TheAgitator.com
Huckabee on Obama-Wright
Wednesday, March 19th, 2008There’s plenty not to like about Mike Huckabee’s public policy, but many on the right sure could take a lesson in his temperament. To his great credit, the guy actually lives his faith, he doesn’t merely wear it.
Here’s what he said about Obama’s pastor:
And one other thing I think we’ve gotta remember. As easy as it is for those of us who are white, to look back and say “That’s a terrible statement!”…I grew up in a very segregated south. And I think that you have to cut some slack — and I’m gonna be probably the only Conservative in America who’s gonna say something like this, but I’m just tellin’ you — we’ve gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told “you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can’t sit out there with everyone else. There’s a separate waiting room in the doctor’s office. Here’s where you sit on the bus…” And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me.
How refreshing to hear some actual empathy from a Christian Republican for once.
And I agree with him. After 300+ years of slavery; a hundred years of segregation, intimidation, and second-class citizenry; and a few decades of watching their families be destroyed by the drug war and ill-advised welfare programs, I don’t begrudge black folks the occasional indulgence in righteous anger–even obviously crazy, raving righteous anger. Particularly within the sanctuary of a church. The indignation from the right over Rev. Wright is ridiculous, and frankly seems manufactured. Is he out of his mind? Of course he is. But he isn’t alone. Sit in on a Southern Baptist sermon sometime.
I could care less what Obama’s “spiritual advisor” has said. Obama hasn’t governed like a conspiracy-minded black nationalist. He has governed like a mainstream liberal. There’s no reason to think that’ll change if he’s in the White House. Go ahead and attack him for voting like a leftist. I have, and will. But until the right stops genuflecting before Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and the gang–people who to the detriment of us all (and unlike Rev. Wright) do have actual political clout in this country–you’ll have to forgive me for not taking them terribly seriously when they wax indignant about reverse bigotry from the pulpit.
As an agnostic, I think quite a bit of what transpires on Sunday mornings in this country is crazy (non Christian religions feel free to sub in your own day of worship). Funny how it’s the people who pray in stained-glass houses who are so quick to hurl the stones.
Good for Huckabee for being a voice of sanity in all of this.
Radley, from a Southern Baptist to an agnostic: amen.
Glad to see, like you said, that Huckabee is demonstrating some real empathy there. I always thought of empathy as a Christian trait. How sad that you have to call such displays from Christians “refreshing.”
There are so many reasons to support or oppose a candidate out there that actually matter, I’m dumfounded at how many people resort to race, gender, or what their “pastor” said.
And look at the result. The right said Obama’s pastor hates white America. And Obama came out and knocked everyone’s socks off with a very good speech that addresses a very real but ultimately very irrelevant issue. Guess who won the public relations war?
If the right had focused on the fact that Obama’s idea of “change” is mainstream liberalism, there’s not really any way he can deny that one, or even gloss over it. That would have come back to bite him in the general election.
But because Hannity et al focused on Rev. Wright, Obama has come out not only unscathed but probably more popular and less susceptible to genuine criticism over his policies.
Shame.
“Guess who won the public relations war?”
This has to be a joke. I agree with and gererally like Mike Huckabee. I thought Obama’s speech was pompous with liitle real substance but I’m not going to be down on him when I have friends that are at least as crazy. However, there is no chance in hell that this Reverend Wright thing has been good for Obama.
I like what Huckabee had to say there…but YOU broadbrushing Southern Baptists…nice. Perhaps you should note that Southern Baptist churches are independent from the convention and aside from a common ’statement of belief’ on specific theological issues, one SBC church is very much UNLIKE another. I’ve attended 3 and have yet to hear ANY political statement or urgings be they conservative, liberal or libertarian in any sermon.
Great post Radley!
> To his great credit, (Huckabee) actually lives his faith, he doesn’t merely wear it.
If Obama lived his faith like Huckabee has, he’d have been out of the race just as long.
