Comments on: Thousands of Years of Tradition Inhibiting the Drug War http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/ It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do. Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:41:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Of Interest « Thoughts on Freedom http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-83323 Of Interest « Thoughts on Freedom Sun, 30 Mar 2008 06:49:02 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-83323 [...] More casualties in the War on [...] [...] More casualties in the War on [...]

]]> By: NikFromNYC http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82928 NikFromNYC Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:10:15 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82928 "U.S. foreign policy has nothing to do with it. They hate us for our freedom. Thankfully, our government is working tirelessly to eliminate that source of antagonism." Prohibition is freedom. War is peace. Pain is pleasure. “U.S. foreign policy has nothing to do with it. They hate us for our freedom. Thankfully, our government is working tirelessly to eliminate that source of antagonism.”

Prohibition is freedom. War is peace. Pain is pleasure.

]]> By: Mcaristotle http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82881 Mcaristotle Fri, 28 Mar 2008 01:00:25 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82881 They can always turn down the aid if they think tradition means that much to them. They aren't entitled to it y'know. They can always turn down the aid if they think tradition means that much to them. They aren’t entitled to it y’know.

]]> By: jim http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82874 jim Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:07:41 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82874 The failure of Latin America to prosper is primarily due to poor economic policy. Of course, the leaders will blame foreigners (ie America), but that's just to duck responsibility. Most Latin American countries have over-regulated economies with weak property rights. Rule of law is weak, corruption is rampant, and the government controls too much of the economy. These are all poor policy choices which they could change tomorrow, but choose not to. It's partly due to corrupt elites, but an ignorant public that supports failed left-wing Marxist economics is also a major cause. The failure of Latin America to prosper is primarily due to poor economic policy. Of course, the leaders will blame foreigners (ie America), but that’s just to duck responsibility. Most Latin American countries have over-regulated economies with weak property rights. Rule of law is weak, corruption is rampant, and the government controls too much of the economy. These are all poor policy choices which they could change tomorrow, but choose not to. It’s partly due to corrupt elites, but an ignorant public that supports failed left-wing Marxist economics is also a major cause.

]]> By: matt http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82870 matt Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:40:59 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82870 Dysfunctional government in Central & South America has been a tradition ever since the independence movements of the early 19th Century. Oligarchs hold the real power throughout the region, and corruption is endemic. The narcotics trade fits perfectly with this milieu. The combination of money and power only exacerbates the underlying problems of society. Anti Americanism is a long honored tradition that has little to do with the narcotics trade. Narcotraficantes are working to destabilize governments throughout the Americas, including our own. In addition one cannot rationally condone the manufacture of poison on the grounds that someone else is using it. If coca is an essential to life in those countries, that's fine. But not here. The social, medical, and societal tolls are far too steep. Dysfunctional government in Central & South America has been a tradition ever since the independence movements of the early 19th Century. Oligarchs hold the real power throughout the region, and corruption is endemic. The narcotics trade fits perfectly with this milieu. The combination of money and power only exacerbates the underlying problems of society. Anti Americanism is a long honored tradition that has little to do with the narcotics trade.

Narcotraficantes are working to destabilize governments throughout the Americas, including our own. In addition one cannot rationally condone the manufacture of poison on the grounds that someone else is using it. If coca is an essential to life in those countries, that’s fine. But not here. The social, medical, and societal tolls are far too steep.

]]> By: Randy Bean http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82297 Randy Bean Tue, 25 Mar 2008 18:04:36 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82297 Thomas Jackson, nice non sequitor. Bravo! Thomas Jackson, nice non sequitor. Bravo!

]]> By: Thomas Jackson http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82156 Thomas Jackson Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:07:38 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82156 Ah imagine those evil Westerners who did away with human sacrifice and suttee. Well we can all rejoice in the concept that paradise is only a toke away. Now can we bring back time honored traditions like slavery, child labor, and human sacrifice that those awful Westerners forced the locals to give up! Ah imagine those evil Westerners who did away with human sacrifice and suttee. Well we can all rejoice in the concept that paradise is only a toke away. Now can we bring back time honored traditions like slavery, child labor, and human sacrifice that those awful Westerners forced the locals to give up!

]]> By: witless chum http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82026 witless chum Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:10:48 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82026 Andre brings up the most important antidrug point to me. Even if teh drugs is bad for and will fry your brain until it's only fit for a McMuffin, our current drug policy makes other (mostly browner) people pay the price for our love of the cocaine. Even if drugs are the worst scourge of hell, we in the U.S. ought to pay the consequences, not everyone between us and the Andes. Andre brings up the most important antidrug point to me.

