TheAgitator.com
Rallying Around Ryan Frederick
Thursday, February 7th, 2008
The Fox affiliate in Hampton Roads reports:
With their signatures, residents are voicing their belief the accused killer, Ryan Frederick, was in the right when he fired that gun as police officers were trying to come through his front door to serve a drug search warrant.”It left me where I couldn’t sleep,” said Frederick’s neighbor, Sandra Brooks.Brooks says she will never forget the terror she heard that night in the voices of the officers.”The panic in their voices, I have a hard time talking about it, I start to tear up, but the panic in their voices as they screamed ‘we need CPR, where arethe medics?’”Brooks says her heart goes out to Detective Shivers’ family and fellow officers, but she also agrees with the people signing the poster in support of Frederick.”I believe he was sincere that he did not know what was going on when the officers were coming into the house,” said Brooks.
The article also quotes an attorney who says Frederick may be guilty if he was indiscriminately firing through the door. I’ll have to do a bit of research into the specifics of Virginia’s self-defense law. We also still don’t know if Shivers was shot through the door, or after he had made his way through the doorway to Frederick’s home. But if someone’s attempting to break down your door, I would think you could reasonably assume they present an immediate threat to your safety. Frederick’s case probably gets a lot stronger if the police knew he’d been burglarized a few days prior. That would certainly go to his state of mind, and probably should have factored in the way they decided to apprehend him.In any case, it’s good to see at least part of the community is rallying behind him. I’ve seen more and more acquaintances, co-workers, and friends sticking up for him on various message boards, too. It would be an absolute travesty if this guy were to get life, or worse.There’s also now a MySpace page in support of Frederick. I received an email this morning saying there may soon be a legal defense fund, too.
It’s a horrible situation, but it warms my heart to see public support for Frederick from his neighbors and others. To risk possible retaliation for supporting a “cop killer” is a brave act. I know you will, but please let us know if the legal defense fund materializes.
All of this is (relatively) great news for Frederick of course, but if the cops react in typical circle-the-wagons-and-CYA mode, it will only enrage them further to see the public supporting him (Frederick). This might not bode well for those that openly support him or contribute to his legal defense fund. We’ve all read the stories here of police intimidation and harassment of people that dare cross them in any way, no matter how minor, and with a dead cop, I’m sure they consider this quite far from minor.
It’s just amazing that time after time in incidents like this, there’s no internal reflection or analysis of the policies and/or procedures that ended with the injury or death of innocent people or police. Isn’t one definition of insanity that you keep doing the same thing over and over but expect different results?
Then again, the “war on (some) drugs” should probably be considered the textbook definition of insanity.
I think once the battering ram started hitting the door, his fire was anything but indiscriminate.
Scott: “It’s just amazing that time after time in incidents like this, there’s no internal reflection or analysis of the policies and/or procedures that ended with the injury or death of innocent people or police.”
But if it were the crash of a space craft with the death of seven crew members they would have put the entire program on hold for years pending a comprehensive analysis of the program followed by published report, procedural improvements, policy changes, and exceedingly close public and media scrutiny. No question would have been laughed off, including the very foundation of the project and even the need for it’s existence.
However, the ocassional loss of an innocent citizen or cop on the beat in the war on drugs warrants little more than a footnote in the news, much less an analysis of the causes or whether the loss of life is worth it. Does a lost or destroyed life even count if it’s not a celebrity these days?
NASA should change its name to “The War on Space”.
Free Ryan Frederick!
There will be reflection and analysis among law enforcement when Ryan walks a free man - recommendations to change the laws so that the next time somebody shoots a police offer regardless of the situation, they won’t get off.
I have to echo what others have said about Ryan’s neighbors rallying to his defense. Nice to know there are people that understand the impossible position citizens find themselves in due to these these dynamic entry raids, er, search warrants executed by police.
Zeb… The War on Space…. good one… LOL
The lamest excuse EVER in the history of mankind - not even a scintilla as plausibly believable as “my dog ate it” is “I was only doing my job.” Lame, lame, LAME. I don’t use it, or buy it. Ever. Period.
