Is there an actual law which was broken by the dancers? Just one law, any law, statements regarding unConstitutional laws as stated by Chief Justice Marshall notwithstanding?

No?

Then, apparently, such a “prank” _does_ belong in a national memorial, and anywhere else where it isn’t explicitly forbidden by Constitutionally viable law.

I do think it dumb this other woman got arrested, but she was obviously opposing the security guards/cops (whoever it was) and anytime you do that, you know you’re going to get arrested. People with badges rarely back down.

People! Quit getting all political about what happened and just look at the common sense (or lack of) it all. These cops may have gone too far by arresting someone, but don’t act like they represent the government. I realize they technically do, but they’re really just guys with authority that got carried away. The answer here is better training of the security guards and for certain people to stop purposefully pushing their buttons.

Also, the woman that wrote in to CNET to notify them admitted it was a prank and pranks don’t belong in a national memorial.

Gordon: Please look at “http://www.snopes.com/quotes/caesar.asp”

Caesar? NNNope. I’m pretty sure that quote was from Mahatma Ghandi. *rolls eyes* Seriously.

I’ve been in more than my share of encounter with police, ranging from traffic, to fights, to well, nowadays it would a “terrorist incident” but it wasn’t, and I’ve yet to be arrested onsite for any of them. Gotten a couple of outrageous tickets, yes, but arrested, that takes work.

There really isn’t enough info on the video for me to really make a call. The annoying guy with the camera was too busy yelling “no! Arrest me!” (I’m paraphrasing :)) and didn’t film a good sense of what was going on, OTHER than that the Park service guys shut you down.

Did anyone call and let the Parks service know that this was going on? I know, no permit wanted, but just a “hey, we’re showing up, it’s just a group of people, not drunks, and not there to trash the place”?

I think that you all should hold a silent stand in at the JM. Bring your iPods; this time no dancing! (Listen to a copy of the Constitution) This way they can’t get you for the same thing. Everyone should stand at arms length from one and other and just face TJ himself. Do that say once a week for a few weeks for about 10 minutes or what ever interval seems appropriate. Tell the Washington Post and other media outlets about this! Adding pressure and being smart and you will prevail!!!

1) On my proposed beating: I think that he must have miraculously avoided beatings in his life that that would’ve kept him from being so socially akward. In my neck of the woods, a good beating at an opportune moment from a parent/sibling/classmate/large-guy-that-hates-smartasses can be a very good thing. So I guess I think he needs a makeup beating, and (ridiculous hypothetical) if he was my friend, I might consider making that investment.

2) On respecting the cop: I think initially showing the cop some basic human respect is the right thing to do, but I wouldn’t have a problem if the he just completely unloaded on the cop if he knows he’s right. Nobody deserves that ridiculous Tom Green act though. And all that stuff other stuff. Wow. Of all possible approaches, the whiny, annoying, brat is definitely the worst.

3) I love that “oh, no libertarianism.” Well the phrase, anyway. It’s the reason I just say I’m a country club Republican unless I’m pressed.

4) I opened that Bureaucrash video in another tab and just clicked over to it and saw (sound was off) some guy in a joker hat and nerd shirt and figured I’d seen enough. Until these videos, I thought that Jon Favreau scene in Swingers was the most embarassing thing possible to watch. Nope, gainfully employed libertarians. How sad.

5) It’s been a long day. I might respond to whoever calls me a fascist/communist/Nazi tomorrow.

It isn’t that Talley was disrespecting the cameraman that made me cringe. It’s that what he was saying was so incredibly lame, and said in such a whiny tone. Go back and listen to when he says, “Don’t touch my property.” Play it a few times in a row, and if you’re not nauseated with embarrassment, you’re a better man than I am.

THAT SAID…

It’s ridiculous to say Talley deserves a “beating,” and I certainly wouldn’t volunteer for the job even if he did. The few times I’ve hung out with/near him, I’ve found him to be a good guy, and we share a handful of mutual friends. And, importantly, he’s deeply committed to the cause of freedom. Talley’s problem (and it’s a big one) is that he’s way too Bureaucrashed. He and his cohorts epitomize what I call “Oh, no libertarianism.” “Oh, no libertarianism” is the tendency for libertarians to do really stupid things that make you say, “Oh, no” in response. If you follow libertarianism at all, you probably know what I’m talking about, and you probably have your own examples.

