The Wall Street Journal is apparently sending marketing people out to buy up copies of a parody newspaper that came out this week. Link includes horrifying NSFW rendering of a topless Ann Coulter.
The state of Oregon claims it’s public laws are protected by copyright.
Major commercial airline travel had zero fatalities last year.
The state of Texas’ decision to raid that polygamist compound is looking more suspect by the day.
France looks to ban “promotion of extreme thinness.”
The sad story of a man stuck in an elevator for 42 hours. I think it’s a bit strange that commenters at the linked site are criticizing the man for suing. He very well could have died in there. I’d have sured, too. Link includes pretty terrifying surveillance video.
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on Thursday, April 17th, 2008 at 7:57 am by Radley Balko
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TheAgitator.com
Has anybody denying that underage marriages or polygamy were taking place in this compound? While I’ll happily concede that consenting adults should be allowed their polygamous relationships, forcing children to get married strikes me as beyond the pale. Furthermore, considering the cruelty with which Texas has tried to prevent gay anything from occurring in the state, isn’t this at least evidence of consistency?
Sam,
The inconsistency that concerns me is the Midland County Sheriff’s Armored Personnel Carrier is not raiding gay bars in San Angelo and forcibly removing homosexuals at gun point.
I have not heard any evidence that the residents of YFZ ranch were threatening violence or bloodshed. This begs the question as to why there were snipers emplaced around the compound and why they needed an armored personnel carrier.
The drumbeat of police militarization continues, with nary a batted eyelash in the mainstream media.
The link provided in no way made the decision to raid more suspect. Even if we accept that premise for arguments sake that the raid was unnecessary, showing a bunch of crying mothers is not evidence of that.
The New Yorker article on the guy in the elevator makes it clear that he himself is critical of his decision to sue. Or at least he’s unhappy that he decided to quit his job to better the grounds for his suit.
He only won a few tens of thousands of dollars, too, which seems remarkable. Surely the pain and suffering caused by the security guards negligence was worth at least low six figures.
As for those attacking him for suing: People tend to underestimate how awful mental terror is. If no one suffered physical harm, then no one was really hurt, in their mind. Of course, you’ve mentioned that yourself… police frequently pooh pooh claims that SWAT raids are terrifying and cause for victim compensation, even when flash bangs are used and guns are jammed in faces.
Do we have a transcript of what the “abused girl” said in her phone calls? Maybe she warned of everyone being armed so the police needed to protect themselves from being shot?
I don’t know what was said by the girl who called the police, but I do know that weapons have been found at the compound and that the FLDS members had vowed to defend themselves against any intruders.
Was the militirization unnecessary - probably. But that doesn’t make the raid itself unnecessary. Again, there were children at stake, and those mothers can cry all they want, but I haven’t heard anybody deny that underage girls were being forced to have sex and get married by males in the community. (Incidentally, is it any surprise that these women think there’s nothing wrong? They were raised in exactly the same isolated culture.)
Since I was living in Texas at the time of the Waco incident, I can understand the state’s decision to initially go in “guns ablazing”, or near enough. Was it unnecessary? Most likely. These people certainly seem peaceful. But once burned, forever shy, and the state had no way to be absolutely sure there wasn’t some kind of arsenal buried in the basement. At least they backed down on the SWAT teams when the sect members let them in.
The militarization of police forces is general is daft (and, say, the APC was probably overkill), but this raid was fully justified - it’s been clear for years that the church abuses children, they finally had something to get a warrant, and it’s a big place.
I can’t think of any direct threats of violence, but some of the older Pheonix New Times articles (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/SpecialReports/view/212740 - the links are dead, but searching for the titles will turn the articles up) indicate that at least the Arizona government was worried about potential violence when the cult was in Colorado City.
People tend to underestimate how awful mental terror is. If no one suffered physical harm, then no one was really hurt, in their mind…police frequently pooh pooh claims that SWAT raids are terrifying and cause for victim compensation, even when flash bangs are used and guns are jammed in faces.
Yep.
I once had the pleasure of being in a building being cleared by a SWAT team. (Gunman on the loose on campus, people dead…this was a legit use in other words.) I knew that they were coming, and I even let them in to our floor by opening the fire door to the stairwell for them, for which I was thanked with about half a dozen rifles pointed at my head. After I backed away with my hands up they motioned me into the stairs and I was out of the building before I knew it. The whole thing lasted probably 20 seconds.
