about saving lives. Until then, it’s nothing more than an opportunity to spread the MADD propaganda.

  146. #146 |  Tara | 

    While I feel bad that the kids affected by this were certainly “confused, hurt, and angry”, I can’t argue with the point behind it.

    Seems to me that kids today (and I have one) are desensitized to danger and the consequences of drinking and driving, so maybe this will prod them into thinking about the horror they felt when the choice presents itself.

    I would rather my son be confused, hurt, and angry for a few days, than dead due to either his actions or his friends.

  147. #147 |  The Other Jeff | 

    I went to every15minutes.com and read about their program. It doesn’t seem to involve deceiving students about their classmates being dead, so I wonder if the El Camino incident is unusual. (The web page does, however, make the “every 15 minutes in the US” fatality claim, which appears to be a lie–my scratch-paper calculation would put the annual fatality rate in the US at 35,000, which is more than double the actual rate of the recent years I’ve looked at).

    There’s a summary report on that site, indicating positive results for 1999-2000. However, there’s an article in the Fall, 2000, American Journal of Health Studies suggesting that while student attitudes were affected by the program, their behavior was not. I wonder if whoever planned the El Camino event was aware of the doubts and tried to up the ante?

    Hmm. Turns out the Wikipedia entry for “every 15 minutes” points out both the journal article and the dubious stats.

  148. #148 |  Les | 

    I would rather my son be confused, hurt, and angry for a few days, than dead due to either his actions or his friends.

    So would we all, but this presumes an either/or situation and the government gets to make the decision.

    It does take more time and effort, but it’s quite possible to instill in kids a sense of responsibility without lying to them that friends and acquaintances are dead. The government has a terrible track record of scaring kids into good behavior (which is a primitive, simplistic, and ultimately ineffective method anyway).

    The bottom line is, parents should at least have been asked if they wanted the school and the police to lie to their kids that their friends were dead in the hopes that it would make them not drive drunk.

  149. #149 |  Junior | 

    /// plus students need to feel that “pain” so to speak, so they won’t make the mistake of drinking and driving. and if you don’t like then suck it up, because that’s what happens in real life. ///

    What does the school do to make students feel the pain so they won’t make the mistake of speeding or texting/dialing their cell phone while driving?

    As Jim Collins pointed out, the 15-minute is factually incorrect. I’m not sure what you define as a good education, but I’d imagine teaching students wrong facts would rate as poor.

  150. #150 |  Tara | 

    Les – I will agree that the parents should have been notified. I just can’t agree that parents on the whole are instilling a sense of responsibility in kids today.

    If they were, we wouldn’t be seeing all of these stories about fatal accidents involving young drivers.

    I normally would not have posted comments on something like this, but it disturbs me that so many people here are more worried about kids being “upset” over a false scare than the actual problem the police are trying to address.

    Thank you for your post.

  151. #151 |  Chris M | 

    Joe,

    Sure, when someone knowingly does something wrong and laws are broken, they should face legal repercussions. I’m with you on that one.

    Giving the state the power to “straighten these kids out” is not a viable solution. That is putting too much power in the hands of the government. If parents decide to raise their kids in a sheltered bubble, that’s their business. We’re in agreement in that I also think that’s a crappy way to raise a kid. However, that particular parenting method should not necessarily be undermined by the state just because it could someday indirectly lead to stupid decisions when the kid grows up. To me, that logic is the same as wanting to ban drugs just because sometimes some people make bad decisions while high.

  152. #152 |  Junior | 

    Tara – the VAST majority of fatalities involving a teenage driver doesn’t involve alcohol or drugs. So to say it should be okay for the school to allow MADD to teach kids a lesson based on incorrect and misleading facts is ridiculous.

    Keeping teenagers safe behind the wheel doesn’t begin and end with alcohol. And quite frankly, not stressing the other dangers is not only a disservice, but stupid.

  153. #153 |  Chris M | 

    Hmm, my two paragraphs above were intended to be responses to two different statements made by Joe. I’ll just redo the post as it should have originally looked. My apologizes.

    Joe,

    “When I refer to states “stepping in” I mean the actions they take when coddled and pampered children run afoul of the law or a tragedy occurs.”

    Sure, when someone knowingly does something wrong and laws are broken, they should face legal repercussions. I’m with you on that one.

    “More and more cannot fend for themselves due to growing up in parent created bubbles sheltered from any whiff of reality.”

    Giving the state the power to “straighten these kids out” is not a viable solution. That is putting too much power in the hands of the government. If parents decide to raise their kids in a sheltered bubble, that’s their business. We’re in agreement in that I also think that’s a crappy way to raise a kid. However, that particular parenting method should not necessarily be undermined by the state just because it could someday indirectly lead to stupid decisions when the kid grows up. To me, that logic is the same as wanting to ban drugs just because sometimes some people make bad decisions while high.

  154. #154 |  Tara | 

    Junior,

    I realize that alcohol isn’t the prevailing factor in accidents involving teens, but I still believe that it should be addressed. And I agree that the police need to stress the other dangers that affect teenage drivers.

    I’ve known 4 people in my life that were killed or seriously injured due to drunk driving – there were teenagers responsible in each instance.

    My point is that I’m not opposed to this tactic by police to bring home the fact that drinking and driving is the wrong choice. Just “telling” them doesn’t seem to have much of an effect.

    They do need to let parents know ahead of time, though.

  155. #155 |  The Other Jeff | 

    it disturbs me that so many people here are more worried about kids being “upset” over a false scare than the actual problem the police are trying to address.

    Don’t confuse my being pissed off by this article for a lack of concern about drunk driving.