“I could care less what Obama’s ’spiritual advisor’ has said. ”
So you do care, then?
(couldn’t care less)
(Also, good post)
I disagree with Obama on many things, but these conservatives need to focus on keeping its own house in ord: why attak a liberal democratic candidate with unfounded arguments when the Republican candidate for president isn’t even an conservative? Clearly the greatest threats to conservative thought and principle are not the Barack Obamas, but the John McCains who masquerade as conservatives to advance thier own political career, discrediting conservatism in the process. Even though I agree with what Huckabee has said, there are way better arguments to put out the limp intellectualism critics have embraced these past two weeks.
Anyways, good post Radley
I’ve been looking for a great post on this subject and finally found it. I think that you, Radley, in particular, having been in the trenches of racial injustice in the South, see the issue the right way. There is a huge gap between the way black people feel about this country and the way white people *think* they should feel. Obama, so far, has done as good a job as anyone at straddling the divide.
I didn’t see righteous indignation when I heard wright speaking, I heard flat-out racism tinged with conspiratorial craziness. I’m a faithful atheist (agnostics are afraid to take a stand) but even I know the teachings of christ and Rev. Wright should spend more time actually studying the word instead of truther pamphlets espousing whacked out conspiracy theories. If he were actually trying to deal with the issues that have been keeping a large chunk of our population in a second-class status instead of blaming it on everything from the CIA to “god hates white people” I’d be willing to turn the other cheek, but since he isn’t…..
Crazy racists and bigots should be called out for what they are, not given a pass because their family history is rough. Obama called his grandmother a racist because she was afraid of black men coming up to her on the street (ala jesse jackson) but he won’t label his spiritual advisor with the same tag after decades of statements about evil white people? Puh-lease.
Alex: Who thinks Obama’s a secret Muslim now?
Wright is a follower of a guy who preached:
It takes a demented mind to draw a parallel between this sort of theology and the theology of mainstream denomination.
Do not repay evil for evil.
When hunting a monster, one must be careful to not become a monster.
It’s sad times when the Bible and Nietzsche agree on philosophy.
“Alex: Who thinks Obama’s a secret Muslim now?”
I don’t think anyone who was ever going to vote for him does, but there’s been many polls like this since the story came out. http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1824791220080319?feedType=RSS&feedName=politicsNews&rpc=22&sp=true
” I think that you, Radley, in particular, having been in the trenches of racial injustice in the South, see the issue the right way.”
I think Radley is one of the most important journalists and bloggers in America today. But he has not been, in any possible sense of the phrase, “in the trenches” of racial injustice in the South.
“Obama called his grandmother a racist because she was afraid of black men coming up to her on the street (ala jesse jackson) . . .”
Well if you listen to that part he did. Later on, he says, “[whites] are told . . . that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.” Who knows which Obama to believe.
Right on Radley,
My wife and I were talking about this last night, and we’ve both come to the conclusion that most white people just don’t get it. When my father was a young man, the Jim Crow south was still in full effect. Black kids were bused an hour from town to go to the black high school and our town had a black specific elementary school. My dad was in fights over his association with black musicians as he was into doo-wop and motown music. We’re only a few generations removed from slavery and it’s only 46 years since Georege Wallace said “I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.” in his inagural speech. On top of that, racist d-bags throughout the country have continued the tradition in many subtle and not so subtle ways. When I was in high school in the 80’s, a white girl dating a black guy was a big no-no if you didn’t want trouble.
So, the idea that blacks should just “get over it” and shouldn’t have a chip on their shoulder is ludicrous. If I’d ever been in that situation, I gurantee you I would never trust whites in general and probably would have gone full on black panther style. I think the bottom line is that most whites are largely ignorant of black history and think that slavery and segregation are anceint history. Plus, most people never take the time to emphathize or try to think about what they would do in someone else’s shoes. Sad, but that’s where we are.
Reverend Wright said it, Barack Obama believes it and that settles it is pretty much the sentiment of the folks I am surrounded by on a daily basis.