I didn’t sleep well for months. And my blood pressure went up every time I used that stairwell for years.
And like I said…I was expecting them.
Solinox,
I’m puzzled by the first part of your comment. What about Waco should have made the state more likely to go in with “guns ablazing”? Law enforcement was easily just as (I would argue more) culpable for escalating the situation in Waco than were the residents of the compound. Of course, we can’t do a full inquiry because every single inhabitant was incinerated or shot to death by agents of the govenrment. I fail to see how living in Texas at the time of the Waco incident grants a greater appreciation or understanding of the events surrounding that tragic incident, based on your post I argue that the opposite is true.
“the state had no way to be absolutely sure there wasn’t some kind of arsenal buried in the basement”. First, is it illegal to have an arsenal buried in one’s basement? Second, it’s not true that the state had “no way to be absolutely sure” about anything, the state has many tools at its exposure to investigate the situation before sending in a SWAT team. Based on the timeline I’ve seen, they did not attempt to investigate with Child Protective Services before raiding with guns “ablazing”. Are there no intermediate steps you can see the state taking before calling in the SWAT team? If not, what kind of precedent does this set, and would you want it to be applied to you and yours?
“At least they backed down on the SWAT teams when the sect members let them in.” This comment summarizes a chilling presumption. To wit, that the state has a right to use violence unless the target of that violence accedes to their demands. Um, which country are we in again? Oh, yeah, Texas…
Finally, have the phone logs of Child Protective Services been reviewed to check the origin of the call that triggered the raid? Why has the media not investigated to ensure the origin of the call was from where CPS claims? Why have the call records not been publicly released?
My theory is this is either a power grab by Child Protective Services to justify their budget ; or, someone sought to instigate a raid by authorities on an unpopular minority.
I don’t disagree that the laws of the state and the nation must be enforced, and it’s a terrible thing if young girls were being forced to marry and bear children, and should be prevented. But, I strongly disagree with the manner in which it was done.
Remind me to never take an express elevator.
Sam,
You said:” I haven’t heard anybody deny that underage girls were being forced to have sex and get married by males in the community”
Another chilling presumption…what happened to innocent until proven guilty? If someone accuses you of heinous acts against ones you love, should I take those accusations as true absent any further proof of the accusation or denial by you?
Let’s see, in the span of a week, the residents of the compound have had their family ripped apart, their privacy invaded, and potentially libelous statements bandied about in the media. Yeah…why don’t they get their PR people on the horn???? RIght?? Oh…gee…maybe it’s because they are too wracked by sorrow and confusion that they haven’t gotten around to proving their innocence to the satisfaction of Sam Wilkinson.
Who’s published a good, comprehensive review of the before and current goings-on in Texas? All I have seen are piecemeal, er, pieces.
And I’d like to thank you, RB, for posting a collection of substantial stories to see me through lunchtime.
And I’ll add the totally worthless question - I wonder how much the Big Love producers are drooling over this story?
The two stories I find most interesting in the daily links are:
1) Major commercial airline travel had zero fatalities last year — why weren’t there any? Not that I’m complaining; success in preventing tragic accidents with fiery death and an ensuing cable news network feeding frenzy/masturbatory sensationalism about needing more cable news is a good thing in my book any day. But what caused the success? Luck? Regulation? Industry self-policing? Understanding the cause will hopefully allow us to continue creating success.
2) The state of Oregon claims it’s public laws are protected by copyright — Seriously? Public works, financed by public dollars, are subject to copyright? Do they sue for infringement if another state implements the same law? How ridiculous! I would hope that this kind of idiocy would only bolster more people who realize that rational copyright laws are important to a solid capitalistic economy, but apparently the reasonable people don’t have the financial stake required to buy some legislators to promote more for fair use. This kind of stuff coming from the government itself (albeit a state government, but government none the less) ought to be an absurd parody on the state of copyright laws in our country but instead just points out that it’s getting worse.
Sooooooo, promote thin, go to jail.
Promote fat, go to jail.
Cool.
