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	<title>Comments on: More MADDness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 06:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-86919</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-86919</guid>
		<description>These interlocks are crap, I have had many false readings with them even without drinking, had one time where it gave me a fail, which means intoxicated, then 15 minutes later a pass....no alcohol, then a warning, which means over .05, so in 30 minutes time I went from intoxicated to sober to a little under the influence.  I called the place and they gave me some bullcrap excuse, another time I get a pass then 6 minutes later a warning...I was told oh well you didnt blow into it the right way....ok so where did the alcohol come from?????  Now I have to explain to my probation officer what happened and hope they dont throw me in jail, if they do I am taking someone to court, at the interlock place, they have no identification on their test samples for calibration, and oh cologne will set it off if you have it on your hands and touch the unit</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These interlocks are crap, I have had many false readings with them even without drinking, had one time where it gave me a fail, which means intoxicated, then 15 minutes later a pass&#8230;.no alcohol, then a warning, which means over .05, so in 30 minutes time I went from intoxicated to sober to a little under the influence.  I called the place and they gave me some bullcrap excuse, another time I get a pass then 6 minutes later a warning&#8230;I was told oh well you didnt blow into it the right way&#8230;.ok so where did the alcohol come from?????  Now I have to explain to my probation officer what happened and hope they dont throw me in jail, if they do I am taking someone to court, at the interlock place, they have no identification on their test samples for calibration, and oh cologne will set it off if you have it on your hands and touch the unit</p>
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		<title>By: Justthisguy</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-80014</link>
		<dc:creator>Justthisguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 04:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-80014</guid>
		<description>I believe that MADD is subsidized with Federal money. 

That's not the worst part, from my point of view. The "M" is the worst part. Which they share with the WCTU. 

(founded in Illinois, from which come both Hillary and Barack. I hate Illinois Nazis.)

I think that xx people don't (in general) want us xy people to drink because:

A. They can't handle the juice as well as we can (scientifically proven), and

B. When we've had a few, we might tell them  _exactly_  what we think of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that MADD is subsidized with Federal money. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the worst part, from my point of view. The &#8220;M&#8221; is the worst part. Which they share with the WCTU. </p>
<p>(founded in Illinois, from which come both Hillary and Barack. I hate Illinois Nazis.)</p>
<p>I think that xx people don&#8217;t (in general) want us xy people to drink because:</p>
<p>A. They can&#8217;t handle the juice as well as we can (scientifically proven), and</p>
<p>B. When we&#8217;ve had a few, we might tell them  _exactly_  what we think of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Collins</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79933</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Collins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79933</guid>
		<description>This is one of the reasons that I don't put any faith in polls or statistical studies.  It is too easy to manipulate the results.  I took a Statistics class a few years ago and the Professor gave the following example.

Suppose your polling firm was hired to take a poll on which political party Democrat or Republican was most favored in a community.  Where would you place your poll takers and when would you gather your information?  If you wanted an impartial poll you would gather your samples at varied locations and at various times of day.  

Say you were hired by an affliliate of the Democratic Party and if they didn't like your results you might not be hired to do any more polls.  Where would you place your poll takers and when would you gather your information?  You might try malls and grocery stores from 9AM to 11AM and 2PM and 4PM.  You might also try to take your poll at the beginning of the month.  The reasoning is that statistically people who work unconventional hours and people on Social Security tend to favor the Democrats.  If you were hired by a Republican affiliate you would try to gather your sample in the evenings or in the middle of the day, because statistically people who work conventional hours tend toward the Republican point of view.

In the situations mentioned above it is easy to skew the results in the desired direction.  MADD has taken it one step further.  The have influenced the government agency responsible for gathering this information into changing the information collected to benefit MADD.  This is the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

What used to be a fatality caused by alcohol is now an alcohol related incident.  It used to be that the driver causing the fatality had to be legally intoxicated for it to be counted.  Now it is if anybody involved in the accident has a measurable amount of alcohol in their system.  If someone has two beers and WALKS out in front of you and you break their leg, it is counted.  If you are a completely sober designated driver and a deer runs out in front of you, it is an alcohol related incident because your passengers were drinking. 