Even if teh drugs is bad for and will fry your brain until it’s only fit for a McMuffin, our current drug policy makes other (mostly browner) people pay the price for our love of the cocaine. Even if drugs are the worst scourge of hell, we in the U.S. ought to pay the consequences, not everyone between us and the Andes.

]]> By: CK http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82022 CK Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:06:18 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-82022 "The Politics of Heroin in SouthEast Asia." 1970's "The Politics of Cocaine in South America." As yet unwritten but only because sequels are never as funny as the original. And isn't it about time we realized that the old model of free trade is not applicable in a world where capital and labour can freely flow to whichever region has the greatest absolute advantage? I do believe that the coca fields are in privatized hands in Bolivia. What other neo-con reforms would it benefit the people of South America to emulate? “The Politics of Heroin in SouthEast Asia.” 1970’s
“The Politics of Cocaine in South America.” As yet unwritten but only because sequels are never as funny as the original.
And isn’t it about time we realized that the old model of free trade is not applicable in a world where capital and labour can freely flow to whichever region has the greatest absolute advantage?
I do believe that the coca fields are in privatized hands in Bolivia.
What other neo-con reforms would it benefit the people of South America to emulate?

]]> By: André Kenji http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81950 André Kenji Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:32:52 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81950 And that´s not considering that almost all major criminal organizations in Latin America makes their money from drug trade. As a Brazilian all I can say is thank you. And that´s not considering that almost all major criminal organizations in Latin America makes their money from drug trade. As a Brazilian all I can say is thank you.

]]> By: John Rice http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81924 John Rice Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:19:57 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81924 Mike-- You claim "Latin American has been electing screwball Marxist twits for a whole century completely independent of any appreciation for US policies in terms beyond envy." They should appreciate what policies--the Monroe Doctrine? Manifest Destiny? How we treat our own indigenous peoples? Your view of history and Latin American leaders would be hilarious if not so dangerous in perpetuating myopic myths. Latinos reject our control of them for self-control. They reject our fascism for socialism. They reject privatization of resources for corporate benefit, in favor of their own national benefit. And every one of their leaders in debates/speeches makes our leader look like the amoral idiot he truly is--the latest in a long bi-partisan line of USA leaders who have tried their best to subjugate/dominate everything to the South. They hate us because of the constant screwing they get about every time one of our leaders looks around and notices they're still there and mostly free. Or when they decide to nationalize and take control of their own sovereign lands from corporate powers --Arbenz being one of the first to be brought down by our CIA. The following is a partial list of nations where US military "interventions" have taken place in Latin America: Argentina Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chile, Cuba, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Ecuador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Puerto Rico and Uruguay. Many of those nations we have attacked multiple times to change their leaders. And that doesn't include the non-military 'interventions' we have instigated. What's not to love about that, Mike? I mean, doesn't everyone love an empire, or just those enjoying the benefits? Mike–
You claim “Latin American has been electing screwball Marxist twits for a whole century completely independent of any appreciation for US policies in terms beyond envy.”

They should appreciate what policies–the Monroe Doctrine? Manifest Destiny? How we treat our own indigenous peoples?

Your view of history and Latin American leaders would be hilarious if not so dangerous in perpetuating myopic myths.

Latinos reject our control of them for self-control. They reject our fascism for socialism. They reject privatization of resources for corporate benefit, in favor of their own national benefit.

And every one of their leaders in debates/speeches makes our leader look like the amoral idiot he truly is–the latest in a long bi-partisan line of USA leaders who have tried their best to subjugate/dominate everything to the South.

They hate us because of the constant screwing they get about every time one of our leaders looks around and notices they’re still there and mostly free. Or when they decide to nationalize and take control of their own sovereign lands from corporate powers –Arbenz being one of the first to be brought down by our CIA.

The following is a partial list of nations where US military “interventions” have taken place in Latin America: Argentina
Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Chile, Cuba, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Ecuador, Grenada, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Puerto Rico and Uruguay. Many of those nations we have attacked multiple times to change their leaders. And that doesn’t include the non-military ‘interventions’ we have instigated.

What’s not to love about that, Mike? I mean, doesn’t everyone love an empire, or just those enjoying the benefits?