  156. #156 |  Junior | 

    //// My point is that I’m not opposed to this tactic by police to bring home the fact that drinking and driving is the wrong choice. Just “telling” them doesn’t seem to have much of an effect. ///

    And who is going to teach kids that excessive speed and driver distractions are just as dangerous as driving drunk?

    I’m astounded that you don’t have a problem with the school, cops and MADD lying and misleading your kid! I guess your standards for a good education are pretty low.

  157. #157 |  Robert | 

    Does anyone have a link to the website of the school where this took place? Ive been through a few “El Camino High” sites, and none of them list Lori Tauber as a counselor.

    The reason I ask is that the situation presented here doesn’t match up to the “Every 15 Minutes” description on their website, and I want to get more information about it.

  158. #158 |  Tara | 

    Jeff – I’m not confused – didn’t mean to give that impression, if I did.

    Junior – I’m of the opinion that the police should be using similar “shock” tactics for excessive speed and driver distractions.

    And, of course, I have a problem with anyone who would lie or mislead my child. I do not think that is the case here.

    I find it unfortunate that you feel the need to insult me over an opinion. Seems that I should have followed my instinct in usually not posting to comment threads.

    I was looking for discussion – not personal insults.

  159. #159 |  The Other Jeff | 

    Robert:

    http://www.echs.oside.k12.ca.us

  160. #160 |  Robert | 

    Much obliged Jeff.

  161. #161 |  Junior | 

    \\\ Junior – I’m of the opinion that the police should be using similar “shock” tactics for excessive speed and driver distractions.

    Well, this program does NOT address similar tactics for speed or distractions. It is alcohol based only. No where does it mention speeding or distractive driving:

    [This emotionally charged program, entitled Every 15 Minutes, is an event designed to dramatically instill teenagers with the potentially dangerous consequences of drinking alcohol. This powerful program will challenge students to think about drinking, personal safety, and the responsibility of making mature decisions when lives are involved]

    \\\ And, of course, I have a problem with anyone who would lie or mislead my child. I do not think that is the case here. ///

    First off, the program’s title is a lie!

    [“Dear Mom and Dad, every fifteen minutes someone in the United States dies from an alcohol related traffic collision, and today I died. I never had the chance to tell you…….”]

    That statement within itself is a lie. Someone does NOT die every 15 minutes in an alcohol related traffic collision. See Jim Collins’ post above.

    It’s misleading to call these deaths “alcohol related” because it leads students and adults to assume “alcohol related” equates to “caused by drunk driver”. The actual number of deaths CAUSED by drunk drivers are impossible to know because the stats are not 100% accurate (as admitted by the NHTSA) AND they include crashes where there was no drunk driver (ie: drunk pedestrians killed by sober drivers).

    It’s also important to note that over 40% of all “alcohol related” fatalities involve one car where only the driver is killed. (ie: the drunks killed themselves by crashing into a tree).

    Which leads me to another misleading point in this program:
    […the student will return to class as the “living dead,”… From that point on “victims” will not speak or interact with other students]

    If a teenager drives drunk and kills himself or herself, are we to call that person a “victim” now?

    This program DOES lie and mislead. And there is no real evidence it saves lives. But if you’re willing to have the schools make kids “confused, hurt, and angry for a few days,” you should be willing to hear the truth about this program. If you’re offended by that, I’m sorry.

  162. #162 |  jamie | 

    When teachers and any person in an authority positions uses lie and scare tactics to educate a group of people, and that group of people is clearly aware of the use of deception, then they develop a schema in which the question to that authority body is, “well I suppose this is just another scare-me-striaght, right?”
    high schoolers aren’t dumb (when they are sober which is a good percentage of the day) and they know when something is over-the-top–but that does not make them immune to authority schema formation to which all human beings are prone. Cry wolf once, and you might as well tape your mouth shut. Don’t expect the students at this school to trust police education again.

  163. #163 |  jamie | 

    or to trust any drug-awareness education again for that matter–even the times when they do have the facts right. (um, and that is a rare occurence I am sure.)

  164. #164 |  Sam | 

    They did practically the same thing at our school. The ”15 minutes” demonstration… it’s horrible

  165. #165 |  supercat | 

    //And who is going to teach kids that excessive speed and driver distractions are just as dangerous as driving drunk?//

    For teaching kids about excessive speed, perhaps the police should bring in exhibit with three similar cars, one of which hit a barrier at 35mph, one at 50mph, and one at 65mph. They needn’t be “road wrecks”; in some ways it would be better if they were produced in a lab using calibrated equipment.

    While different cars would behave differently, I would expect that, for most models, the 35mph wreck would look survivable, the 50mph ‘survivable with luck’, and the 65mph ‘no way’. No need for sob stories or dramatics. Just ask “if you’re in a wreck, which car would you rather be in.”

  166. #166 |  supercat | 

    //It’s funny, as someone who is trying hard to become a police officer, all I’ve learned about people who don’t trust the police is that they are either party-animals who hate when the police break up their party or “kill the buzz”, and the other group being lifetime losers who can’t stay out of the penal system. I wonder which of these two groups you fall into…//

    I don’t fall into either of those categories (I rarely have more than a drink/hour, don’t use dope or other illicit drugs, and I’m not a criminal). Nonetheless, I find it hard to understand why any rational person would trust the police these days. Perhaps you can explain.

    I would think that if 51% of cops were of strong moral character, police unions would demand that cops who are caught breaking the law be punished severely. Instead, it seems police unions do everything possible to protect their members, even those who disgrace their membership. Why?

    I could understand if the police unions merely insisted upon giving cops the benefit of the doubt. Even in cases where malfeasance is undeniable, however, the police unions still protect cops. What inference can one draw, other than the fact that at least 51% of the union membership really doesn’t care?