It is wonderful to hear Huckabee take a rational and courageous stand on the issue.
Right now I would still vote for Obama over McCain. What I do know about McCain scares me more than what I don’t know about Obama.
Compared to blacks, many Jews would have a right to kill any gentile that looks at them the wrong way based on what they’ve been through. Holocaust versus Jim Crow (same time period)? Blacks had it easy by comparison. Yet aside from some prejudice, you don’t really see outright bigotry toward gentiles very common among Jews, many of whom are connected to groups that not only were second class citizens, but subjected to mass murders, rapes and pillages by their numerically superior neighbors.
Slavery was abolished over 140 years ago. Get over that excuse. How long do we have to keep hearing about that? Till it’s been 240 years since it was ended?
What is the excuse that most young blacks have for being racist? They grew up under affirmative action, with access to many of the same resources as whites growing up, never experienced segregation or officially sanctioned racism?
When is it enough?
Those of you who make excuses for them tend to forget that their racism is not limited to just whites, but extends to many other races, none of whom were party to the wrongs done to them, such as Asians and Latinos. Racism is wrong, no matter how much you suffered it. Everyone has a choice, and their life experiences don’t matter when it comes to holding them to the consequences of that choice.
There is far too much pity and empathy today.
(Just a bit of clarification, what I was asking is what excuse would most young blacks, like those 25 and under, have to be a racist today)
“(Just a bit of clarification, what I was asking is what excuse would most young blacks, like those 25 and under, have to be a racist today)”
When I was growing up in the South, the blacks fought tooth and nail to have unqualified black teachers. Now they have them, and they’re complaining that the public schools fail. Of course, they’re also against vouchers because it doesn’t spend the maximum amount of money possible. So they have that arguement going for them.
The US govt would NEVER create nor exascerbate diseases to the detriment of a minority population.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html
“…and a few decades of watching their families be destroyed by the drug war and ill-advised welfare programs…”
That’s ridiculous, Radley. I’ll gladly give you the Drug War point, but they’re not pissed off about welfare programs. If you tried to assert that to Wright, he’d laugh in your face.
#15
I have an investigative article in the new issue of Reason about a black family in Louisiana wrongfully convicted in 2006 of running a massive crack cocaine operation. Part of the charges against them stemmed from a series of incidents in the 1990s in which they were routinely harassed and set-up by racist local sheriff’s deputies who were pissed off that these black boys had the temerity to date white women (including one deputy’s daughter).
The town where this happened still has segregated Mardi Gras parades, a whites-only swimming pool (it’s a “private club,” they say), and is mostly segregated by neighborhood. When the local high school selected its first black homecoming queen in the mid 1990s, rioting broke out in the stands. The next year, the town asked David Duke to march in its annual (white) Mardi Gras parade.
This was the 1990s. I think it’s still a bit premature to tell black people to “get over it.”
Like I said Radley. Most just don’t get it.
I’m old enough to remember Jim Crow. I went to elementary school in a small West Texas town. The whites and hispanics went to the big school, the blacks were relegated to a one room schoolhouse. When a black kid reached high school level, he either had to drive 20 miles to the next town (with what car?) or drop out.
During the 1980’s, I practiced in an East Texas town on the coast with a lot of refineries. The unions there were what is called father-son unions, you had to have connections to get in. Needless to say there were no blacks in the union and no blacks in high paying blue-collar jobs like pipe-fitter or boiler-maker. The N-word flowed freely from the mouths of the educated elite in the town–and one lawyer I worked with proudly recounted his “adventures” consisting of driving with his buddies to the black side of town to throw bricks at black people.
A black bank VP from Houston once visited his branch bank and was taken (as executives routinely were) to one of the exclusive dining clubs. The person who took him was later called and threatened with expulsion for doing so.
The blacks exhibited their resentment and hatred towards the whites for this treatment in more subtle ways. For instance, it was ever apparent when one was standing in line at the Post Office.
