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	<title>Comments on: Petty Tyranny in California</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 13:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85393</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85393</guid>
		<description>Interesting, I cannot prescribe antibiotics to another doctor in my practice for strep throat.  By law... heck, I, technically cannot listen to his lungs without billing him.

But cops can make snap judgments about the wife of a security guard.  Sweet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, I cannot prescribe antibiotics to another doctor in my practice for strep throat.  By law&#8230; heck, I, technically cannot listen to his lungs without billing him.</p>
<p>But cops can make snap judgments about the wife of a security guard.  Sweet.</p>
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		<title>By: annemg</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85124</link>
		<dc:creator>annemg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85124</guid>
		<description>Marty - Not quotas, *goals*.  You have to get the right terminology. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marty - Not quotas, *goals*.  You have to get the right terminology. <img src='http://www.theagitator.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Sukoi</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85104</link>
		<dc:creator>Sukoi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85104</guid>
		<description>Damn, when I first saw the title to this post, I thought that it said "Pretty Tranny in California".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn, when I first saw the title to this post, I thought that it said &#8220;Pretty Tranny in California&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: FWB</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85092</link>
		<dc:creator>FWB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85092</guid>
		<description>Can anyone say 14th Amendment Equal Protection?  The 14th provides absolutely NO out for non-equal treatment for everyone including police, gubbermint officials, or anyone.  No special immunity.  No special treatment as in death penalty for killing a LEO versus no death penalty for killing just a citizen.  Equal is equal is equal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can anyone say 14th Amendment Equal Protection?  The 14th provides absolutely NO out for non-equal treatment for everyone including police, gubbermint officials, or anyone.  No special immunity.  No special treatment as in death penalty for killing a LEO versus no death penalty for killing just a citizen.  Equal is equal is equal.</p>
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		<title>By: nom de guerre</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85089</link>
		<dc:creator>nom de guerre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85089</guid>
		<description>the "lords &#38; serfs" analogy is a good one.....but i'm pretty sure we're already there. 

it's a crime - punishable by imprisonment - to *tell a lie to* a federal agent. not "lie under oath", oh no no no. ANY lie. ANY time. it started off as "can't lie to the FBI", and is gradually morphing, of course, into all gummint agencies. this is moving fist-in-glove with the arming of IRS agents; park rangers; etc.

and if you believe what you're saying is the truth, but our government masters disagree? TS. am not a lawyer, but i *believe* that's why martha stewart did time. they said, "did you commit a crime?" she answered, evidently in good faith, "no."

then they had her. she was of course imprisoned, her lands and monies were of course forfeit to the crown....and the serfs were thus put on notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the &#8220;lords &amp; serfs&#8221; analogy is a good one&#8230;..but i&#8217;m pretty sure we&#8217;re already there. </p>
<p>it&#8217;s a crime - punishable by imprisonment - to *tell a lie to* a federal agent. not &#8220;lie under oath&#8221;, oh no no no. ANY lie. ANY time. it started off as &#8220;can&#8217;t lie to the FBI&#8221;, and is gradually morphing, of course, into all gummint agencies. this is moving fist-in-glove with the arming of IRS agents; park rangers; etc.</p>
<p>and if you believe what you&#8217;re saying is the truth, but our government masters disagree? TS. am not a lawyer, but i *believe* that&#8217;s why martha stewart did time. they said, &#8220;did you commit a crime?&#8221; she answered, evidently in good faith, &#8220;no.&#8221;</p>
<p>then they had her. she was of course imprisoned, her lands and monies were of course forfeit to the crown&#8230;.and the serfs were thus put on notice.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85072</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85072</guid>
		<description>Yet another example of the people employed by government becoming a new aristocracy.  They're paid more than private sector employees doing the same labor, they're exempt from the laws they create for others and they hold a horrifying amount of power ever the ruled class.  We're rapidly approaching a point that resembles medieval situation of Lords and serfs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another example of the people employed by government becoming a new aristocracy.  They&#8217;re paid more than private sector employees doing the same labor, they&#8217;re exempt from the laws they create for others and they hold a horrifying amount of power ever the ruled class.  We&#8217;re rapidly approaching a point that resembles medieval situation of Lords and serfs.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85054</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85054</guid>
		<description>Unless you work there, you don't know the real policies.  You may suspect you know them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unless you work there, you don&#8217;t know the real policies.  You may suspect you know them&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Marty</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85050</link>
		<dc:creator>Marty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85050</guid>
		<description>in St. Louis county, red light cameras are becoming very popular. in one venue, all the violations are sent to the police dept for review to see if the violation is 'justified'. I would love to know what happens when the mayor, an alderman, or another cop's plate comes through...

anyone who doesn't think tickets are fixed every day or certain people aren't given preferential treatment are very uninformed. I've been a firefighter for 18 years and have many friends working for different departments- I KNOW what the real policies are around here. Quotas and people who are 'off limits' are a given.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>in St. Louis county, red light cameras are becoming very popular. in one venue, all the violations are sent to the police dept for review to see if the violation is &#8216;justified&#8217;. I would love to know what happens when the mayor, an alderman, or another cop&#8217;s plate comes through&#8230;</p>
<p>anyone who doesn&#8217;t think tickets are fixed every day or certain people aren&#8217;t given preferential treatment are very uninformed. I&#8217;ve been a firefighter for 18 years and have many friends working for different departments- I KNOW what the real policies are around here. Quotas and people who are &#8216;off limits&#8217; are a given.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85049</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85049</guid>
		<description>David, 

   I don't know where you live, but in all the states I'm aware of, fixing tickets is a crime.   You don't have to write them, but once they are written, you can only go through the process.   

