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	<title>Comments on: Ebert Says Frederick &#8220;Potentially a Danger to Society.&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: Lloyd Flack</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76551</link>
		<dc:creator>Lloyd Flack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76551</guid>
		<description>I can think of two reasons why the fallen officer&#039;s family might be not saying anything and suspect that both of them apply.

The first is that they simply would prefer to grieve in private.

The second is that they are probably angry at the Chesapeake police department. Shivers died in a raid that was the result of false information. He died for nothing. I can see how his family might be blaming the police department for this stuff up. They did not check out the information properly and as a result carried out an unnecessary and highly dangerous raid. To make matters worse their standard operating procedures agravated the danger in this case.

They seek surprise, in part for their safety. If they raid an innocent person surprise endangers the police.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can think of two reasons why the fallen officer&#8217;s family might be not saying anything and suspect that both of them apply.</p>
<p>The first is that they simply would prefer to grieve in private.</p>
<p>The second is that they are probably angry at the Chesapeake police department. Shivers died in a raid that was the result of false information. He died for nothing. I can see how his family might be blaming the police department for this stuff up. They did not check out the information properly and as a result carried out an unnecessary and highly dangerous raid. To make matters worse their standard operating procedures agravated the danger in this case.</p>
<p>They seek surprise, in part for their safety. If they raid an innocent person surprise endangers the police.</p>
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		<title>By: SusanK</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76368</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Feb 2008 08:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76368</guid>
		<description>Thanks Frank.  I&#039;m very, very surprised that the prosecution isn&#039;t trotting the fallen officer&#039;s family out to support his position.  Having dealt with high-profile prosecutions, I don&#039;t even know what to say about one without a grieving family in front of the press every moment....  This one is new to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Frank.  I&#8217;m very, very surprised that the prosecution isn&#8217;t trotting the fallen officer&#8217;s family out to support his position.  Having dealt with high-profile prosecutions, I don&#8217;t even know what to say about one without a grieving family in front of the press every moment&#8230;.  This one is new to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76326</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 22:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76326</guid>
		<description>If Frederick goes to prison-for-lifer over this trumped-up horseshit, we&#039;ve arrived at a clear turning point in America where, if you ever discover that the home invader you&#039;ve just shot is actually a cop -- you might as well just keep firing until you&#039;re out of ammunition, because your life is over and you might as well take as many of them with you as you can. (And people? Heads shot, if you want them to count.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Frederick goes to prison-for-lifer over this trumped-up horseshit, we&#8217;ve arrived at a clear turning point in America where, if you ever discover that the home invader you&#8217;ve just shot is actually a cop &#8212; you might as well just keep firing until you&#8217;re out of ammunition, because your life is over and you might as well take as many of them with you as you can. (And people? Heads shot, if you want them to count.)</p>
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		<title>By: TC</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76267</link>
		<dc:creator>TC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:13:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76267</guid>
		<description>Well check it out, a prosecutor without ties, a judge that should be golfing, and what is in the brew?

Think johnny Cash.... I  hear that train a commin, a coming down the tracks.......

Equates to untouchables by the citizens of VA, for this prescribed crime.  (though the cops are the real perps).  or just stooges for the CI!  

I&#039;m almost amazed they did not call up Nifong for the task!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well check it out, a prosecutor without ties, a judge that should be golfing, and what is in the brew?</p>
<p>Think johnny Cash&#8230;. I  hear that train a commin, a coming down the tracks&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>Equates to untouchables by the citizens of VA, for this prescribed crime.  (though the cops are the real perps).  or just stooges for the CI!  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m almost amazed they did not call up Nifong for the task!</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76262</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:44:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76262</guid>
		<description>I believe that the officer&#039;s family realizes that this case isn&#039;t black and white.  Maybe even a turning point in their support of the drugged war.

It is quite obvious that the police failed to do their jobs in a number of ways, due diligence being at the top of the list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that the officer&#8217;s family realizes that this case isn&#8217;t black and white.  Maybe even a turning point in their support of the drugged war.</p>
<p>It is quite obvious that the police failed to do their jobs in a number of ways, due diligence being at the top of the list.</p>
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		<title>By: SusanK</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76199</link>
		<dc:creator>SusanK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 05:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76199</guid>
		<description>At least the local media appears to be focusing on Ryan&#039;s family and his side of the story.  It&#039;s a good sign when you don&#039;t see the officer&#039;s family hollering for &quot;justice&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least the local media appears to be focusing on Ryan&#8217;s family and his side of the story.  It&#8217;s a good sign when you don&#8217;t see the officer&#8217;s family hollering for &#8220;justice&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: jaimito</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76165</link>
		<dc:creator>jaimito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76165</guid>
		<description>meh... the marks from where they hit the door with the battering ram will match up perfectly with the one that&#039;s covered in blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>meh&#8230; the marks from where they hit the door with the battering ram will match up perfectly with the one that&#8217;s covered in blood.</p>
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		<title>By: FP</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76149</link>
		<dc:creator>FP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76149</guid>
		<description>If he gets aquitted and I don&#039;t think thats a sure thing at all at this point, he&#039;d be wise to sell his house and move, out of state preferrably or at least 1-3 counties away. The cops will have a grudge against him for a long long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If he gets aquitted and I don&#8217;t think thats a sure thing at all at this point, he&#8217;d be wise to sell his house and move, out of state preferrably or at least 1-3 counties away. The cops will have a grudge against him for a long long time.</p>
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		<title>By: atom</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76144</link>
		<dc:creator>atom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76144</guid>
		<description>poor, poor, ryan. my heart goes out to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>poor, poor, ryan. my heart goes out to you.</p>
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		<title>By: UCrawford</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76139</link>
		<dc:creator>UCrawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76139</guid>
		<description>Matt,

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’ve never heard this and was curious as to the reasoning behind it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s to establish that the person was a threat to justify the use of deadly force.  It&#039;s also a very bad idea because if you get caught tampering with the body it&#039;s very reasonable for the police to assume that you were attempting to tamper with evidence because you actually did something wrong.  If you&#039;re a law-abiding citizen who shoots an intruder on your property your best bet is to be honest about the incident.

