Is America under the rule of law? If so, then STATE THE LAW WHICH WAS BROKEN, ALEX!

You. Are. Wrong.

The very idea that cops can demand anything without the force of Constitutional law backing them up is disgusting.

Do us all a favor before reposting, Alex. Read the Declaration of Independence first, then read the Federalist Papers (to include the Antifederalist Papers).

Educate yourself, don’t just spout emotional opinions which are, in fact, based on a lie.

I bet the dancers will be deterred from ignoring cops trying to cool a situation in the future. I hope the cops are reprimanded also.

I think we have two primary differences: 1) whether dancing at a Memorial is a constitutionally protected freedom and 2) whether the dancing came close enough to breaking a park rule that the police could reasonably request for them to leave.

On the first, I adamently do no not think it is. It seems they were just acting goofy and having fun. I’m sure they don’t have 1st Amendment protections, and I don’t personally have a problem with that.

On the second, I think from the video that they were being loud enough that asking them to leave is reasonable. Maybe I’m just a crank, but I personally would have objected to the whole thing if I was visiting at the time.

I should add that I think Ms. Oberwetter was betrayed by her friends. From the video, it appears that several were provoking the cops but ultimately complying with them. She seemed to be asking serious questions, just ignoring their requests to leave. That’s one of the many reasons I have such disdain for the cameraman. His being a total dick likely led to his friend being arrested. If he believed so passionately that he was right, he should’ve had the balls to take a stand.

I’m off to Redneck Riviera for the weekend, so I won’t be on the internets much for a couple days. If you take the time to respond, I’ll make sure I read it at some point though.

My simplified point is that whenever a private person restricts the freedom of another, swift punishment is in order – and sometimes quite severe, as with kidnapping.

How should this be much different when the aggressor is wearing a badge? Citizens are presumed to know the law, so how much more does this apply to those whose sole job and duty is to enforce said laws?

Punishment is usually seen as a deterrent. Have the involved aggressors been deterred? Any bets on what will happen to the next group of twenty folks inclined to dance on government property which is open to the public 24/7?

Woog, Kjell, and Radley are the only ones to address anything I actually said, so I’m willing to entertain this as long as you guys would like.

Kjell, a popular saying among conservatives is, “human nature has no history.” (I have no idea where it comes from.) I think in order for one to remain sane, one needs to recognize the difference between humans behaving humanly and exceptional humans being assholes. It is my personal opinion that the cops here are the former.

Also, remember these are Park Police. Their primary job is maintaining decorum at the Monuments. It’s not like they were hassled on a streetcorner for dancing.

I’M SAYING THAT’S WHAT HAPPENS, RIGHT OR WRONG, WHEN YOU TREAT A COP LIKE A LAWYER WHEN HE, RIGHT OR WRONG, IS DOING WHAT HE BELIEVES IS HIS JOB, LEGITIMATELY OR NOT.

The cops were ‘clearing the place out’, why, exactly? If there was no law being broken, and since the only charges leveled were unrelated to any laws being broken BEFORE the confrontation, the cops appear to be completely and utterly in the wrong.

If the cops were in the wrong, then the dancers were doing what they had a RIGHT to do, as, last I’d checked, a free country is one where “all which is not explicitly forbidden is allowed”.

THEN let’s have an eyeball at Ye Olde United States code title 18, section 241:
“If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;…

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.” ( http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/crim/241fin.htm )

So, WHO exactly should be the ones being arrested in this scenario, again, Alex?

I don’t fundamentally disagree with anything you said. But this story was presented to us (by everyone, not just Radley) as “ZOMG, woman arrested for dancing at Memorial” then “ZOMG, woman arrested for asked why she can’t dance at the Memorial.”

No, the truth is that she was arrested for trying to have a Lincoln-Douglas debate while they were trying to clear the place out. If you think having a midnight dance party at a national monument is a right (I don’t in the least) worth risking jail for, by all means take a stand. But realize at that point you are engaging in civil disobediance and essentially asking to be sent to jail.

I should add that when I first saw this story Sunday (I think) on Fark, I was outraged at people saying what I am now. When I saw the videos, it would have been more surprising to me if someone didn’t get arrested.

Also, there’s the issue what Greg N. called “oh, no libertarianism.” Watch that video of the cameraman on local news. He says he hopes schoolchildren don’t get arrested for being too loud. Great, another hopped up libertarian making dumb-as-shit, histrionic arguements. Oh, no!

Fine, then. You go do your business with them as you see fit. But I’m here to tell you that words mean things, and that “enemy” thing is correct. And one thing that that means is that some people are going to be considerably more upright in dealing with them, and you’ve got nothing to say about it.

Well, Alex, what about the cop who escorts you towards the exit with no explanation? You seem to be saying that blindly following the instructions of authority simply for the sake of complying with authority should be the default; is that really what you want, to do everything you’re told and then complain about it over beers? Well played, sir; you’re an inspiration to conformists everywhere. Be sure to pop your collar while you’re in the bar with your friends.

This is clearly a case of “do as I say or you’ll be arrested without me telling you what for”. That is WRONG, and everyone should be willing to be arrested for standing up for your natural rights. Government doesn’t give you rights, they are supposed to PROTECT them, even if other people don’t like it.

1: Ummm…Jeffy was kinda big on all that peaceable assembly junk, as far as I can tell. Sorry.
2: What would Jefferson think? Did you miss the whole 4th grade, or something?
3: You want me to say what? Hahaha. No.

…

Bob, I haven’t been to the Memorial in about 5 years. I think I remember it well though. First of all, where the diameter of a circle meets a tangent line, there is indeed a corner. Of course, the diameter is off by a few degrees here, but I think that is compensated by the square column protruding from the walls.

Look people, my point is that I’m not very afraid of the enemy I know. The Colomb case, Cory Maye, the poor kid in St. Louis, the Arizona story yesterday, etc. is the enemy I don’t know, and it scares the hell out me. The cop who arrests me when I turn right around after he escorts me towards the exit is an enemy I know well.

I’m sure the officers quickly assessed the value of those rights, versus the disruption these people were causing before deciding to take the “least restrictive action” possible. What? They kciked them out without first asking them to stop dancing? What!? The thought of first amendment-protected actions never even entered into their thought calculus? They haven’t been properly trained on how to deal with these situations!? You don’t say.