Re Oregon. Gov. Teddy K n’ Co. clearly are running low on cash and need to bolster the coffers. Maybe all the measure 37 claims or I guess the special legislative session really didn’t get anything worked out (we meet every two years here in Or and they ran short last year to get everything they wanted done). Yet another colossal waste of my tax dollars.
I’ve read several postings (about the raid of the polygamist’s compound) on different websites with anarchist or libertarian viewpoints, and one common point made is that regardless of how justified the raid was, separating the children from their mothers AFTERWARDS and placing them as wards of the “state” is a terrible thing. It’s possible for both the cult leaders AND the intervening state forces to be evil.
mjhlaw,
I am happy to apologize if this was a private, cultish organization that wasn’t abusing kids and forcing them to get married at age 14. But considering that this is a group well-known for this sort of behavior, I think it’s worth noting that it was probably occurring within the compound. But again, if it wasn’t, I’ll happily apologize.
A topless Ann Coulter? The woman makes Kate Moss look fat. What is there to see? Sorry, Ann. You are brainy, you have a beautiful face, but you are basically a beanpole.
AFAIK, next edition might feature Helen Thomas.
And Mr. Murdoch, you are wasting money buying up those parody papers. If anything, the parody reinforces brand strength.
chsw
Whhoooops! Now that I saw the actual parody paper, I think that the editors used a model that is about 30 pounds heavier than Coulter. I think that it would have been funnier to graft Coulter’s head atop a similarly skinny woman’s body. However, that’s just my opinion.
They could have also given her a third one.
chsw
@ chsw: I prefer the “Buy up the parody” method far more than the “Let’s assault the 1st Amendment by suing them for trademark and copyright infringement.” Props to News Corp for going the classy route on that.
Can the parody guys only do one printing? If each printing is going to get bought up by News Corp employees, I’d think that they’ve got an express train to the best sellers list. Does WSJ have one of those, or just NYT?
The problem with statutes being copyright-protected is that it is outside the scope of intellectual property’s intent.
IP was created to promote innovation. Legislators don’t need that sort of encouragement to “innovate” with the law.
I hate the state, and I hate the Idea that they have the authority to go interfere in peoples lives.
The only thing I hate more than that is Mormons. Too bad the plans to eradicate them in the 1800’s didn’t work out.
It was legal to kill any and all mormons in Missouri until 1976.
So if this was any other group of people I would be outraged. Mormons, I could care less.
[...] Via Radley [...]
Funny, pierre, I feel the same way about genocidal luddites.
I second Matt’s motion.
This one hella can o worms to open up.
Might be less expensive to either raid and occupy the entire compound/ranch, or leave em alone and treat the survivors?
Naw apply the WOD example, it’s worked so very well!
I’ve no idea what the State of Tx is paying for this operation, but I’d bet they they will pay oh so much more in the lawsuits to be filed against them as a result of it.
One can only hope that the entire CPS of the state gets flushed and the state goes after those responsible for such a debacle and insures they NEVER EVER can suck a public teet again!
Don’t take that as sticking up for the FLDS, but such could jut as easily be a Lutheran Camp, or Southern Baptist retreat. Or even your small town! All because of one or two phone calls by who knows what, declaring abuses.
**********
“Link includes horrifying NSFW rendering of a topless Ann Coulter.”
I could not agree more, Ann is way hotter than that pathetic rendering! WAY the hell hotter!
I don’t criticize the elevator guy for suing - from what I’ve heard of the case, he was left in there by rather gross negligence. What I criticize him for is quitting his job to get more money in the lawsuit, and not finding another since. Get one on a low floor or something, sure, but don’t try to sue your way into retirement, and definitely don’t try to keep it up even after your verdict has come back grossly inadequate to your future needs. His original problems were not his fault, but his current ones are.
David Friedman has been having some interesting posts on the compound raid:
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2008/04/flds-phone-call-postscript.html
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2008/04/flds-and-oneida-commune.html
http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/2008/04/were-401-children-seized-on-fake-phone.html
I would have sued also, but considering the guy walked out and didn’t suffer any major physical damage, I don’t think I would have gone for the 25 million. Or quit my job. I figure I would have about a new cars worth of damage, not a retire now worth.