    For police to legitimately enter someone’s property without permission, in the absence of clear exigent circumstances, they must have a legitimate warrant. Warrants may only be legitimately issued on the basis of oath or affirmation relating personal knowledge sufficient to demonstrate that (1) a crime was probably committed, and (2) the search would probably yield useful evidence of said crime. Can you explain why a government agent who forces his way into a dwelling, without either having what he reasonably believes to be a warrant meeting the above criteria or observing what he reasonably believes to be sufficient exigent circumstances, is not a burglar or robber? And way, if anyone dies as a result of such action, the agent is not a murderer?

  167. #167 |  sarah | 

    Get over it you idiots!

    They did this when I was in high school almost 10 years ago. It didn’t traumatize me. This should not even be a story….

  168. #168 |  dorri | 

    First off – in Canada – we don’t sue. We’ve done programs for racism similar to this using clap improv. Second as for impact of these types of programs; we had a very frank and explicit demonstration and talk about sex education that has stuck with me for over 10 years now.

    Death is permanent. How many of today’s young people get really exposed to death and the grief that comes with it? My grandmother dying of cancer because of smoking – never in my life will a cigarette end up in my mouth. The death of my mother’s twins because of domestic abuse – I will never leave a person at someone’s mercy.

    Our lives are shaped more by the traumas we survive then by all the happy cake and ice cream birthday parties combined.

    We only obey the laws of the land because of personal shame/guilt/accountability and fear of incarceration and labeling by the media and society. If children do not fear the consequences of their actions why would they stop doing something they know is harmful to themselves or others?

    There are parents in Canadian society who do not know the benefits of safe sex. They can’t teach their children. Hello the 13 year old with the baby and the 15 year old boy who is HIV. If the parents can’t teach, who will? Authority is lying, deceiving… Hello mommy? It’s 1am in the morning – where is your 16 year old right now?

    Unless you as a parent are willing to accept the responsibility and liability for your child’s actions for the rest of her/his life, then hard lessons are needed to make them into proper members of society.

    It’s sounds Marxist or extremist but everyone has a place and a role to perform.

    Bottom line time there parents (and yes I am one):

    If you don’t like the play — write your own. Get involved.
    Tune in to what your kid is doing.

  169. #169 |  matt | 

    I think > 167 comments speaks for itself. I didn’t read all of them but thought I would post my girlfriend’s response:

    “Oh my god; that’s sick!”

    We are appalled.

  170. #170 |  Chris M | 

    Sarah sez:

    “They did this when I was in high school almost 10 years ago. It didn’t traumatize me.”

    Case closed. Everyone can now stop talking about this.

  171. #171 |  Ralph | 

    Look, one my grandmothers died when I was 14 and the other died when I was 16. When I was in high school a girl committed suicide and the next year 3 kids were killed when they hit the end of a bridge. They were drunk and it was estimated they were going over 100mph. Sure I was upset when my grandparents died, sure I felt something for those others who died but I got over it. I can’t imagine how this could traumatize anyone. Things happen and in this case nothing happened. People need to stop over reacting.

  172. #172 |  Les | 

    I honestly don’t think any kids are “traumatized” by this.

    The point is that it’s not a good idea for cops and teachers to lie to kids in a primitive attempt to keep them from drinking and driving, without asking permission from parents.

    There’s no evidence that it works and plenty that it simply reminds kids not to trust authority figures.

    People frequently look for simple answers to complex problems, and the best place to find those simple answers is the government.

  173. #173 |  Dave_D | 

    //It’s funny, as someone who is trying hard to become a police officer, all I’ve learned about people who don’t trust the police is that they are either party-animals who hate when the police break up their party or “kill the buzz”, and the other group being lifetime losers who can’t stay out of the penal system. I wonder which of these two groups you fall into…//

    I see you becoming a cop with no problem. You’re already starting to regurgitate the bullshit and seem to have the attitude. If anyone doesn’t agree with the police they are automatically a suspect, they must be some sort of criminal. Maybe some of your work will make Radley’s column one day.

  174. #174 |  Wayne | 

    Wonder if these people could get away with yelling “fire” in a crowded movie theater to, you know, make young people realize how dangerous it is to panic under stress instead of filing out of the building in an orderly fashion? What a great way to teach kids! I’m going to call it “Safety Habits In Theaters.” Oh wait, the acronym …

  175. #175 |  Nick T | 

    “I would rather my son be confused, hurt, and angry for a few days, than dead due to either his actions or his friends.”

    I’d rather my son be sodmized and have his hand cut off than die from not looking both ways while crossing the street and getting hit by a bus. I propose we sodomize and cut off the hands of all students to teach them a lesson. Problem solved, baby!

    What is with all these people hating on both parents and children nowadays? Is the country and the world in so bad a state because of young parents and teenagers? It seems like everyone who is fucking up America and what it stands for are old powerful folks, not 17 year olds and their sheltered lives. You all just sound like curmudgeonly old people who hate “the reality tv” and “trashy pop culture” and that’s blinded you into thinking that crazy ass shit like this is somehow good. This clearly is inapporpriate for people to do to adolescents, but you’ve created a false dilemna where the only alternative is a “boring lecture” or a “fake reenactment.” There are many ways to bring the point home with real people and depictions, maybe horrific pictures shown to students with their parents permission, maybe a workshop to give parents some pointers on having the discussion with their kids about not driving drunk. The vast majority of high schoolers will not drive drunk on prom night, and the vast majority of those who do, won’t hurt anyone, yet you find it appropriate to emotional shock all of them? WTF? Also, don’t assume that this method will be effective, I imagine many kids will be so angry at the school and the police that the intended message will be totally lost.