To me, all this seems like yesterday.
In addition, I am a conservative Christian and I believe that Wright was correct with respect to many of his points. I believe that our government’s conduct with respect to the murder of innocents has been completely against God’s Law. I doubt that I concur with much of Rev. Wright’s theology (it appears to be liberation theology), but I certainly agree that those who engage in wanton and repeated acts of savagery, justified by “patriotism” have turned their face from God and are worshiping an idol, the State. That certainly deserves damnation.
Anyone who thinks they should “get over it” and “it was a long time ago” have been creating some nice revisionist history in their little brains.
Herein lies the problem. Which is that minorities, particularly blacks in the US, ARE pissed off about the way they’ve been treated. I understand it, you understand it, Mike Huckabee understands it, yet we’re all supposed to ignore it. Blacks are urged to “get over it”, and whites are urged to believe that blacks have “gotten over it”. It’s the proverbial elephant in the room, everyone knows it’s there, but no one says anything about it.
The whole racial situation is a catch 22, in order to ease tensions, attitudes much change, yet in order for attitudes to change, the tensions have to be eased. Sure, we’re making progress, but barring some kind of zany event like and alien invasion or something farfetched like that. I think it will take hundreds of years of work to remove racism from human societies, if it can even be done at all.
“Anyone who thinks they should ‘get over it’ and ‘it was a long time ago’ have been creating some nice revisionist history in their little brains.”
Anyone who takes this line should deal squarely with the particular strain of anti-Semitism in Black American culture now. If this argument is going to turn on history, then the Jews go to the head of the line by thousands of years.
“The blacks”, eh? All of them fought to have unqualified teachers?
If Wright had limited his theories to actual racism (real or perceived) we wouldn’t be having this conversation, but he didn’t. He blames the ills on black society on much more, like CIA conspiracies and jewish world domination. If people want to take an actual realistic view on the state of blacks in this country maybe they should start off with the question of why black immigrants do so much better than the native born black demographic. There are a lot of reasons black communities are struggling, and sometimes it IS racism, but blaming it on everything from UFO’s to jews is crazy.
Great post, Radley.
This whole discussion over whether Wright’s remarks were on-target or completely daffy sort of misses the point.
1) There’s no reason to assume Obama agreed w/ everything he said.
2) Given his background and his popularity, I rather suspect that Wright had lots of interesting and more, ah, restrained commentary on other issues, which is probably what Obama found compelling about him. In fact, I suspect it’s similar to our attraction to Obama–I don’t agree w/ him on everything, and dislike some of his ideas, but overall, he seems thoughtful, intelligent, and engaging.
3) People’s feelings change and fluctuate from day to day, and most intelligent adults have complicated views on patriotism and such. It’s a bit unfair to judge someone on a couple cherry-picked remarks, and it’s batshit crazy to judge somebody else for simply having observed those remarks in a respectful manner.
The other thing that I think bears repeating–and you did touch on it–is that black racism, while unfortunate, carries no real threat. The reason white racism is a problem, and why we’re so sensitive to it, is that whites actually have the numbers, money, and political power to do serious harm to those they’ve a racist grudge against (and historically, have done just that–witness the slave trade, segregation, Jim Crow, the more horrific responses to the civil rights movement, etc). The worst thing black racism seems to be responsible for is… making white people uncomfortable. And as you and Huckabee alluded to, African Americans actually have a reason to dislike and distrust whites.
So many (almost exclusively white) commentators on the right (and, alas, in the Hillary half of the left) act as though there’s no longer any historical context to racism, or that the historical atrocities motivated or sanctioned by racism were somehow a joint partnership between blacks and whites, each with equal responsibility, so that today, racist statements from either group are equally abhorrent. Thus the facile analogizing between, you know, Obama and the Klan (seriously, go read the comments at, say, Althouse). But it’s absurd, and it’s really something they should be called on more often.
