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	<title>Comments on: Hmm&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 05:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kevin Carson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85321</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85321</guid>
		<description>For every honest prosecutor, there are a million who will fight tooth and nail to suppress evidence that threatens their conviction record.  In just about every single case of exoneration by DNA evidence I've read about, the prosecutors did everything in their power to keep the evidence from seeing the light of day.  These people are human filth.

As somebody said, when a man's livelihood depends on his not understanding something, you can pretty well count on his not understanding it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For every honest prosecutor, there are a million who will fight tooth and nail to suppress evidence that threatens their conviction record.  In just about every single case of exoneration by DNA evidence I&#8217;ve read about, the prosecutors did everything in their power to keep the evidence from seeing the light of day.  These people are human filth.</p>
<p>As somebody said, when a man&#8217;s livelihood depends on his not understanding something, you can pretty well count on his not understanding it.</p>
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		<title>By: law'n'order</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85303</link>
		<dc:creator>law'n'order</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85303</guid>
		<description>The comments sound like something from the maw of former Harris Cty, TX DA Chuck Rosenthal, an arrogant prig who generally ignored the clear letter and intent of law.

Too bad he's been run off after revelations of his email love affair with one of his underlings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments sound like something from the maw of former Harris Cty, TX DA Chuck Rosenthal, an arrogant prig who generally ignored the clear letter and intent of law.</p>
<p>Too bad he&#8217;s been run off after revelations of his email love affair with one of his underlings.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85210</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:24:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85210</guid>
		<description>colson - I'm sorry.  It's not a counterpoint.  I should've said, "Those bastards at Volokh brought up the irrelevent but interesting Avery case."   

Brad - Watkins instituted a Conviction Integrity Unit (something like that) within the DA's office.  I think he meant that "innoncence project,"  not the Innocence Project.  After 15 exhonerations, it seems like almost any amount of funding would be justified though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>colson - I&#8217;m sorry.  It&#8217;s not a counterpoint.  I should&#8217;ve said, &#8220;Those bastards at Volokh brought up the irrelevent but interesting Avery case.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Brad - Watkins instituted a Conviction Integrity Unit (something like that) within the DA&#8217;s office.  I think he meant that &#8220;innoncence project,&#8221;  not the Innocence Project.  After 15 exhonerations, it seems like almost any amount of funding would be justified though.</p>
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		<title>By: parse</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85207</link>
		<dc:creator>parse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85207</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;No cop and no prosecutor sees exonerating information as anything but an irritant. Justice is for Judges. Face the wall, there, perp.&lt;/I&gt;

Volney, it's ironic that you choose to make this gross generalization in response to a post that includes a link to an interview with a prosecutor who manifestly does not see exonerating information as an irritant. I</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>No cop and no prosecutor sees exonerating information as anything but an irritant. Justice is for Judges. Face the wall, there, perp.</i></p>
<p>Volney, it&#8217;s ironic that you choose to make this gross generalization in response to a post that includes a link to an interview with a prosecutor who manifestly does not see exonerating information as an irritant. I</p>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85196</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 11:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85196</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85129" rel="nofollow"&gt;@Brad Warbiany:&lt;/a&gt; I think the alleged prosecutor might be referring to that Dallas D.A. using his time on the job on the public dollar to look for cases to review. He's been proactively looking for people who have been railroaded and instigating new investigations himself, I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85129" rel="nofollow">@Brad Warbiany:</a> I think the alleged prosecutor might be referring to that Dallas D.A. using his time on the job on the public dollar to look for cases to review. He&#8217;s been proactively looking for people who have been railroaded and instigating new investigations himself, I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85159</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85159</guid>
		<description>Burdell:

I recently accepted a field placement internship with the Georgia Innocence Project for this fall semester. Innocence Projects are not one unified national organization. Each one is independent (although they do collaborate via the Innocence Network), and makes its own decisions regarding a number of things, including which cases to take.

I wouldn't say that the cases would always be a slam-dunk, but they are VERY specific about which cases they take on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burdell:</p>
<p>I recently accepted a field placement internship with the Georgia Innocence Project for this fall semester. Innocence Projects are not one unified national organization. Each one is independent (although they do collaborate via the Innocence Network), and makes its own decisions regarding a number of things, including which cases to take.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t say that the cases would always be a slam-dunk, but they are VERY specific about which cases they take on.</p>
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		<title>By: Volney</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85132</link>
		<dc:creator>Volney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85132</guid>
		<description>No cop and no prosecutor sees exonerating information as anything but an irritant.  Justice is for Judges.  Face the wall, there, perp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No cop and no prosecutor sees exonerating information as anything but an irritant.  Justice is for Judges.  Face the wall, there, perp.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85129</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:53:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85129</guid>
		<description>One question...