    Shorter Joe: “No I don’t believe the government should be able to step in and teach values to your kids for their own safety – nice bait though! But seriously, the government should totally be able to step in and teach your kids values for their own safety.” hahaha.

    Concerned Citizen, really classy. In response let me just say that I hope you die. Today. Hit by a bus being driven by 13 sober as a led balloon nuns on their way to save 46 chidlren dying from cancer. Then no one will be able to skew your death as part of any sort of twisted politcal agenda born out of anger and frustration. “If those nuns had to kill one douche-bag on the way to saving 46 children, it was totally worth it.”

  176. #176 |  Hank | 

    Man,

    This is messed up, if this happened to my kid, I would strike down upon thee with great vengance and furious anger, and those MaDD folks will know that I am the drunk driver slamming into the rear of their Mini-vans.

    Hank: 25:17 The Path of 3 Lanes with no turn Signal

  177. #177 |  Sara | 

    At my school, the town did something similar. One of the teachers faked a heart attack and no one but the police and firemen knew. We all called 911 and I went to get the AED. When I came back, I found out it was all fake. So much for all my First Aid/CPR training! Anyway, now I am being made fun of for trying to do something!

  178. #178 |  Joe | 

    Ralph,

    People will only be “traumatized” by this because of adults like the majority of the posters here who are making an irrationally big deal out of the incident.

    Les,

    Nobody thinks it is a good idea to lie. However, was this even a lie? Was it a 15 minute to an hour lie? It was a questionable tactice but the intentions were good.

    Everyone wind down your helicopter rotors and stay on your pads for a bit, children need to learn through experiences.

  179. #179 |  Dave Krueger | 

    I don’t think the argument that it didn’t traumatize them is any defense. That’s like saying, “sure I smacked your kid around a bit, but it didn’t really hurt that much.”

    It’s a bad strategy because it’s baldly deceitful. Lying to someone to intentionally generate a loss of emotional control in front of their friends and classmates is not a teaching method.

    A mean trick is a mean trick regardless of the purity of your intentions. This is just another case of utter stupidity marching proudly forward behind the banner of saving kids. Next thing you know they’ll be telling kids they have aids to scare them into practicing safe sex.

  180. #180 |  Joe | 

    Dave K.,

    They don’t teach kids about safe sex, they teach them abstinence, which has worked really well, right?

    Here is a 60 minute piece on the mamby-generation all the helicopter parents are creating:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4126233n&channel=/sections/60minutes/videoplayer3415.shtml

  181. #181 |  Les | 

    Joe,

    Nobody thinks it is a good idea to lie.

    The cops who did this, and everyone who approves of it certainly think it was a good idea.

    However, was this even a lie? Was it a 15 minute to an hour lie?

    What the police told the students wasn’t true. That’s a lie. What else could it possibly be?

    It was a questionable tactice but the intentions were good.

    And we all know what the road to hell is paved with. We should all beware when the government has “good intentions.” I could make a long list of disasters brought about by the government’s “good intentions.”

    Everyone wind down your helicopter rotors and stay on your pads for a bit, children need to learn through experiences.

    I’m sure they did learn through this experience. They learned that cops and teachers lie and dishonestly try to manipulate their emotions when they have “good intentions.”

  182. #182 |  Les | 

    They don’t teach kids about safe sex, they teach them abstinence, which has worked really well, right?

    Right, they teach them thoughtlessly and dishonestly, just like this MADD program.

    Why do you trust the same government that fails in so many other ways regarding education to get this one right with primitive child-psychology that requires dishonesty?

  183. #183 |  Joe | 

    Les,

    Why have you turned this into a mass government conspiracy? If it is anything, it was a lapse in judgment that should be discussed openly, not through extreme statements and litigation. And I will go with you that a “lie is a lie”. However, the truth was told. Are children still taught to tell the truth nowadays or do parents just come up with excuses for them to avoid having to do so?

    It is easy to blame the government for all problems with education, but they are just one player. Parents who never think their child is wrong and will take nonsensical steps to make sure their snowflake never has to feel bad (“Your report is due tomorrow but you haven’t completed it yet despite having a month to do so? Well, that teacher [fill in your excuse for the child here].”) contribute to educational failings. And what about the students? Children obsessed with Facebook, MySpace and Wii have little time to study (Or play outside! They may get snatched by a sexual predator if they do that!).

  184. #184 |  Meghann Workman | 

    Look, as a highschool Jr myself, if a police officer (who are supposed to be trusted officals!) told me my friend died. I would be hysterical, and most likely very depressed. I don’t think it would save a life, just piss people off. Stupid people are still going to do stupid things, and it won’t help by shocking a room full of people.
    Seriously.

  185. #185 |  Morgan | 

    I think it’s good that these kids are learning! They need to see the horrors of drunk driving and the influence one mistake can have on an entire school.

    Stop trying to protect these children from real life situations. How can they learn if they don’t understand what can happen in real life terms?

    I think our society is so based on censorship that people sometimes overlook the bigger picture: how many kids that go to that school do you think will get into a car with someone under the influence? probably none.

    lesson learned.

  186. #186 |  Joe | 

    Hey people, the police lie all the time. It is a longstanding and court approved tactic used by police departments all the time. Stop sticking your heads in the sand. In addition, it is not as if they did not come clean when the purpose of their lie was revealed. This is a realistic situation, and reality is something that America’s youth are being increasingly sheltered from by overprotective parents.