I believe that is what Mr. Frederick has done and I suspect it will work in his favor in this case.  Although judging by the police reaction so far, I suspect that it will set him up for future harassment because the cops will (wrongly) see persecuting him as standing up for one of their own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<blockquote><p>I’ve never heard this and was curious as to the reasoning behind it.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s to establish that the person was a threat to justify the use of deadly force.  It&#8217;s also a very bad idea because if you get caught tampering with the body it&#8217;s very reasonable for the police to assume that you were attempting to tamper with evidence because you actually did something wrong.  If you&#8217;re a law-abiding citizen who shoots an intruder on your property your best bet is to be honest about the incident.</p>
<p>I believe that is what Mr. Frederick has done and I suspect it will work in his favor in this case.  Although judging by the police reaction so far, I suspect that it will set him up for future harassment because the cops will (wrongly) see persecuting him as standing up for one of their own.</p>
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		<title>By: Laughingdog</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76137</link>
		<dc:creator>Laughingdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76137</guid>
		<description>In some states, you can&#039;t shoot to defend yourself unless they&#039;re actually inside your house.  However, tampering with evidence by dragging someone inside is viewed in any court as an automatic admission of guilt.  Anyone that drags a body anywhere is probably going to be in jail for a really long time.

As far as Ryan Frederick goes, this would be reasonable if they were trying manslaughter charges.  If the officer really was completely outside of the home, and hadn&#039;t actually penetrated the house in any way, Ryan would have a hard time justifying using his firearm with the way the law is in Virginia.  If the officer was inside the house in any way, Ryan should be sitting at home right now.  Neither of those situations justifies trying to seek the death penalty, or even 1st degree murder.

Based on what little we know, Ryan Frederick might belong in jail.  But definitely not for anything more than a few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In some states, you can&#8217;t shoot to defend yourself unless they&#8217;re actually inside your house.  However, tampering with evidence by dragging someone inside is viewed in any court as an automatic admission of guilt.  Anyone that drags a body anywhere is probably going to be in jail for a really long time.</p>
<p>As far as Ryan Frederick goes, this would be reasonable if they were trying manslaughter charges.  If the officer really was completely outside of the home, and hadn&#8217;t actually penetrated the house in any way, Ryan would have a hard time justifying using his firearm with the way the law is in Virginia.  If the officer was inside the house in any way, Ryan should be sitting at home right now.  Neither of those situations justifies trying to seek the death penalty, or even 1st degree murder.</p>
<p>Based on what little we know, Ryan Frederick might belong in jail.  But definitely not for anything more than a few years.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76135</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76135</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’ve always heard that if you shoot a burglar on the front lawn drag them inside.&quot;

I&#039;ve never heard this and was curious as to the reasoning behind it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’ve always heard that if you shoot a burglar on the front lawn drag them inside.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never heard this and was curious as to the reasoning behind it.</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76134</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76134</guid>
		<description>I agree with the commenter yesterday, here or on reason.com, that said... when the prosecutor has to say that Shivers was &quot;really in the front yard&quot; that &quot;really&quot; says something about how far their stretching it. Might has well have said.. &quot;Most of his body was through the door, but the shoelaces from his jackboots was dragging behind him down the front steps.&quot; 
 
My thoughts on the matter... If the police officer was outside, on the lawn and Fredrick shot through the front door, how the FUCK did he knowingly hit a police officer? Its a wonder he hit anything at all.

I&#039;ve always heard that if you shoot a burglar on the front lawn drag them inside. My guess is the police did the opposite here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the commenter yesterday, here or on reason.com, that said&#8230; when the prosecutor has to say that Shivers was &#8220;really in the front yard&#8221; that &#8220;really&#8221; says something about how far their stretching it. Might has well have said.. &#8220;Most of his body was through the door, but the shoelaces from his jackboots was dragging behind him down the front steps.&#8221; </p>
<p>My thoughts on the matter&#8230; If the police officer was outside, on the lawn and Fredrick shot through the front door, how the FUCK did he knowingly hit a police officer? Its a wonder he hit anything at all.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always heard that if you shoot a burglar on the front lawn drag them inside. My guess is the police did the opposite here.</p>
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		<title>By: UCrawford</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/comment-page-1/#comment-76131</link>
		<dc:creator>UCrawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 19:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theagitator.com/2008/02/22/ebert-says-frederick-potentially-a-danger-to-society/#comment-76131</guid>
		<description>According to the video, Ebert&#039;s trying to upgrade the charge from 1st degree murder to capital murder, which the report said would require the prosecution to prove that Frederick knew he was shooting at police.  Good luck with that when the prosecutor can&#039;t even come up with a convincing story as to where Det. Shivers was actually standing when he was shot.

I predict that Frederick actually gets acquitted on these charges, then finds himself tailed and harassed by the Chesapeake police until they can find some excuse to throw him in jail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to the video, Ebert&#8217;s trying to upgrade the charge from 1st degree murder to capital murder, which the report said would require the prosecution to prove that Frederick knew he was shooting at police.  Good luck with that when the prosecutor can&#8217;t even come up with a convincing story as to where Det. Shivers was actually standing when he was shot.</p>
<p>I predict that Frederick actually gets acquitted on these charges, then finds himself tailed and harassed by the Chesapeake police until they can find some excuse to throw him in jail.</p>
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