I think your perception of the American people as a whole is sad.  I believe the vast majority of people are honest and hardworking, wouldn't game the system, would turn in a lost wallet if they found it...etc etc.  I'm certainly happy not to have your world view, and In the nealry half a century I've been on this planet think mine is more accurate....with the exception of politicians of course.  

Matthew, 

  The plates in question are identical to a regular California license plate.   The only difference is if you run one through the computer, the address for the registered owner returns as their place of employment.   I know for a fact they don't get you out of parking tickets as a rule.  I also know that very few cops run the license plate through the computer until after the traffic stop is made.   At that point it's really up to the cop to write the ticket or not, the license plate has nothing to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, </p>
<p>   I don&#8217;t know where you live, but in all the states I&#8217;m aware of, fixing tickets is a crime.   You don&#8217;t have to write them, but once they are written, you can only go through the process.   </p>
<p>I think your perception of the American people as a whole is sad.  I believe the vast majority of people are honest and hardworking, wouldn&#8217;t game the system, would turn in a lost wallet if they found it&#8230;etc etc.  I&#8217;m certainly happy not to have your world view, and In the nealry half a century I&#8217;ve been on this planet think mine is more accurate&#8230;.with the exception of politicians of course.  </p>
<p>Matthew, </p>
<p>  The plates in question are identical to a regular California license plate.   The only difference is if you run one through the computer, the address for the registered owner returns as their place of employment.   I know for a fact they don&#8217;t get you out of parking tickets as a rule.  I also know that very few cops run the license plate through the computer until after the traffic stop is made.   At that point it&#8217;s really up to the cop to write the ticket or not, the license plate has nothing to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85046</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85046</guid>
		<description>From reading the Register article, a lot of it is that the private companies who are contracted to do the fine-collecting for the toll roads, parking enforcement, red light cameras etc. are not allowed access to the personal information on drivers with confidential plates.  

They DO get the address of the government agency for whom the holder works, but it seems that the record for these violations getting through to the actual violator is poor.

Police agencies can look up these, of course, but it appears that they have little incentive to do it and the statutory time limits on how quickly you must send a violation letter mean that in practice it doesn't happen.

I'd have my doubts about how well the plates prevent a driver from getting a serious ticket, but I'm pretty sure they're right about that in practice, it renders a person immune to these kinds of minor violations costing them anything.

One person had 430 recorded toll lane violations, for instance.

Some of the cases are simply that clerical errors don't get corrected; e.g. if someone's license plate isn't correctly in the tollway system and their transponder isn't working.  If they had a regular plate, they'd get an incorrect violation notice and they'd correct the problem; with the confidential plates, they never get a ticket and the problem remains unfixed.  I suspect that there are a lot of supposed problems that are actually in this category, at least in the toll lane department.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From reading the Register article, a lot of it is that the private companies who are contracted to do the fine-collecting for the toll roads, parking enforcement, red light cameras etc. are not allowed access to the personal information on drivers with confidential plates.  </p>
<p>They DO get the address of the government agency for whom the holder works, but it seems that the record for these violations getting through to the actual violator is poor.</p>
<p>Police agencies can look up these, of course, but it appears that they have little incentive to do it and the statutory time limits on how quickly you must send a violation letter mean that in practice it doesn&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d have my doubts about how well the plates prevent a driver from getting a serious ticket, but I&#8217;m pretty sure they&#8217;re right about that in practice, it renders a person immune to these kinds of minor violations costing them anything.</p>
<p>One person had 430 recorded toll lane violations, for instance.</p>
<p>Some of the cases are simply that clerical errors don&#8217;t get corrected; e.g. if someone&#8217;s license plate isn&#8217;t correctly in the tollway system and their transponder isn&#8217;t working.  If they had a regular plate, they&#8217;d get an incorrect violation notice and they&#8217;d correct the problem; with the confidential plates, they never get a ticket and the problem remains unfixed.  I suspect that there are a lot of supposed problems that are actually in this category, at least in the toll lane department.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85044</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85044</guid>
		<description>Having witnessed people calling in favors to get tickets "fixed", I think you're being willfully naive about the "small percentage gmaing the system".   I guess that it's only a small percentage of extremely honest people who don't game the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having witnessed people calling in favors to get tickets &#8220;fixed&#8221;, I think you&#8217;re being willfully naive about the &#8220;small percentage gmaing the system&#8221;.   I guess that it&#8217;s only a small percentage of extremely honest people who don&#8217;t game the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85037</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85037</guid>
		<description>Edmund, how does it protect people from getting recorded for thier violations?  The name of the registered owner is still available, so is the agency which employs them.  So it's not likely the tip of the iceberg but rather a small percentage of people who abuse the system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edmund, how does it protect people from getting recorded for thier violations?  The name of the registered owner is still available, so is the agency which employs them.  So it&#8217;s not likely the tip of the iceberg but rather a small percentage of people who abuse the system.</p>
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		<title>By: Edmund Dantes</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85036</link>
		<dc:creator>Edmund Dantes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85036</guid>
		<description>No this was what they were able to piece together via their own work since the DMV was putting up roadblocks to them getting more information.