  187. #187 |  Sera | 

    So as a seventeen year old girl, I told some of the other teens at school about this. The first reaction from each and every one of them was “What if someone kills themself after hearing about the supposed death?” It’s not at all farfetched, either: in the emotion of the moment, especially to a teen, everything is heightened. There are some among us (I can think of at least five off the top of my head, just in my immediate circle) who are impulsive enough to do just that, and who would leave campus immediately after the announcement to do it, thus missing the announcement it was faked. The school where this was done is extremely lucky it didn’t get any suicide attempts.

    Yes, I do realize this sounds hyperbolic- but I live in it every day and I am being exactly true to life in this school.

    To address the issue of the ends justifying the means: perhaps society is a bit squeamish as far as shock value is concerned, but in reality, most of the teenagers in the scene know the risks. It has been panted at us since we were in kindergarten. They know exactly what could happen to them. I fail to see how telling them a close friend has died is going to prevent them. Close friends HAVE died for many of them and it isn’t enough. Believing a close friend was dead for an hour certainly isn’t enough.

    By the way, if this was planned at all ahead of time, the close friends of the “dead” student knew exactly what was going on. No teenager alive would actually not tell their best friends they were partaking of something like this. It was only the rest of the student body, the ones who were most likely not on the drug scene to begin with, that were given this shock.

  188. #188 |  Les | 

    Joe,

    I don’t mean that it’s a “mass government conspiracy.” I mean, that, as you’ve pointed out, governments lie. So, we shouldn’t trust them to lie for the right reasons.

    I agree with you that the main reason kids aren’t educated isn’t just because the government does a bad job of education. The main reason is that parents have come to expect the government to educate their kids, and so they’ve neglected their responsibilities in that area. Just as in this situation, they trust the government to help their kids make good decisions by lying to them.

  189. #189 |  Les | 

    Hey people, the police lie all the time. It is a longstanding and court approved tactic used by police departments all the time. Stop sticking your heads in the sand.

    Just because you and the courts approve of the government lying doesn’t mean that the rest of us should. Some of us believe the government should be honest in its dealings with its citizens even when it thinks it knows best. We don’t need to be taken care of with dishonesty.

    In addition, it is not as if they did not come clean when the purpose of their lie was revealed. This is a realistic situation, and reality is something that America’s youth are being increasingly sheltered from by overprotective parents.

    And again, you justify lying to kids because of “good intentions” and you believe the government needs to help raise everyone’s kids because some parents don’t do a good job of it. That’s just a bit too socialist for my tastes.

  190. #190 |  John Markley | 

    Some of the people supporting the school’s actions are utterly revolting. Apparently, my belief that sadistically manipulating innocent kids into believing that their friends and classmates are dead is wrong makes me some sort of child-coddling whiner who is dragging the country into effeminacy and decadence. If, God forbid, any of you have managed to breed, I pity your children. Being raised by someone who thinks honesty and basic decency are for whining pansies can’t be pleasant.

    I’m not clear on how, exactly, this discourages drunk driving. The lesson the kids received wasn’t, “Drunk driving kills people.” No one actually died, after all. The lesson of this particular exercise (aside from “Don’t trust cops, your teachers, or hysterical activist groups,” which is admittedly an important thing to learn) is “The people who insistently claim that drunk driving kills people are liars.” Which in this case is quite true, but seems more likely to lead to the natural but invalid inference “Therefore drunk driving does not kill people” than to a keener appreciation of the real dangers. Aesop’s story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf does not end with the townspeople developing greater vigilance against the threat of wolf attacks.

  191. #191 |  Joe | 

    John M.,

    Let me guess, your favorite movie is Conspiracy Theory starring Mel Gibson…

  192. #192 |  David | 

    Utterly amazing. Not only are some of you insinuating that teens are mindless creatures in the realm of highway safety, but are insinuating that you are better at parenting skills with the stance that most of us parents out here don’t parent or guide our children properly. When I was in school, there was a time and place for this. A mandatory requirement for those that wanted driving privileges at 16. It was called ” Driver’s Ed”. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe this still is the standard. Thats where I learned of the dangers of speeding, reckless behavior, and the consequences of impaired driving thru “factual events” which were documented thru photograghs or film. No false pretenses, no false dramtizations. No toying with emotions.

    Thats where this education belonged before and thats where it belongs now. No one has the right to unduly influence my children without my consent. It’s called “parental rights”

  193. #193 |  Bill | 

    “Stop trying to protect these children from real life situations. How can they learn if they don’t understand what can happen in real life terms?”

    I love hearing from people who are so determined that young people will learn of the “actual consequences” of “real life” that they think it’s okay to fabricate those “true events”. Why not use the real life situations to teach them instead of fabrications and deceit?

  194. #194 |  Ron | 

    The Neo-Prohibitionist fanatics from MADD are nothing more than home grown TERRORISTS.To MADD,our Constitution is no different than a roll of Charmin. They lie to us constantly. Execute one of these lying scumbags on national TV and watch how fast their inflated claims/numbers of “DUI crash fatalities” drops. You can learn the truth at http://www.RIDL.us
    Better wake up America, before its too late!!!

  195. #195 |  James | 

    http://www.madd.org/Media-Center/Media-Center/Press-Releases/PressView.aspx?press=131

  196. #196 |  Ron | 

    James, Thank You for that link sir, I was just going to go for it myself. By MADD’s very own admission, MADD members have endorsed and participated in this event.
    Just think about what COULD or MIGHT have happened !!
    Nobody understands “could have” or “might have” happened like the good folks at MADD do,as in he “COULD” have killed somebody. Right Don ?
    Hopefully with the many imminent lawsuits coming up, MADD will be exposed for the lying,greedy,evil,maggots that they truly are.
    Looks like its time for MADD to get the old check-book out !