Feel free to suspend your sense of sympathy here folks.
Bot, that is the most depressing thing I have read all week. Mainly because of all the things that could happen it seems to be, far and away, the most likely to actually come to pass.
If you and Bill attempt to rob a gas station and Bill is killed by the clerk, you can be tried for murder in the first degree, even if you stay outside as lookout. This is because you planned the illegal action that lead to the death.
Remember, insane Charley Mansion never went to Sharon Tate’s house.
Now my question is since the police went on the order of a judge, because of (false) witness from an informant (did they even attempt to verify), and a policeman was killed should not all the true perpetrators (informant, police, judge) be the defendants and not the innocent home owner?
Radley: An interesting contrast in approach.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/02/06/bc-rebuke.html
Bot:
“Feel free to suspend your sense of sympathy here folks.”
Hmm, Det. Shivers leaves behind a widow and three children. A neighbor has nightmares because she listened and watched while Det. Shivers died in pain and terror. There are undoubtedly many more people not mentioned in the news who have been traumatized by Det. Shivers’ death. Of course I sympathize with these people. So should we all.
I think there’s a good chance that charges will either be dropped, or Ryan will be acquitted. At least that’s what my optimistic side tells me — the pessimist side tells me he might get the Mitchell Johnson treatment.
Mitchell Johnson was the 13 year old shooter in the 1995 school massacre in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Because he was a juvenile, he was released at the age of 21, with a clean record. He wasn’t even barred from owning guns. And then he was caught with a misdemeanor amount of marijuana, while legally transporting two firearms. Just last month, he was convicted in federal court for possessing firearms “while addicted to, or an unlawful user of, marijuana”. He faces 10 years in federal prison.
The most incredible fact which bears on this, is that the cops were looking for a marijuana grow in the detached garage, not the house. Surely the correct approach would have been to have several cops secure the perimeter of the garage, then one ring the doorbell, and ask this citizen if he minds showing us what is in the garage? When he says “Sure,” and opens it up, and shows his Japanese maples, and explains what he is doing, then they can all have a good laugh, and go put the burglar away for a long time. Surely that would have been policing. What happened was a military operation carried out on the home of an innocent civilian, in the dead of night, based on the word of a known criminal and nothing else. Zappa said the most common element in the universe is stupidity. QED.
Even if Ryan is acquitted, the local police will make his life and the lives of his loved ones miserable until he gets out of town. He will never be left alone, and the police will be looking for the slightest, flimsiest excuse to blow him away. That, or death by the thousand cuts of trumped up traffic offenses, violations of building codes (always a favorite), or hanging around his place of work.
Either way, Ryan loses.
Mr. Frederick should claim that he thought Det. Shivers was betting on football games.
I hear that will get you off-the-hook in Virginia.
‘we need CPR, where are
the medics?’”
The medics? Our police forces have become the ulimate first person shooter games, designed more for the adrenaline rush of washed out high school jocks then for serious law enforcement issues.
A friend of mine sent me this e-mail making a good point..
Between the Chesapeake Police and the Va Beach police I don’t know which ones are MORE out of control.
They NEED to give each cop a class on the Constitution before they send ex-military commandos into the street where our children live and play.
to put it simply, after a tour in Iraq, a man or woman comes home to a cop job, mere MONTHS after blowing peoples heads off. There needs to be a ban on ex-miltary personnel being able to join the ranks (at least for a specified period of time)of the police because WE ARE NOT TERRORISTS/AL QUEDA. We are Americans. I wonder if the cops in Chesapeake think that trading a nine-year officer’s life for a “nick-bag” was worth it. Oh wait they said it was.
It’s the legal assumption in Texas (about non-LEO criminals) because, er, if the guest weren’t a threat to you then you’d let them in.