]]> By: JJH2 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81890 JJH2 Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:03:29 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81890 In point of fact, the Reason.com book review that Mike Schneider cites does not support his claim that: "Latin American has been electing screwball Marxist twits for a whole century completely independent of any appreciation for US policies in terms beyond envy." In fact, while the review indicates the book is critical of the "dependency theory" of economic relations, it expressly highlights what a significant factor US military adventurism in the region has been for the course of South American domestic regimes: "Dependency theorists make much of Washington's military interventions in Latin America and the Caribbean during the past half-century" Of course, it's not JUST "dependency theorists" that make hay of the fact, because the injustice of American military adventurism abroad is not just (or even primarily) fodder for economic theories. It may be that dependency theorists are WRONG about the motivations behind US interventions -- but of course, accepting that as true DOESN'T mean that American military intervention IS NOT one of the major reasons that South Americans dislike the US government. I don't have to accept any particular economic theory behind the foreign intervention in my country to despise the fact of the intervention itself. Additionally, it's worth noting that the property claims asserted by US companies in South America during the early to mid-20th centuries were most likely illegitimate, and predicated on prior collusion with outrageously corrupt regimes and politicos, themselves the more or less direct beneficiaries of the previous colonial regimes. In point of fact, the Reason.com book review that Mike Schneider cites does not support his claim that:

“Latin American has been electing screwball Marxist twits for a whole century completely independent of any appreciation for US policies in terms beyond envy.”

In fact, while the review indicates the book is critical of the “dependency theory” of economic relations, it expressly highlights what a significant factor US military adventurism in the region has been for the course of South American domestic regimes:

“Dependency theorists make much of Washington’s military interventions in Latin America and the Caribbean during the past half-century”

Of course, it’s not JUST “dependency theorists” that make hay of the fact, because the injustice of American military adventurism abroad is not just (or even primarily) fodder for economic theories. It may be that dependency theorists are WRONG about the motivations behind US interventions — but of course, accepting that as true DOESN’T mean that American military intervention IS NOT one of the major reasons that South Americans dislike the US government. I don’t have to accept any particular economic theory behind the foreign intervention in my country to despise the fact of the intervention itself.

Additionally, it’s worth noting that the property claims asserted by US companies in South America during the early to mid-20th centuries were most likely illegitimate, and predicated on prior collusion with outrageously corrupt regimes and politicos, themselves the more or less direct beneficiaries of the previous colonial regimes.

]]> By: Dave Krueger http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81852 Dave Krueger Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:55:21 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81852 U.S. foreign policy has nothing to do with it. They hate us for our freedom. Thankfully, our government is working tirelessly to eliminate that source of antagonism. U.S. foreign policy has nothing to do with it. They hate us for our freedom. Thankfully, our government is working tirelessly to eliminate that source of antagonism.

]]> By: Mike Schneider http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81838 Mike Schneider Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:11:57 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81838 > The sad thing is, our scorched earth drug policy in Latin America > is a big reason why the entire continent hates us, and has turned > to electing hostile political leaders like Chavez and Morales. Who > can blame them? Cause-effect fallacy. Latin American has been electing screwball Marxist twits for a whole century completely independent of any appreciation for US policies in terms beyond envy. The magazine you write for even reviewed a book concerning this phenomenon awhile back: http://www.reason.com/news/show/27774.html > The sad thing is, our scorched earth drug policy in Latin America
> is a big reason why the entire continent hates us, and has turned
> to electing hostile political leaders like Chavez and Morales. Who
> can blame them?

Cause-effect fallacy.

Latin American has been electing screwball Marxist twits for a whole century completely independent of any appreciation for US policies in terms beyond envy.

The magazine you write for even reviewed a book concerning this phenomenon awhile back:

http://www.reason.com/news/show/27774.html

]]> By: Dale http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81832 Dale Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:37:55 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81832 There's nothing wrong with coca as such. Coca tea is a mild stimulant, better for you than regular tea or coffee because it doesn't have caffeine. If people want to take a big batch of coca leaves and reduce it into highly potent drug, that's their problem. Coca needs to be legalized along with marijuana. There’s nothing wrong with coca as such. Coca tea is a mild stimulant, better for you than regular tea or coffee because it doesn’t have caffeine. If people want to take a big batch of coca leaves and reduce it into highly potent drug, that’s their problem. Coca needs to be legalized along with marijuana.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81822 Stephen Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:41:58 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/23/thousand-of-years-of-tradition-inhibiting-the-drug-war/#comment-81822 American-supported, UN-adopted anti-drug legislation is one of the reasons why the Netherlands' drug policy is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_the_Netherlands#Implications_of_international_law" rel="nofollow">so schizophrenic</a>. Even in Russia (hardly a hotbed of tolerance), legislators have admitted that their anti-drug laws were not enacted for domestic reasons, but rather at the behest of international anti-drug warriors. American-supported, UN-adopted anti-drug legislation is one of the reasons why the Netherlands’ drug policy is so schizophrenic. Even in Russia (hardly a hotbed of tolerance), legislators have admitted that their anti-drug laws were not enacted for domestic reasons, but rather at the behest of international anti-drug warriors.

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