  197. #197 |  MADD traumatizes students with fake drunk driving fatalities | myfloridadefenselawyer.com | 

    […] the Agitator, MADD in San Diego is traumatizing high school students with elaborate hoaxes about dead classmates […]

  198. #198 |  Tony | 

    Oh you bunch of bleeding hearts. As I said before, Since your so fired up against this, I hope its your kid that is killed by a drunk and not some innocent kid.
    I bet you are the ones that didn’t even spank little Johnny and Sally when they did something wrong as a child… right?
    Oh, and I am sure, when they get into trouble, its always someone else’s fault.. right? Never little Johnny and Sally.. they can’t do any wrong.
    You fucking people amaze me. Why don’t you go find a place to live all by yourselves, with people like yourself, that never take responsibility for themselves or their damn kids.
    I bet when little Johnny and Sally get caught DUI or doing drugs, you will blame that on someone else too won’t you? LOL
    Please, do the world a favor and go kill yourself and your little wonder kids, you don’t deserve to live.

  199. #199 |  KBCraig | 

    Speaking of intentional infliction of emotional distress:

    “They were traumatized, but we wanted them to be traumatized,” said guidance counselor Lori Tauber, who helped organize the shocking exercise and got dozens of students to participate.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25123570/

  200. #200 |  riley | 

    Counselor Lori Tauber has stated “They were traumatized, but we wanted them to be.” This fits the description of psychological and emotional abuse in the Violence Against Women Act. She should be punished in the same manner as those arrested by the Violence Against Women Act: She should be jailed, lose her professional license, and not be allowed within 2 miles of the school.

  201. #201 |  Michelle | 

    this has been done at many schools nationwide including my own a few years back, the students that were the “victims” were so VOLUNTARILY which means that the “victims” agreed that it was a good idea to do this the rest of the school was informed that there was going to be a demonstration, not with specific details but they knew that it was coming, i highly doubt that any students were actually traumatized by this as they have all been so numbed by movies, and news, and video games. any that were “traumatized” were likely just pretending to get attention from their POS parents who work too much and allow the TV to babysit their jerk kids. Grow up, lose the lawyers number and get a better job if you need money so badly, teaching your kids to sue anyone that you disagree with is just another way you are F***ing this world up.

  202. #202 |  David | 

    My dear Michelle, you should be careful with your words. Apparently you’ve never experienced any true trauma as a teen. I did, and I know what kind of impact death can have on one’s emotions: And suicide had crossed my mind back then.

    ( Lets see? My grandmother was killed with a friend when broadsided by a concrete truck when I was 14. They couldn’t even determine who might have been driving….Three years later I lost 2 brothers within 6 months(13 and 21). Both tragic. So what did I do…I dealt with it as best I could ,,but one thing I did not do was spend all my time trying to get everyone to experience my pain.)

    Playing with emotions in the realm of death is not funny. And that goes for all of you that think this was ok. I also want to thank you all for taking me as well back into my emotions over the events that happened to me 38 years ago. I teach my children about the dangers and I do it “my way”. I don’t traumatize them with lies or staged setups, nor are they little shielded jerks. As a single dad of 4 for the past 10 years, I take that responsiblity very seriously and this ploy was way out of line. And that comes from fact.

  203. #203 |  Ron | 

    Hey Michelle, I bet your single, aren’t you ?
    What happened at your school was one thing (That’s why their called the “Good Old Days”) What happened at THIS school is another.

  204. #204 |  Tony | 

    Dear David… grow up. You are immature and irresponsible. Its people like you that are going to bring this country to its knees (you probably are on your knees alot anyway).

  205. #205 |  Ron | 

    Wishing someones child dead ? Hmmmmmmmm…
    All those years of having sex with your little sister has finally taken it’s toll.
    I guess it’s time for you to move out of your “apartment” in Mom’s basement and get a life.

  206. #206 |  David | 

    Take a hike Tony, I get nothing but praise for the responsiblity I took on as a single parent 10 years ago when my children lost their mother. Ages were 1,2,4,and 7 at the time. And this praise comes from every teacher ,guidence counselor, principal and parents I have encountered thru all the schools I’m involved in. Even then, it took awhile for me to accept that “it was” my leading them by example that brought these comments on. Kinda hard to argue when teachers were requesting my children to be in there class as they progressed year to year. Ever found someone drowned Tony? Tried your best as a 17 year old to save his life???I did,,,It was my 13 year old brother back in 72. You apparently don’t give a rats a**’s about parental rights ,nor who the hell are you to know what goes on inside my head.

    Enough said,,all my kids are A/B students. What about yours?

  207. #207 |  Jason Lee | 

    “If it saves only one life, it will have been worth it.”

    …yes, and keeping every American citizen locked in a padded cage tied up would also save many lives. Why don’t we push for this too? Hey, if it saves a life, why not???! In fact, who needs rights? Having rights and freedoms only lead to more deaths, that’s a fact? We might as well get rid of those too! Don’t forget to call your overweight kid a fatass everyday too, maybe that will get them to lose the weight! I’m sorry, I’m completely against drinking and driving and all, but this is truly taking it too far. Groups like MADD are extremists in my opinion, and belong in countries like China, not America.

  208. #208 |  The real Deal | 

    You are blaming the wrong person here. The officer is NOT in charge of the program, he/she just facilitates the program. The school is to blame end of story. They wanted the program, they put it on, the buck stops there! You all are being brutal to a guy who lost his dad to a drunk driver! He grew up without a father his whole life! He is only trying to make the roadways safer for us all. As a parent I understand the response and anger. This program has been around for a long time. If you want to complain, then go to the source not the CHP. But please, continue to attack them and talk about lawsuit, it is very entertaining! I especially liked the last comment how Madd belong in China! Jason Lee, your ignorance is very amusing.

