As to sacrificing for a cause greater than myself, there is no cause greater than myself.

He wasn’t addressing his supporters with his calls for sacrifice. He was addressing me. And fuck that God-damned, worthless piece of retarded shit. How fucking God-damned stupid does he think I am to swallow that sanctimonious bullshit?

You want sacrifice? Go suck urself dude. I want the free ride, the limos, the hookers, and the cocaine at taxpayer expense the gop inner circle has been getting these past 8 years.

This was my original point.

Libertarians have said how to prevent it until they’re blue in the face- greatly shrink or eliminate the state, thereby leaving aspiring plutocrats with no levers to co-opt. Sadly, the people who are the most vociferous in condemning plutocratic manipulations of state power are almost always the people who would be most horrified by the idea of actually reducing the state’s reach. Furthermore, libertarian and classical liberal thinkers like F.A. Hayek and James Buchanan have written at length about ideas for constitutional structures less vulnerable to abuse. Your own political ideology may make those solutions unacceptable to you, and that’s fine, but it’s ridiculous to claim that people aren’t offering solutions.

No, I do believe that the answer lies in developing constitutional structures that are less vulnerable to abuse. But I also tend to think that the average self-described libertarian is not walking down that path. Granted, I have not read as much classical liberal philosophy as I should.

First, McCain didn’t merely say “money and fame aren’t everything.” He said they were a “small thing.” He also specifically mentions easing “the material hardships our children will bear,” as part of that “small thing,” which suggests a troubling attitude towards family love and devotion.

Second, context matters. When I talk about “justice,” I mean one thing; if a socialist uses the term, he probably means something very different. If the libertarian Radley Balko said that anti-discrimination laws are wrong, I would draw a different conclusion about his intent than I would if a guy with a shaved head, sig rune tattoos, and 3,000 posts at the StormFront Message Boards said the same thing.

Likewise, if a local minister raising money for a homeless shelter called on people to sacrifice for something greater than themselves, that has different implications than when a statist, militarist politician running for President says it. In the context of that sort of politics, glorification of self-sacrifice and contempt for private life has a history, and it’s an ugly one.

Thehim said,
“That’s what I’m driving at. There isn’t a major distinction between wielding power through wealth and wielding power through government. People who become wealthy enough will eventually have the power to essentially become government. There isn’t a big broad line between the two. Most people understand the dangers of allowing those out for profit co-opting the levers of government for their own advantage, but I hardly ever hear anyone articulate how to prevent it within a capitalist system.”

Libertarians have said how to prevent it until they’re blue in the face- greatly shrink or eliminate the state, thereby leaving aspiring plutocrats with no levers to co-opt. Sadly, the people who are the most vociferous in condemning plutocratic manipulations of state power are almost always the people who would be most horrified by the idea of actually reducing the state’s reach. Furthermore, libertarian and classical liberal thinkers like F.A. Hayek and James Buchanan have written at length about ideas for constitutional structures less vulnerable to abuse. Your own political ideology may make those solutions unacceptable to you, and that’s fine, but it’s ridiculous to claim that people aren’t offering solutions.

“If they are the defining traits of capitalism, then the things that have those traits are capitalism. That’s what “defining traits” are. Flying is not a defining trait of birds, since, as you point out, airplanes also fly.”

No. Giving birth to live young is one of the defining traits of placental mammals; a species that does not reproduce that way is not a placental mammal, by definition. This does not make kangaroos, scorpions, or hammerhead sharks placental mammals. Autocracy is one of the defining traits of Stalinism, but that does not make Mussolini, Louis XIV, or Diocletian a Stalinist.

At any rate, you are merely playing with semantics. Words have meanings, and “capitalism” does not mean “any system where people generally act in their own self-interest.” That’s true whether you’re using the word “capitalism” to mean a laissez-faire free market or the interventionist mixed economy.

Tokin42 is apparently new here.

#27 Greg N.
What’s a stink tanker?

That would be any member of a think tank that advocates a philosophy different from my own. And if not, then it should be.

Nah, I’m just guessing. It might have nothing to do with philosophy and everything to do with chili.

The phrase you are looking for is “doing well by doing good.” It predates Tom Lehrer by years. Just ask any Beltway Bandit or Stink Tanker.

chsw (grew up in and around DC)

I’m beginning to wonder if some of you aren’t just reflexively anti-miltary to the point where you think every call to duty and honor means someone wants american global domination. Only one problem, that isn’t what he even came close to saying. The duty he’s calling people to is what Radley does for his living.

If you find faults with our country, make it a better one. If you are disappointed with the mistakes of government, join its ranks and work to correct them.

It’s sad that in explaining to people that “money and fame aren’t everything” and “you’ll be judged by what you do, not what you own” people instinctively jump to the conclusion that he’s an obvious brown-shirt without the funny mustache.

@15
those are defining traits of capitalism. that does not mean that anything with those traits is also capitalism. sort of like if i said birds fly, so if something flies than it is a bird. Airplanes are not birds.

If they are the defining traits of capitalism, then the things that have those traits are capitalism. That’s what “defining traits” are. Flying is not a defining trait of birds, since, as you point out, airplanes also fly.

Prof.

I call bullshit on worldwide buccaneer capitalism doing more to lift people out of poverty or anything else. I doubt the victims of savage capitalism in Chile, Brazil, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, or Iraq would agree. I’m sure that those who’ve been lifted up by the rising tide of Bakuninist capitalism are well and truly outnumbered by corporatism’s victims.

I’m down with you on individual liberties and the overreaching state, but if you believe that those policies of the state that encroach on civil liberties don’t directly and substantially benefit corporatism, or that ‘the private sector’ is somehow opposed to repressive police tactics then you are delusional. After all, Uncle Miltie thought that the government had only three functions: Open new markets through military adventurism, crush dissent at home through capricious and repressive police tactics, and deliver tax luchre to corporate cronies.

Prof.