Doesn't the Innocence Project (and other similar organizations) get its funding from private sources?

If so, why should Mr. Prosecutor care whether it's a waste of money?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One question&#8230;</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t the Innocence Project (and other similar organizations) get its funding from private sources?</p>
<p>If so, why should Mr. Prosecutor care whether it&#8217;s a waste of money?</p>
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		<title>By: annemg</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85121</link>
		<dc:creator>annemg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85121</guid>
		<description>Ever, not every.  Typing too fast.  And by law enforcement, I mean DAs and police and such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever, not every.  Typing too fast.  And by law enforcement, I mean DAs and police and such.</p>
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		<title>By: annemg</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85120</link>
		<dc:creator>annemg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85120</guid>
		<description>Many of the people I have met who are or want to be in law enforcement seem to have this "us vs. them" attitude.  Have you every been taken into custody, or been to criminal court over something?  You're one of "them", and your rights don't matter anymore, nor should you have any.   I want to invent a wiffle bat with the Bill of Rights printed on it.  I think it would work. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the people I have met who are or want to be in law enforcement seem to have this &#8220;us vs. them&#8221; attitude.  Have you every been taken into custody, or been to criminal court over something?  You&#8217;re one of &#8220;them&#8221;, and your rights don&#8217;t matter anymore, nor should you have any.   I want to invent a wiffle bat with the Bill of Rights printed on it.  I think it would work. <img src='http://www.theagitator.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: adam</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85117</link>
		<dc:creator>adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85117</guid>
		<description>May this moron (prosecutor) be railroaded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May this moron (prosecutor) be railroaded.</p>
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		<title>By: colson</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85115</link>
		<dc:creator>colson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 01:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85115</guid>
		<description>Alex - the Avery case isn't a counterpoint. At all. I do not mean to demean the victims in the case, but the assumption attempts to lead you to believe that he was dangerous then and his incarceration was justified for future events that had yet to come to fruition. If this "counterpoint" is the basis for law, it is justification to not ever let a prisoner out of jail.

The better question is whether Avery's misspent time in jail was a factor in the later actions which landed him back in prison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex - the Avery case isn&#8217;t a counterpoint. At all. I do not mean to demean the victims in the case, but the assumption attempts to lead you to believe that he was dangerous then and his incarceration was justified for future events that had yet to come to fruition. If this &#8220;counterpoint&#8221; is the basis for law, it is justification to not ever let a prisoner out of jail.</p>
<p>The better question is whether Avery&#8217;s misspent time in jail was a factor in the later actions which landed him back in prison.</p>
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		<title>By: someone</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85112</link>
		<dc:creator>someone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85112</guid>
		<description>I would offer Nifong as a counter example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong
of course, I'm sure the prosecutor has a very good explanation of why Nifong was "wrongly convicted in the court of public opinion" and therefore why the Duke Lacrosse team should be in jail.  Prosecutors never have any agenda other than that of justice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would offer Nifong as a counter example: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Nifong</a><br />
of course, I&#8217;m sure the prosecutor has a very good explanation of why Nifong was &#8220;wrongly convicted in the court of public opinion&#8221; and therefore why the Duke Lacrosse team should be in jail.  Prosecutors never have any agenda other than that of justice.</p>
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		<title>By: Burdell</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85110</link>
		<dc:creator>Burdell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85110</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Radley.  That confirms what I thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Radley.  That confirms what I thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85106</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85106</guid>
		<description>If you consider how many false police reports are filed (grouped by the filer or police that falsified info, and to what degree things were false), I think you'd see a HUGE percentage.  Then track each report to whether there was a payout, a conviction, an acquittal, or a dismissal of charges.

There are a LOT of people that are wrongly accused, far more than wrongly convicted.  The latter is worse, and is likely bigger than we know, especially for crimes where there is no DNA.