When the LP nominated Badnarik: “Oh, no.”

Every LP convention: “Oh, no.”

Logan Darrow Clements and his Lost Liberty Hotel” (featuring the “Just Desserts Cafe”): “Oh, no.”

When Hans Hoppe speaks: “Oh, no.”

You get the picture. But nobody does “oh, no libertarianism” better than Bureaucrash. If those guys are doing something, chances are it’s lame. Check out this video of a couple “crashers” confronting the “Yes Men” pranksters outside of Cato a while back. From the BC website: “… when anyone strays into targeting libertarian groups and ideas it’s going to end up badly for them as long as Bureaucrash is around.” The reality is tragically different. See the nauseatingly unfunny video for yourself: http://bureaucrash.com/node/6091.

If you’re unfamiliar with the group, that video igives you all you need to know. It’s Bureaucrash in a cringe-inducing nutshell: trying very hard, and consistently coming up well short of a goal that’s not all that great to begin with.

I still think he needs a good beating.

It looks like the State has turned you into quite a nice little fascist, now go get a badge so you’ll fit in with the rest of the jack booted thugs.

HOWEVER: I think it is very much fair to criticize the cameraman. He’s a cop, yes, but he’s also a human being. Treat cops with a little bit of human dignity, until they give you a reason not to.

Jesus, you people are a bunch of pussies. That camera operator was extremely respectful of the officer given the circumstances. Hell, he didn’t even call him any names.

What about those officers behavior make any of you think that they deserved even the smallest modicum of respect? What, because they can push around a 120 pound girl listening to her iPod? That makes them worthy of some respect? Acting like tough guys threatening to arrest people for “disturbing the peace”? Using profanity, then threatening to remove the next person that uses profanity? That deserves respect? I don’t think so.

Those cops were chickenshit and I guarantee you that if a group of 20 burly guys had been dancing around they’d have left them alone. Either that or they’d have called in a SWAT team because they were scared.

All I am saying is, that just because someone is wearing a badge, it doesn’t mean he’s evil. He may have been told by his boss to shoo the dancers away.

I agree that the woman should not have been arrested — as far as I have heard she was not belligerent or doing anything particularly wrong.

HOWEVER: I think it is very much fair to criticize the cameraman. He’s a cop, yes, but he’s also a human being. Treat cops with a little bit of human dignity, until they give you a reason not to.

My experiences are far from extraordinay. Either way, that mini-bio was in response to your betting. My point was that this guy was way out of line unless he’s lived his whole life at that compound in Texas. Kill ‘em with kindness is a lesson that can easily be learned under less than extraordinary circumstances. From my experience, people in DC are actually much better than the average because so many people interact daily with people who passionately hold polar opposite views. This attitude goes a long way in explaining why libertarianism isn’t more popular.

“And the sort of authoritarian, elitist attitude you are displaying here is part of the problem.”

Part of what problem?

Ok, let’s bet. I was a soldier and lived in the ghetto during college and for a couple years after, so I probably have more experience than most guys my age.

Well, I guess you’ve more or less proved my thesis. You’ve had the extraordinary experiences that would probably prepare you for that sort of confrontation. But that experience also demolishes your original contention that any old late-20/early-30s people, who would not have had such an experience, ought to have been properly prepared.

And the sort of authoritarian, elitist attitude you are displaying here is part of the problem.

Ok, let’s bet. I was a soldier and lived in the ghetto during college and for a couple years after, so I probably have more experience than most guys my age. Hell, I was held up for the second time last week. But this guy was acting like a snotty brat. There’s a big difference between reacting imperfectly and being a total ass.

“Why stop with a beating?” blah blah blah

I said I commend the cops for not beating him. I still think he needs a good beating, and I nominate Greg for the duty.

From the descriptions I’ve read, these people sound like they’re my age. Late 20’s/early 30’s is well past the time (by at least a decade) to learn to talk to a cop who says “move on.”

That’s baloney. I bet you’ve never been confronted like that, or very rarely.

I’m well over 50 and still am sometimes surprised when some cop initiates a confrontation for no reason. Again, unless you have blood as cold as ice, without practicing, you’re unlikely to react the way you think you will. (On a related note, there’s a reason gun-owners practice muscle memory. In those sorts of situations, the brain just doesn’t react the way you want, when you want.)