Regardless of the legal definition, it only makes sense that an intruder has non-altruistic intentions. I will shoot anyone who bursts (or tries to burst) into my house on that reasonable assumption. Why stay at the mercy of an intruder to find out if they’re a criminal, a cop, or a criminal cop?
G: “I wonder if the cops in Chesapeake think that trading a nine-year officer’s life for a “nick-bag” was worth it. Oh wait they said it was.”
I’ve noticed that about government. They always willing to sacrifice other people’s lives in the name of some pet crusade. What’s really galling is when they refer to it in some speech as if it’s some kind of collective price that we all must bear collectively.
No one pays the price quite like the dead guy lying in the street, whether it be Iraq or downtown USA.
MacK,
If you and Bill attempt to rob a gas station and Bill is killed by the clerk, you can be tried for murder in the first degree, even if you stay outside as lookout. This is because you planned the illegal action that lead to the death.
Yep. It’s called felony murder.
Remember, insane Charley Mansion never went to Sharon Tate’s house.
I’m not sure why we would need to remember Manson, because he wasn’t charged with felony murder. Manson was charged with actual murder (and conspiracy to commit murder) because he had ordered other people to kill someone. Manson isn’t even close to being an illustration of the felony murder doctrine.
Now my question is since the police went on the order of a judge, because of (false) witness from an informant (did they even attempt to verify), and a policeman was killed should not all the true perpetrators (informant, police, judge) be the defendants and not the innocent home owner?
No, because the felony murder rule generally requires that the death have occurred in the course of a felony. The judge didn’t commit a felony. The informant might have, but his act is too far removed in time and space from the scene for him to be guilty of a felony murder. And while the officers’ work appears shoddy, it doesn’t appear intentionally malicious in a way that would make their actions felonious.
LibertyPlease, how do you do that quote thing with the bar on the left? About the only HTML I know is for intallics and bold.
at the beginning and end without any spaces
Nevermind, the tags still work with spaces. Try again:
and without astericks
(blockquote) and (/blockquote)
but replace the parentheses with tags
greater than and less than tags.
Radley, please delete my failed responses!!!
Loren –
I’ve already covered the Felony Murder plot line. Clearly, the DA should go directly after Ryan’s mother (assuming she’s still alive, of course).
Thanks, LibertyPlease.
It’s good to see the neighborhood sticking up for him.
This case needs a national spotlight on it, hopefully pressure the idiots to release him!
And unfortunate, but he may have to move away from there, but his lawsuit should provide him some run money. It’s a biotch having to deal with a bunch of juvenile cops!
Bot, just so you know Ryans mother is dead. She died in 2003 and ryan sued in the case. His mother worked for the chesapeake sherifs department until she passed away. His mother died of a prescription drug overdose that was induced by her doctor giving her medications that could not be taken together. You can find articles about his mothers story online as well, because ryan sued the doctor for wrongful death and kinda won, the doctor Loxley took a lesser charge (plea agrement) to settle the case because the doctor was apparently doing it to others as well and was charged in many cases, so instead of being charged in each case he took a plea bargan and only got a few years. just thought you all should know that fact. That also helps you understand that if ryan knew it was police he never would have shot him, his mother worked for the department for years and he respected officers.
I fully support Ryan Frederick and I am willing to sign an online petition and sign on to any websites created to help him(and others) out.
All home invaders should be shot on sight! Especially since gangs like MS-13 are now suiting up to look like the jackboot ninja assassins that break in your door at midnight with flashbangs and silenced sub-machine guns.
This is America! Not Nazi Germany! What’s up with all the jackbooting!?!
And if you don’t believe me just ask Fred Hampton, Gordon Kahl, Vicki and Sammy Weaver, Donald Scott, Carl Drega, David Koresh, Frank Lobato, etc. (the list goes on and on and on…)
End the war on some terror(since the US is the major terror broker across the globe…)!
End the war on some drugs(especially since the CIA and the bankers have been making billions off narcotic trafficking…)!
The Amerikan Empire will fail and fall…
700 military bases in over 130 countries!?!