  209. #209 |  Real Deal | 

    MARTY Wrote “I’d love to know how many many people this classroom cop has scraped off the road… the ones that make the most noise do the least work. I’ve been working in EMS for 20 years, 11 at a high volume service… I had some tragic calls, but nothing like the crap these clowns spew at us. I’ve definitely never felt the urge to go scare the hell out of a bunch of people to further some safety agenda. I’m guessing I’ve been on 15,000 911 calls and maybe 5% were bad… even fewer still were fatal or permanently damaged. That’s about par for the industry.
    I bet this guy is heading up the car seat cartel and the seatbelt compliance squad, too. For the greater good!”

    Actually Marty, I know this “Classroom Cop” and he is a road dawg. Second, You should be on the same side seeing how you say you are in EMS. You should know about these programs and that they are not head up by one single individual but groups and committees. But hey, feel free to sound off here on a Blog. You wouldn’t have the nerve to say it to his face, so why not here!

  210. #210 |  David | 

    Agreed, blame cannot be placed on the CHP solely. There is some fingerpointing going on here but the fact is, and no one can refute it, is both the CHP officer, MS Tauber, and the school pricipal all stated the same thing. We wanted them to be tramautized and made that decision WITHOUT parental imput or approval. There are similar programs in my school district,varying from the dangers of impaired driving, sex ed, drugs, strangers on the street etc. But in EVERY instance that they initiated something like this outside the norm of academics which is the primary responsibility of the school system, a permission slip WAS sent home asking for approval from me, as a parent, to whether they had my permission to allow my child to participate in this , Whether it was a dramatization, a film or whatever, I was given all the relevant information in regard to what they had in mind. The parent made the decision to opt in or out and the school respected and HONORED the right of the parent to make that a decision. And to this date, I have never said no to anything they ever initiated. But one thing they never did in any of these programs is “create a hoax”. They dealt it the realm of truth with the goal of creating a trusting atmosphere. And that my friends is why I give my school district an A+. The truth is a far more effective deterent than deception in any case. And what happened here backfired bigtime. As has been stated in some of the earlier posts. They are lucky a life didn’t get lost in their effort to save a life. And they damn sure sabatoged any trust the students may had had with them prior to this.

  211. #211 |  The Real Deal | 

    The program is set up to be upsetting to the students! The CHP officers, AND other agencies ie: (Local police dept, sheriff, Fire Dept who were also very much involved in this program funny how you are not going after them) are just running a program that someone else set up. They are not the originating departments but most of the people on this blog are so quick to jump all over the CHP and the
    school. NOT ONE OF YOU HAVE GIVEN AN ALTERNATE TO THE PROGRAM! So quick to bash and threaten lawsuit but do any of you have an alternate way to reach young people. 15-19 year olds are the worse drivers period. over 23,000 are killed every year, JUST to DUI related collisions! That does not even take into account the others that are killed because of lack of experience! I do understand the anger here I really do. I am very angry as well BUT point that anger at the true culprits……..Parents that are either too stupid or too bust to give their teenagers a fair chance at surviving California roadways. Unless you are familiar with how bad things are on Southern California freeways you have no right to judge anyone!

  212. #212 |  The Real Deal | 

    By the way, using the word “HOAX” and “Joke” regarding the Every 15-Minutes program shows ignorance. Go and watch the program from start to finish and I mean go to the retreat and listen to these brave kids bare their souls and you will understand one irrefutable fact. Young people today have a much greater self awareness than we give them credit for. One young life saved out of a hundred is worth the trauma, especially if that young life is your son/daughter. Give the CHP a break on this one, they are trying to save lives plain and simple.

  213. #213 |  David | 

    The 15 minute program is an awareness program that ALL parties involved know is a dramatization. Even the director of the program was by no means pleased with the method used here.

    Quote: Dean Wilson, executive director of Every 15 Minutes, said he didn’t endorse the hoax. He knew of only a handful of schools where students were told a death was real. End quote: There is no ignorance here(source-Allision Hoffman-Associated Press)

    If there wasn’t something wrong here, this discussion would not be taking place. The officer(not CHP,but thru his employment represents them), Ms Tauber, and the principal deviated into their own realm and created their own version of how this should go down without any consideration for the first and most important source they should have sought feedback before initiating this. And that was the parent’s of these children.

  214. #214 |  Real Deal | 

    Once again sir your ignorance of the program comes glaring through.

    Not all students/parents are notified only the ones taking part in the mock crash/mock funeral. That is the way ALL the programs run. Dean Wilson, of course, is going to distance himself away from any negative press. What, you think that kids/parents react this way in the Midwest or the South? It had to happen in California where we are a bunch of over sensitive cry babies looking to blame other people for our problems and are quick to scream Lawsuit when something or someone rubs us the wrong way. By the way, this “extreme version” of every 15-minutes has taken place for years trust me on this. This is just the first time someone has complained

  215. #215 |  David | 

    No one has the right to inflict any type of emotional stress, pain or corporal punishment on anyone’s children without parental consent: There is a law against it. Hell, if they had not banned corporal punishment from being administered in the schools, we would have far less problems than we do. Now we have a “is it butter or margerine senerio floating around in the kids minds.

    I respect what your saying,but death is real enough without having to inflict a practice session.

    End of story…

  216. #216 |  The Real Deal | 

    So now that we all know how horrible what this officer/school did was, How do you educate 15-19 year olds who are the worse drivers. How do you educate them when over 20,000 are killed in crashes many of which are DUI related? HOW would you intellectuals do it because I would really like to know. It is easy and safe to sit on your computers and fire off shots at Officer Newbury it is another thing entirely to actually walk in his boots and those of officers across the nation, not just California, that are trying to save lives.