In the end, as usual it all comes down to money.  MADD went from being a true grass roots organization to a multi million dollar lobbying business.  Don't let the non-profit bit fool you.  MADD's top people are pulling down six figure salaries with perks and benefits.  NHTSA like any other government agency has to supposedly show a need to get their share of the Federal budget and is a willing participant in skewing the statistics to make the problem look worse than it is.  Let's not forget the insurance companies who make contributions to MADD and donate things like flashlights with built in alcohol sensors and breathalyzers to local police departments and then use these inflated statistics to justify higher premiums on auto insurance.  Last but not least let's not forget local police departments who apply to MADD and NHTSA for grants to fund their DUI roadblocks.  (There is a local town that only has two officers patrolling during the week, but can field fifteen officers on Friday and Saturday nights for their checkpoints. The majority of these are part time officers who are retired augumenting their income.  These are the people who check that little box on the accident report marked "alcohol related".  I have it from a good source that there are seminars on creative "grant proposal writing" availible from some police unions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of the reasons that I don&#8217;t put any faith in polls or statistical studies.  It is too easy to manipulate the results.  I took a Statistics class a few years ago and the Professor gave the following example.</p>
<p>Suppose your polling firm was hired to take a poll on which political party Democrat or Republican was most favored in a community.  Where would you place your poll takers and when would you gather your information?  If you wanted an impartial poll you would gather your samples at varied locations and at various times of day.  </p>
<p>Say you were hired by an affliliate of the Democratic Party and if they didn&#8217;t like your results you might not be hired to do any more polls.  Where would you place your poll takers and when would you gather your information?  You might try malls and grocery stores from 9AM to 11AM and 2PM and 4PM.  You might also try to take your poll at the beginning of the month.  The reasoning is that statistically people who work unconventional hours and people on Social Security tend to favor the Democrats.  If you were hired by a Republican affiliate you would try to gather your sample in the evenings or in the middle of the day, because statistically people who work conventional hours tend toward the Republican point of view.</p>
<p>In the situations mentioned above it is easy to skew the results in the desired direction.  MADD has taken it one step further.  The have influenced the government agency responsible for gathering this information into changing the information collected to benefit MADD.  This is the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)</p>
<p>What used to be a fatality caused by alcohol is now an alcohol related incident.  It used to be that the driver causing the fatality had to be legally intoxicated for it to be counted.  Now it is if anybody involved in the accident has a measurable amount of alcohol in their system.  If someone has two beers and WALKS out in front of you and you break their leg, it is counted.  If you are a completely sober designated driver and a deer runs out in front of you, it is an alcohol related incident because your passengers were drinking. </p>
<p>In the end, as usual it all comes down to money.  MADD went from being a true grass roots organization to a multi million dollar lobbying business.  Don&#8217;t let the non-profit bit fool you.  MADD&#8217;s top people are pulling down six figure salaries with perks and benefits.  NHTSA like any other government agency has to supposedly show a need to get their share of the Federal budget and is a willing participant in skewing the statistics to make the problem look worse than it is.  Let&#8217;s not forget the insurance companies who make contributions to MADD and donate things like flashlights with built in alcohol sensors and breathalyzers to local police departments and then use these inflated statistics to justify higher premiums on auto insurance.  Last but not least let&#8217;s not forget local police departments who apply to MADD and NHTSA for grants to fund their DUI roadblocks.  (There is a local town that only has two officers patrolling during the week, but can field fifteen officers on Friday and Saturday nights for their checkpoints. The majority of these are part time officers who are retired augumenting their income.  These are the people who check that little box on the accident report marked &#8220;alcohol related&#8221;.  I have it from a good source that there are seminars on creative &#8220;grant proposal writing&#8221; availible from some police unions.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Pack</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79905</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79905</guid>
		<description>Jerry,the bar is already set low for these devises.Look at BAC machines use in  dui.They have a large margin of error and yet are taken as the truth in court.In many places you cannot dispute their finding.When you take harm out of the law and need to show guilt with out a victim you must shrink rights and expand police power to get a conviction.With out these machines the police would have to prove harm or danger.As you have stated most dui's do not fall in this group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jerry,the bar is already set low for these devises.Look at BAC machines use in  dui.They have a large margin of error and yet are taken as the truth in court.In many places you cannot dispute their finding.When you take harm out of the law and need to show guilt with out a victim you must shrink rights and expand police power to get a conviction.With out these machines the police would have to prove harm or danger.As you have stated most dui&#8217;s do not fall in this group.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79904</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79904</guid>
		<description>Be very afraid of MADD, they are a prohobitionist organization, no matter what they say, and they misuse statistics (in ways that most don't recognize) to further their mis-guided agenda to outlaw anyone from having a drink and getting behind the wheel, regardless if they are actually a threat.

Currently 1.5 million people are arrested for DUI's every year, with the majority not hurting a single person.  This is one of the biggest problems with an organization such as MADD, they treat social drinkers like the hardcore drinkers (who cause the majority of alcohol-related (another crappy term) deaths.   Makes a nice little circular funding arrangement.  Arrest more people on the fringe, means that we need more cops and money, now you can arrest more, and the problem is even more, hire more and need more money, and on, and on it goes.  Before long everyone will have a DUI.