Didn’t anyone learn from the collapse of the Roman Empire?
So, when the dollar goes belly up…
And the jackboots and mercenaries don’t get their paychecks anymore…
Will they be kicking in doors at midnight looking for food for their families!?!
I think they should all be looking for different “jobs”…or safe places to hide(like Siberia)…
The time to tar and feather our public servants has come once again…
Go to http://www.myspace.com/ryan_frederick and go to the blurbs sect on the right,scroll down you will see a “donate” icon. Please go donate towards Ryans defense.And if you have a myspace account add him as your friend.But we need to get money raised up for him. His lawyer is not working for free. It is upwards of $50,000 plus. There is so much activity for Shivers Family but this is the only one for Ryan. Shivers Family is not hurting for money. I can gaurantee you that. He had awesome life insurance,plus God only knows how much money has been donated to his family. (I am not speaking ill of Shivers family but only stating the facts.) Ryan really needs your help. This is about WAY more than just Ryan though, It is about YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AS A CITIZEN. If we do not stand up and fight this with all of our might,we have forfeited our rights. Seriously! Oh yeah and about that girl scout falling into the door comment that was made. There is a HUGE difference between a 70 lb. child bumping into a door from a fall and a 200 lb man breaking a door down. I am sick of all these ignorant comments. Stand up a fight! The time is now.
the cops are hell bent on asset forfeiture, the constitution be damned. if someone starts busting down my doors, i’m not going to wait and see if they are “good guys”. regardless, they might shoot you anyway. our constitutional protections against such military style raids on our homes has been eroded by The War on Pot. all it takes is one idiot snitch to make up some bullshit and the cops attack with body armor and fully auto weapons. america has turned into a police state and no one is safe. fuck the cops, fuck the congress, fuck the supreme court, fuck the prosecutors, fuck the judges, fuck the president. REVOLUTION NOW!
Sad situation all around. I only hope that Ryan doesn’t get a tainted jury.
Thoughts and prayers go out to the Shivers family.
I had my door kicked in several times in the early 70’s ,cops using the no knock warrant.Believe me when you door comes flying off it’s hinges in the middle of the night it’s something you will never forget.In 1972 the cops (Norfolk) kicked in the door of and elderly couple the lady fired one round through the bedroom door killing Det. Kit Hurst.Guest what? They raided the wrong house.Oh, by the way they raided my house for Pot ,none found
I really feel for Ryan.How was he to know who was at his door.He was sound asleep when the Cop anounced himself,”if he did at all’,all Ryan heard was someone comming in his door.Of course all the cops are going to stick togeather and say he anounced himself.The only one who knows if he did or not is dead.I really feel sorry for Ryan,he is going against the whole police dept.I just wish I could do something to help him.All we out here can do is try to get him the best lawyer possible,and from out of town.I would not trust a local lawyer,they are all in this togeather,and a local lawyer would not want to wiin.He would be a black sheep around here.I hope the people that are helping him think of this.I myself cannot see him gettin convicted if he has the right lawyer.Lets all pitch in and get him a lawyer. Tom
yes Ryan Frederick is a killer, does that mean its wrong. NO!!!! i, who doesnt even like guns, would do the exact same if I were in his position. I dont blame him, and yes he did kill somebody, making it a capitol crime, WHAT MORONS. yes it was a cop he killed, should that make a different? if it wasnt announced that police were present, but a door was being broke down, makes a perfect self defense plea in my book.
I DONT EVEN KNOW YOU RYAN, BUT I STAND BEHIND YOU HERE.
ALL THE WAY FROM RHODE ISLAND!!!!
HOPEFULLY THIS STORY WILL GO NATIONWIDE, IM CERTAINLY SENDING AN EMIAL TO MY LOCAL MEDIA ABOUT IT!
Frederick is not a killer, don’t concede that. He acted in self defense. You wouldn’t call a returning Marine a killer. You wouldn’t call a veteran officer a killer. Frederick has the exact same rights as the officer he mistakenly downed.