All jurors should find people innocent if there is not tangible evidence.  If it's all statements, then all it takes is getting multiple people to tell the same lie to say "look there are 5 people saying this happened, so it must have, even though there is no proof!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you consider how many false police reports are filed (grouped by the filer or police that falsified info, and to what degree things were false), I think you&#8217;d see a HUGE percentage.  Then track each report to whether there was a payout, a conviction, an acquittal, or a dismissal of charges.</p>
<p>There are a LOT of people that are wrongly accused, far more than wrongly convicted.  The latter is worse, and is likely bigger than we know, especially for crimes where there is no DNA.</p>
<p>All jurors should find people innocent if there is not tangible evidence.  If it&#8217;s all statements, then all it takes is getting multiple people to tell the same lie to say &#8220;look there are 5 people saying this happened, so it must have, even though there is no proof!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85105</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 23:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85105</guid>
		<description>cjwhines proceeds to get owned pretty badley in the rest of that discussion.  Someone did bring up a good counterpoint though:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Avery


On a completely unrelated note, this story is just awesome.  Especially for someone who hates everything New York. http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2008/04/runoff-to-determine-mets-new-8.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cjwhines proceeds to get owned pretty badley in the rest of that discussion.  Someone did bring up a good counterpoint though:  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Avery" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Avery</a></p>
<p>On a completely unrelated note, this story is just awesome.  Especially for someone who hates everything New York. <a href="http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2008/04/runoff-to-determine-mets-new-8.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/2008/04/runoff-to-determine-mets-new-8.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Radley Balko</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85100</link>
		<dc:creator>Radley Balko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85100</guid>
		<description>I should add that my post above isn't a criticism.

They of course have limited resources, and so have to choose their cases carefully.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that my post above isn&#8217;t a criticism.</p>
<p>They of course have limited resources, and so have to choose their cases carefully.</p>
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		<title>By: Radley Balko</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85097</link>
		<dc:creator>Radley Balko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85097</guid>
		<description>Burdell --

Yeah, they tend to only take slam-dunk cases--a small percentage of the applications they receive, and generally cases for which some sort of definitive test can prove innocence -- like DNA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burdell &#8211;</p>
<p>Yeah, they tend to only take slam-dunk cases&#8211;a small percentage of the applications they receive, and generally cases for which some sort of definitive test can prove innocence &#8212; like DNA.</p>
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		<title>By: Burdell</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85093</link>
		<dc:creator>Burdell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85093</guid>
		<description>Radley, or anyone else who's had dealings with Innocence Projects:

What is the rejection rate?  That is, how many cases does the average Innocence Project receive every year that it concludes isn't worth pursuing?  

I seem to remember reading that it is substantial.  Which would blow a major hole in this guy's theory, since it means resources aren't being wasted on the "genuinely guilty," and focuses them on cases where there is at least some doubt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radley, or anyone else who&#8217;s had dealings with Innocence Projects:</p>
<p>What is the rejection rate?  That is, how many cases does the average Innocence Project receive every year that it concludes isn&#8217;t worth pursuing?  </p>
<p>I seem to remember reading that it is substantial.  Which would blow a major hole in this guy&#8217;s theory, since it means resources aren&#8217;t being wasted on the &#8220;genuinely guilty,&#8221; and focuses them on cases where there is at least some doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85086</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/04/08/hmm-7/#comment-85086</guid>
		<description>I have a IQ of 135ish and have a difficult time speling my words sometimes. :0 

What's troubling is the guy's phrase "genuinely innocent." There is a school of thought in America that if an individual is falsely accused of a crime, but does have a criminal past, or had a certain plant in his pocket or was committing another crime at the time of his arrest, then the nature of the evidence isn't important. He's a criminal and must go to jail, even if he's innocent of the charge he's prosecuted on. 

What the "law-and-order" types really want is "character prisons," where they can toss unsavory individuals without having to produce a victim or any other evidence. My mom, clueless has she is, thinks that people, mainly drug addicts, should be pro-actively imprisoned to protect the public. The phrase "rule of law" is now cliché, an homage to the moral pretense of older generation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a IQ of 135ish and have a difficult time speling my words sometimes. :0 </p>
<p>What&#8217;s troubling is the guy&#8217;s phrase &#8220;genuinely innocent.&#8221; There is a school of thought in America that if an individual is falsely accused of a crime, but does have a criminal past, or had a certain plant in his pocket or was committing another crime at the time of his arrest, then the nature of the evidence isn&#8217;t important. He&#8217;s a criminal and must go to jail, even if he&#8217;s innocent of the charge he&#8217;s prosecuted on. </p>
<p>What the &#8220;law-and-order&#8221; types really want is &#8220;character prisons,&#8221; where they can toss unsavory individuals without having to produce a victim or any other evidence. My mom, clueless has she is, thinks that people, mainly drug addicts, should be pro-actively imprisoned to protect the public. The phrase &#8220;rule of law&#8221; is now cliché, an homage to the moral pretense of older generation.</p>
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