From what I know of the interlock things, is that they will drop down and randomly want to test your breath, now I know every machine is infallible (sarcasm) and always works 100% (never any errors).  So you're driving down the road, the machine signals that you need to blow into this thing, you do and it doesn't register or says that you have had alchol.  You have a short amount of time to pull over or the car will turn off.  I live in Northern VA, could you imagine if this happened on the belt-way at rush hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Be very afraid of MADD, they are a prohobitionist organization, no matter what they say, and they misuse statistics (in ways that most don&#8217;t recognize) to further their mis-guided agenda to outlaw anyone from having a drink and getting behind the wheel, regardless if they are actually a threat.</p>
<p>Currently 1.5 million people are arrested for DUI&#8217;s every year, with the majority not hurting a single person.  This is one of the biggest problems with an organization such as MADD, they treat social drinkers like the hardcore drinkers (who cause the majority of alcohol-related (another crappy term) deaths.   Makes a nice little circular funding arrangement.  Arrest more people on the fringe, means that we need more cops and money, now you can arrest more, and the problem is even more, hire more and need more money, and on, and on it goes.  Before long everyone will have a DUI.</p>
<p>From what I know of the interlock things, is that they will drop down and randomly want to test your breath, now I know every machine is infallible (sarcasm) and always works 100% (never any errors).  So you&#8217;re driving down the road, the machine signals that you need to blow into this thing, you do and it doesn&#8217;t register or says that you have had alchol.  You have a short amount of time to pull over or the car will turn off.  I live in Northern VA, could you imagine if this happened on the belt-way at rush hour.</p>
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		<title>By: Not That David</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79898</link>
		<dc:creator>Not That David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79898</guid>
		<description>Blue: Well, eventually they're going to push just as hard for interlocks in &lt;I&gt;all&lt;/I&gt; cars, so then it won't be a stigma anymore!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blue: Well, eventually they&#8217;re going to push just as hard for interlocks in <i>all</i> cars, so then it won&#8217;t be a stigma anymore!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79888</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79888</guid>
		<description>It looks like they have an advertisement for the interlocks, disguised as a statistical analysis.  How low! If they wanted to push the interlocks, they should do a national campaign, and not throw us ONDCP type of propaganda!  They are not acting real smart, here!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like they have an advertisement for the interlocks, disguised as a statistical analysis.  How low! If they wanted to push the interlocks, they should do a national campaign, and not throw us ONDCP type of propaganda!  They are not acting real smart, here!</p>
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		<title>By: Blue</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79887</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79887</guid>
		<description>Oh, I forgot to add: New York added an interlock law an experienced a 4.8% drop. Wisconsin did nothing and the drop was 5.3%. 

As long as we're fudging the numbers: I say that if a 30% of fatal accidents were as a result of alcohol, I can also say that you're more likely to be killed by a sober driver than a drunk one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I forgot to add: New York added an interlock law an experienced a 4.8% drop. Wisconsin did nothing and the drop was 5.3%. </p>
<p>As long as we&#8217;re fudging the numbers: I say that if a 30% of fatal accidents were as a result of alcohol, I can also say that you&#8217;re more likely to be killed by a sober driver than a drunk one.</p>
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		<title>By: Blue</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79885</link>
		<dc:creator>Blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79885</guid>
		<description>This is my big issue with DUI law. A driver has a has a couple of beers, get stopped at a DUI checkpoint. The officer gives him a field sobriety test, he passes, but blows 0.081. Now he has an interlock on his car. Lets say the guy happened to be in sales or real estate. How the crap is he supposed to explain to his clients for the rest of his career. At the very least it would be an embarrassment. If it was a company car he'd surely get fired. Unless he's self-employed he'd probably loose his job for harming no one, and putting absolutely no one in danger.

When are we going to stop giving violent criminals a revolving door so that we can afford to lock up non-violent societal and economic contributors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my big issue with DUI law. A driver has a has a couple of beers, get stopped at a DUI checkpoint. The officer gives him a field sobriety test, he passes, but blows 0.081. Now he has an interlock on his car. Lets say the guy happened to be in sales or real estate. How the crap is he supposed to explain to his clients for the rest of his career. At the very least it would be an embarrassment. If it was a company car he&#8217;d surely get fired. Unless he&#8217;s self-employed he&#8217;d probably loose his job for harming no one, and putting absolutely no one in danger.</p>
<p>When are we going to stop giving violent criminals a revolving door so that we can afford to lock up non-violent societal and economic contributors?</p>
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		<title>By: andyinsdca</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79872</link>
		<dc:creator>andyinsdca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79872</guid>
		<description>The real question is....

Are the companies that make the interlocks making fat donations to MADD (like they were the UT legislator that brought the law up in the first place)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question is&#8230;.</p>
<p>Are the companies that make the interlocks making fat donations to MADD (like they were the UT legislator that brought the law up in the first place)?</p>
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		<title>By: primus</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79871</link>
		<dc:creator>primus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79871</guid>
		<description>MADD is just prohibitionists in disguise</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MADD is just prohibitionists in disguise</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Pack</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79867</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Pack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/03/14/more-maddness-2/#comment-79867</guid>
		<description>Well we have already lost 4th and 5th amendment  rights in these cases.Punishment starts when you are charged.In some areas,if you refuse to talk or blow the judges throw the book at you.Add the fact of the cost to defend yourself and many innocent people take a plea just to stop the bleeding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well we have already lost 4th and 5th amendment  rights in these cases.Punishment starts when you are charged.In some areas,if you refuse to talk or blow the judges throw the book at you.Add the fact of the cost to defend yourself and many innocent people take a plea just to stop the bleeding.</p>
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