  217. #217 |  Tom Alciere | 

    The way to impress upon students not to drink and drive is to show TV news segments from around the country, of older drunk drivers killing teenagers, then teenagers facing similar charges for the same crime, driving drunk and killing somebody not in their car. (Some students will rationalize that the passenger CHOSE to get in…but the pedestrian did not.)

  218. #218 |  Tony | 

    Hey Crybaby Dave…. My kids, well lets see, I have one that is a Major in the Army. I have one that is an advance practice nurse, and I have one that is in school for to become a dentist.
    Go suck your thumb. Oh, and one more thing. I hope that the next kid killed by a drunk is one of your kids and not someone elses since your the one that thinks this program is so terrible.
    Go suck off a lawyer you dumb fuck.

  219. #219 |  Ron | 

    Tony, do you think you’re getting a little carried away here ?
    What did his KIDS ever do to you for Christ’s sake ? Or are you just “Lashing Out” because of the obvious hangup you have about kneeling and sucking ? Don’t you think a parent has a right to be aware of what is going on in their kid’s schools today ? Have you noticed that MADD is distancing themselves from this one? When was the last time you had a Cat-Scan ?

  220. #220 |  The Real Deal | 

    Madd is not a part of this program, they are not backing away they simply do not run the program. The article was poorly written and the officer was mis-quoted but it sure stirred up a lot of emotions!

    “The way to impress upon students not to drink and drive is to show TV news segments from around the country, of older drunk drivers killing teenagers, then teenagers facing similar charges for the same crime, driving drunk and killing somebody not in their car. (Some students will rationalize that the passenger CHOSE to get in…but the pedestrian did not.) ” That may be one way.

    Loved your site by the way Tom. I thought it was especially funny how you try to connect Natalee Holloway to under age drinking

    “Natalee Holloway shouldn’t have had to leave the country to exercise her right to drink without fear of being jailed for it.”

    Now that’s just stupid thinking right there I don’t care who you are.

  221. #221 |  Ron | 

    http://www.madd.org/Media-Center/Media-Center/Press-Releases/PressView.aspx?press=131

    MADD members participated. Participation equals endorsement. Can we agree on that ?

  222. #222 |  The Real Deal | 

    I don’t see why not. Unless they specifically tell these poor survivors after losing a loved one to a drunk driver, Who and when they can tell their story to. It sounds live an endorsement to me. You are not going to get me to agree that Mothers Against Drunk Driving are anything more than an organization trying to make a difference in our society. A society that sees DUI as an annoyance and not the serious crime that it is.

  223. #223 |  Ron | 

    I certainly do agree that MADD is trying to make a “Difference” in our society. Before I forget, let me please get on record that my Mom was killed by a drunk driver. The guy was not .08 or .10 or .15 or .21 (.27 if you’re dying to know) My Dad lived, but got wracked up pretty good. I have no love for people like this. My feelings are that the DUI laws are just getting way out of hand thanks to MADD. I would like proof that MADD is not a neo-prohibitionist type of group. Do you have it ?

  224. #224 |  The Real Deal | 

    I could care less how the message gets across and this particular group is against DUI. I am not giving up my Gin for nobody, so they neo-prohibiton all they want. We (you and I) have a responsibility to save others from the loss of our parents. Otherwise, we have no right to complain when another family is destroyed to to a drunk driver. For me, it is a Horrible thing that our society allows to exist.

    You say DUI laws are way out of hand? You must be insane! It takes 3 Misd DUI convictions before the FOURTH finally becomes a Felony (in a ten year period) and the Habitual offender finally does hard time . Thats like playing Russian roulette with a 2-3 ton vehicle! You like the idea of sharing the highways with these people? They do not care or just cannot stop themselves from driving drunk and I think these habitual offenders should be locked away on the second conviction. To me, you get one chance, make a mistake and you better never do it again period.

  225. #225 |  Ron | 

    R.D. I’m not trying to say it’s cool to down a 12 pack,half bottle of Cuervo,smoke a joint, and then drive, no, no way. It’s sad when someone who kidnapped, raped, and tortured a little 10 year old girl to death has more rights afforded to him,than a person arrested for DUI that had harmed no one. No right to an attorney, no right to trial by jury (in some states), Miranda who ?
    Nazi-style roadblocks…
    Can’t set up a roadblock to look for a kidnapped little girl,but you can set one up to see if people have been drinking alcohol.
    If I want to get hammered,I’ll stay at home thank you. Then again, I could get arrested if I were to be out in my own driveway,standing next to my car. The new DUI laws figure I “MIGHT” drive…

  226. #226 |  The Real deal | 

    Ron- Just because you are a “responsible citizen” and I don’t know you from Adam but for the sake of argument lets say u r. Does that mean we should assume that others are as well? I suppose you want to let violent felons and Parolees own guns because we should trust them to not use them only in self defense? I agree with you that Kidnapping and rape are far more horrible than DUI but does that mean we should cut intoxicated drivers more slack and loosen up those laws? I think not! You also need to understand When Miranda needs to be read. A traffic stop does not warrant reading of rights and by the time you are arrested for a DUI, no more questions about the incident needs to be asked so no Miranda is needed

  227. #227 |  75 Years Of Binge Drinking, Prostitution, Neglected Children, And Slovenly Hygiene | Social Services for Feral Children | 

    […] the good work of protecting America’s children from alcohol is carried on by millions of mothers who seek […]

Leave a Reply