This is more likely the tip of the iceberg rather than the whole thing. Especially when one takes into account the confidential plates protect people from even getting recorded for violations in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No this was what they were able to piece together via their own work since the DMV was putting up roadblocks to them getting more information.</p>
<p>This is more likely the tip of the iceberg rather than the whole thing. Especially when one takes into account the confidential plates protect people from even getting recorded for violations in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85027</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85027</guid>
		<description>Almost 1 million confidential plates in California and they found a half a dozen people gaming the system.  What's that like .0006 of a percent?  Color me unimpressed at the magnitude of this problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Almost 1 million confidential plates in California and they found a half a dozen people gaming the system.  What&#8217;s that like .0006 of a percent?  Color me unimpressed at the magnitude of this problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Billy Beck</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85013</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:35:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-85013</guid>
		<description>Go Google the word "nomenklatura," kids.

Here's a different angle:

It was three or four times last year alone that I was cold-called at home by the New York State Troopers' Police Benevolent Association.  They want my money.  Every time, I told them to leave me alone and go to Albany, which is already trying to beat my brains out in taxes.

Here's what I wonder: how long before my name ends up on The Wrong List?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Google the word &#8220;nomenklatura,&#8221; kids.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a different angle:</p>
<p>It was three or four times last year alone that I was cold-called at home by the New York State Troopers&#8217; Police Benevolent Association.  They want my money.  Every time, I told them to leave me alone and go to Albany, which is already trying to beat my brains out in taxes.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what I wonder: how long before my name ends up on The Wrong List?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84960</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84960</guid>
		<description>I agree with Colson. It would be very interesting to have a show run an investigation on "professional courtesy". 

But I'm sure the networks would be too afraid to tackle something like this..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Colson. It would be very interesting to have a show run an investigation on &#8220;professional courtesy&#8221;. </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m sure the networks would be too afraid to tackle something like this..</p>
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		<title>By: Danno49</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84958</link>
		<dc:creator>Danno49</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 15:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84958</guid>
		<description>There is seemingly no end to the hypocrisy and privilege entitlement of some in the law enforcement community.  The gap grows wider everyday between 'them' and 'us' .  It's no wonder more and more people stop respecting the badge and what it represents . . . because what it represents is power and prestige . . . no longer protection and service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is seemingly no end to the hypocrisy and privilege entitlement of some in the law enforcement community.  The gap grows wider everyday between &#8216;them&#8217; and &#8216;us&#8217; .  It&#8217;s no wonder more and more people stop respecting the badge and what it represents . . . because what it represents is power and prestige . . . no longer protection and service.</p>
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		<title>By: z</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84954</link>
		<dc:creator>z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84954</guid>
		<description>I can assure you from personal and 2nd hand experience that CA state, LA, and Orange County patrols do NOT extend professional courtesy on a regular basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can assure you from personal and 2nd hand experience that CA state, LA, and Orange County patrols do NOT extend professional courtesy on a regular basis.</p>
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		<title>By: Big Boy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84953</link>
		<dc:creator>Big Boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84953</guid>
		<description>Special deals for "special" people.  
Try getting the police to investigate a complaint against one of their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Special deals for &#8220;special&#8221; people.<br />
Try getting the police to investigate a complaint against one of their own.</p>
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		<title>By: colson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84938</link>
		<dc:creator>colson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 14:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/petty-tyranny-in-california/#comment-84938</guid>
		<description>Dave beat me to it. What, just because I work in the private sector and pay taxes, I'm not privy to "professional courtesy"? 

I'd be interested to see what would happen if you parked two cars in adjacent handicap spaces - one with the "special" plates and one with regular plates - give a litmus test of how the enforcement officers respond with some tangible measurements regarding the regularity of abuse. The only problem is prying back that "wall of blue".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave beat me to it. What, just because I work in the private sector and pay taxes, I&#8217;m not privy to &#8220;professional courtesy&#8221;? </p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested to see what would happen if you parked two cars in adjacent handicap spaces - one with the &#8220;special&#8221; plates and one with regular plates - give a litmus test of how the enforcement officers respond with some tangible measurements regarding the regularity of abuse. The only problem is prying back that &#8220;wall of blue&#8221;.</p>
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