As a Republican Christian, I am so pleased that you, Radley, a libertarian, can be appreciative of Huckabee’s position on Wright. As everyone knows, you libertarians have no compassion and expect competition to decide everything in society. You’d deny blacks anything they couldn’t win on their own.
Uhhh, you say that’s not what you believe? Maybe demeaning characterizations of libertarians are no more appropriate than those of Southern Baptists and other Christians.
Re #20,
It’s Louisiana. What did you expect? The only reason it’s still part of the United States is that if we released it back into the wild, it’d be such a banana republic that Mexico would look as cleanly governed as the Scandinavian countries.
Has anyone ever stopped to ask whether or not these reasons for being pissed off are valid?
See, no one really likes to talk about racism when it’s black racists attacking and murdering dark-skinned latinos and vice versa. Racism might as well not exist in polite white conversation when its “brown on brown” or “brown on asian.”
The real elephant in the room is that the only group in society that is expected to not be racist is whites. This is why I have largely lost all interest in racism as an issue. Virtually all talks about racism are about “whitey has done to X” when there is plenty of stuff to go around today.
Black on Korean violence? They’re just taking out pent up anger toward whitey on the next best thing!
Hispanic on black violence? They’re just enraged that whitey stole their land 160 some years ago.
This is why I have largely lost all interest in racism as an issue.
Oh, so that’s why.
Anyway, if you find that people won’t engage w/ you on that topic, it’s probably because neither you or they have any idea WTF you’re talking about.
But you do have an idea of WTF you are talking about. Oh please, Matt, educate me. I’m just begging to have my ignorance washed away with your wisdom and erudition…
It seems kind of odd for a preacher to be harping resentment when the primary tenet of his faith is “love your enemies” and “forgive those who wrong you.”
Tribalism really has no place in Christianity.
I thought Obama’s speech on race was right on. Sadley enough, the lines on this issue are so distinctly drawn (much like our political system) that if you support one, you must condemn the other. Or at the very least unwillingly participate as you are attacked in one way by the other side. Like it or not, racisim’s basic tenets are of a variety in which you have no choice, being born who you are. Whether Huckabee was sincere or just jumped on the media bandwagon, what he said would have been taken out of context by both sides had Obama not paved the way with his speech. And Obama was the ONLY one that could have done it.
I say this because as a child of a white mother and a black father, I am pretty certain that he was not accepted fully by either side growing up. For that reason he could listen to both sides of the argument (or more likely defend attacks from both whites and blacks) to think about it on a more personal level of what makes sense to him instead of buying into the hate rhetoric. Conversely he could reason against hateful, blanket-statements from whites or blacks and his defense more likely to be listened to as he was straddling that line. He was not just on one side, even if only because he was forced to by reluctance on both sides to fully accept him. Hate all white people?!!? But his mom and that part of his family are white. Black people are not intelligent?!? But he’s learned things from his father and that side of the family. Another example is Tiger woods brushing off the magazine noose cover while black sports columnists were screaming for heads because of the insult to the black athlete. I’m reasonably sure that Tiger did not really feel accepted by either side growing up for the same reason as Obama. Basically I believe he didn’t care because he learned long ago to view things on a more personal level because he had to. And besides, Tiger knew what people were really judging him on, his superior golf talent. Racist or not, you can not deny that and what a wonderful thing it is to base your identity on universally logical standard.
It’s my understanding that Obama was not religious(or at least with Wrights church/ideology) until his first charge in Chicago. He was a community organizer/activist dealing with a predominantly African American population. Church ties grew as he saw that as one of the best ways to reach the community he was serving. Hence his association with the nutjob Wright. Not defending Wright at all as I believe his rhetoric is one of the main contributing factors that perpetuates the racial divide in this country, but his organization did do good things for the community. Good things for the community that were the charge of a young Obama, so naturally a synergy existed between the two. Not by goals created through some shared identity, but by goals created by some shared societal obligations.