The Cheseapeake PD needs to review their no-knock warrant policy to avoid needless and senseless confrontation.
there is no war on drugs. what we have is a never ending skirmish fueled by civil asset forfeiture dollars. as long as the money keeps coming in, the cops will keep sacrificing “their own”.
This same thing happened to Billy Urquiza in Texas, only he was shot several times, then charged with attempted capital murder, which dropped to Aggraved assault on a police officer. He was convicted and sentenced to five years. He is an innocent man. My heart goes out to Ryan. Do please let us know how to contribute to his defense fund, and let him know he is in so many of our prayers.
All that is known to the public is what the newspapers have been told by the Chesapeake Police Department. But this much is known, Mr. Frederick was in his own home, in the dark of night, when someone reportedly yelled “Police” and started knocking his door down. What would you have done, were you in his shoes? Anyone can orally identify themself as “Police,” but how is one to know if such a statement is true? Aren’t citizens entitled to be given reasonable assurance that they are truly dealing with “Police?”
And then, what was the reason for battering down the door of a home when it was reportedly surrounded by police?
This senseless case has already shattered too many lives, and multiple wrongs can never make a right. The are no moral or ethical justifications for attempting to execute Mr. Frederick for his self-protection actions.
I have already contributed to a local fund raiser for the family of the officer who was killed, and if there is a fund to which one can contribute for Mr. Frederick’s defense, I would be a willing contributor.
I stand here in complete support of Ryan… It’s amazing to me that the state attorney general has not investigated the pathetic police actions in this matter… A slimeball petty criminal breaks into Ryans’ place, then tells the cops about a grow operation, so he can get out of his own problems.. Then, the thugs make a few cursory drive-bys, and stormtroop Ryans castle… Now they upgrade the charge to capital murder, but somehow don’t bother to talk about the amount of miniscule pot that they found…. Sorry, that does not pass the “smell” test… I come from a state (Illinois) where the first forced-entry drug bust was attempted (around 1969-70).. Ha, guess what.. The stupid moronic officers went to the wrong place and terrized an elderly couple, got sued and still the courts found the cops innocent of all…. Welcome to the land of the decidedly unfree———— As far as the dead cop…. No sympathy here… He worked for a corrupt institution (law enforcement)… Stand strong bro Ryan!!!!!
If anyone beats down my door, cop or not, they will be shot. How am I supposed to know if it really is a cop? Do you think a criminal is above using this as a deception technique? I’m not taking any chances.
Unfortunately as others have stated, the perception is that many of our police forces are being overrun with overzealous ex-military cowboys who get their jollies from pushing civilians around. In my experience there is a huge difference between ex-military cops and cops without prior military experience. The latter using more common sense when dealing with situations like this. The former feeling they have something to prove (probably because of an unfulfilling military career).
I find it interesting that one of the prosecutors in the case is from Prince William County which is also known for having a corrupt police force.
Good luck Ryan!
I would be contacting Virginia state Senators and Representatives, the Governor’s Office, people in high places, the Innocence Project,ect. If enough people could be rallied together to chip in for Ryan to get the best legal representation, enough people supporting him and constantly putting it in the media, and Ryan would go free, and also would be awarded damages for his life being wrecked from his freedom being taken away, losing his job, girlfriend, ect. ….and do I feel sorry for the thugs with badges ? Hell no ! Tyranny and oppression runs amok, a man’s home is his castle, Ryan had a right to defend his home and self, and I don’t know anyone that would have a clear thinking head from being awakened at night with the sound of a home invasion going on, no time to think, grab the gun , wobble quickly to the living room still half asleep and adrenaline pumping, especially with having been broken into only days before, Ryan’s case is unusual circumstances , his case really needs national coverage , someone like Gerry Spence could not only free Ryan but get Ryan some MAJOR compensation, he really needs someone great to defend him cause those corrupt officials are super dirty in Chesapeake, don’t lose hope Ryan.