Through his ideas and speeches, I believe Obama is an intelligent and reasonable person. Like many, I do not agree with some of his policies. However, I fail to see him as a self-loathing, brainwashed, idiot puppet of a radical church as Wright’s attacks on white America is also indirectly targeted on Obama. So far the intelligence of Obama has not been in question by Democratic or Republican rivals. And self awareness is an intrinsic human trait, which may be one of the factors for the levels of racial divide in this country. One always thinks of life through their terms or eyes, fearing and questioning things not seen through that lens. Not right or wrong, just human nature. If Obama is intelligent and self aware, how can he be on just one side of the race debate?
What I do see is someone more capable of positioning himself outside the lines of the nasty issue of race in America. Someone capable of bringing up the real concerns of race and not scared to go off party in his views for fear of being considered an Uncle Tom or a white, bleeding-heart, liberal hippie. Someone we have to listen to as he is as impartial as it gets (and with this statement keep in mid that I believe most on the forefront of this issue are not impartial at all). What I also see is hope that we can now address the real problems of race in America through reasonable and productive dialogue. No small order any way you look at it. And if, just if, he can make some leeway into that future (and let’s face it, no one on the white or black side has even come close since MLK), gives me more confidence he can do it for other decisive issues in our country. Is he the right man for the presidency? Still thinking about that myself. But in my opinion, he’s the first candidate from any party that seems sincere in his charge to change a system where to win means the other has to lose. And that in itself is pretty impressive.
Okay.
1) Racism did not end w/ the civil war.
2) Resentments built over centuries of oppression are not undone in a single generation.
3) Likewise, the economic consequences of that injustice are not undone in a single generation either.
4) While there are no doubt some black people out there who practice racist violence against other minorities, or harbor racist resentments against them, the fact is only whites are currently in a position to impose any sort of institutional racism on others.
5) Whites also perpetrated the most heinous acts of racism in this country’s history. And as I pointed out in 4, they’re also the only ones capable of repeating those atrocities, which is why discussions of racism today tend to focus on whites.
Well, in the case of blacks in the U.S…. they are pretty damn valid. Several hundred years of slavery and oppression aren’t going to be forgotten about anytime soon.
On the flip side of that coin, whites in America aren’t going to forget it happened either. Therefore a lot of them don’t want to see blacks in a position where the can get revenge.
So the long and short of it is that racism exists, and it will continue to exist long after we’re dead and gone. Yes, it goes both ways, but the whites definitely have the better end of the deal. So if you’re white, better to keep your mouth shut and count your lucky stars that you’re on the winning side of the equation. The best we can do as a society is start the wheels of change turning for the better.
“The best we can do as a society is start the wheels of change turning for the better.”
For all those who keep saying this: A black person in this country with any sort of degree from any sort of diploma mill is basically guaranteed a good-paying govermnet job. Of course, highly-trained and highly-skilled blacks are as highly sought after in competetive fields as anyone else, so what else are we suppose to do?
I wouldn’t have a problem at all with increased social security or some kind of benefits program for blacks over, say, 50. But ironically those are the blacks who I find the most agreement with. For the northern white liberals (who I suspect is saying this), there’s actually plenty of blacks in the south who agree with me. They, even more than me, are tired of people blaming whites for their problems, which recently are caused more by nevermarried mothers and a victim mentality than some shenanigans in a bocephus town in Louisiana.
If anything has the prospect of bringing reasonable people to agreement, it’s this beautiful headline on Drudge: “THE PRESIDENT [Clinton] AND REV. WRIGHT… DEVELOPING…”
I don’t begrudge black folks the occasional indulgence in righteous anger–even obviously crazy, raving righteous anger.
After reading about the Tuskegee experiments, I wouldn’t put anything past anybody. It is a pretty sick world at times.
Yes!
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/photograph-of-bill-clinton-and-rev-wright-surfaces/
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=3482425
[...] to The Agitator for the [...]