Comments on: Lima, Ohio Drug Raid Gone Bad

By: Social Memory Complex » God forbid you hesitate before opening fire on a target you can’t see!

Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:16:17 +0000

[...] you’ve been following this story then you know just how frightening this passage is: A jury verdict that cleared a police officer in [...]

By: rukaspirit

rukaspirit — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:39:35 +0000

I think there is something that all america has missed and in a letter to my community who are trying to ban pit bulls (respond to that after you’ve read ohio vs tellings appellate court decision and ohio supreme court decision) I said “I have a prima-facie for you: If 4% of our general population are sociopaths, and there is enough evidence that is sufficient to raise a presumption of fact or to establish the fact in question unless rebutted, than 4% of all our government leaders are sociopaths. To protect our society, then we need laws. 1 of 25 are much higher figures than what pit bulls exhibit wouldn’t you say? All political figures need to be tested. Is this moral reasoning? Is it the highest level of protection we could ever possibly provide our society?” I’m requesting from you readers to read the book “The Sociopath Next Door” as it is a very potentially social/political changing book.” I have learned that lesson, you can think as badly as you want about the system/company etc., but behind it all they are just people and much more change can be brought about by good conflict resolution. I’m not sure what they will do with all these sociopaths. There’s no cure. Can you imagine having no guilt and just doing horrific things out of boredome. Scary. To us not them. We need to protect ourselves. When you all write to your council people then to your mayors, then to your senators and representatives, then to your president, request legislation to determine anyone who serves a community be tested for this cruelty brain problem. It is a brain problem. Go to AmenClinic.com. What percentage of you will? That we feel this angry and act so passive makes the political environment more of an environment for sociopaths. We feel so preyed on by companies etc and are therefore submissive. You have a voice, exercise it to people who were voted in.

By: M.M.

M.M. — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:19:05 +0000

Quite frankly, if I were a cop in this neighborhood, I would say **** that, and just quit responding to any calls in that area. Shots fired? Burglary in progress? A woman being attacked outside your door? Someone breaking into your house? Well, you deal with it yourself, not my problem anymore.

By: M.M.

M.M. — Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:17:55 +0000

Yeah, everyone hates the cops until they’re a victim of crime. Then it’s WHY DIDN’T THE POLICE DO SOMETHING???

So great, let’s tie the police’s hands. Let’s just give the benefit of the doubt to all criminals, and let’s just let the majority of streets go unpatrolled for fear that someone might get hurt. Let’s just give criminals carte blanche to do as they please without any fear that the police might catch them or rough them up.

Go ahead, if that’s the kind of community you want to live in, fine. But don’t come complaining to me when your house gets broken into 5 times in three months and your kid gets gunned down by drug dealers on your doorstep.

By: Godzilla Hates Fags » Blog Archive » My Gift to the Lima, Ohio S.W.A.T. Unit

Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:18:37 +0000

[...] Team’s web page since Radley Balko posted a link to the site in the aftermath of one of those drug raids gone wrong that we read about on an ever-increasing basis, but are still supposed to be considered rare [...]

By: sandy

sandy — Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:04:33 +0000

hey guys, unless you are willing to “stand a post” you need to take a couple of steps back and decide for yourselves would you be willing to face these criminals in order to protect you and me! wait for the report. you can’t say this is not a racist issue because people like Jesse Jackson showing up in lima has made it one. if you are going to make it a me or them issue with those hired to protect you and your family from these drug runners who is left to protect you? do you honestly believe that this unfortunate woman did not know about the drugs? did not understand what could happen to her and her children? should they have waited until this guy came out? possibly. was this woman not an accomplice to the drug running? she and her boyfriend placed herself and her kids in this mess.

By: Copwatcher

Copwatcher — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:56:29 +0000

As usual attention to the raid’s tragic outcome has ceased. And of course my request for public records was denied (as I expected) because the “indicent” is still under investigation. Will there be a grand jury? A special prosecutor? A woman was killed & this is the end of it? I feel so sorry for the family & especially for her children. I’d like to know who the affiant was and who signed off on that warrant? If there was a warrant. When my nephew was killed there was NO warrant to be served at least that’s the way it appears. Everyone of those present during the raid was asked who had it in hand & nobody, not even the commander knew. None of the members ever saw it. And when one was served it came the next day with no date & no time stamp. I don’t believe there was a warrant at the time of the raid so just exactly what were their intentions? This is happening all over this country and we are supposed to trust them? I think not.

By: tula

tula — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:02:58 +0000

I was carried down a mountain by SWAT team members in Oregon
It was really disturbing to see a smiley face sticker on the end of a gun.

Probably not all but, any of the people who get into that profession would just as easily be in the jails. The mentality is the same. Loving your gun is about loving that you have the power to kill. That means you don’t respect other’s lives.
These situations where innocent people are killed prove it. These deaths are easily avoidable. If you can think logically you can look at any of these situations and come up with ways things could have been planned differently so that no one died. They just don’t care to do it. Sometimes they do, but not caring once is too often. And there is big long history of power tripping from police here and all over the world/ Now and probably since the first one ever existed.

By: Copwatcher

Copwatcher — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:56:17 +0000

Unless the SWAT carried a warrant with “NO KNOCK” conspicuously written on it they had every responsibility to knock. NO KNOCK warrants are very hard to obtain so I seriously doubt they were armed with one. Therefore, raid or not, surprise or not they are required by LAW (you know that thing they are supposed to be enforcing) to knock, wait a sufficient amount of time in order for the occupant to answer the door & then they can crash in. And even then they do not have the right to shoot anybody just because they might become afraid. Just what happened that night? I understand the suspect was already under arrest & the woman was going up stairs to get the other children. Did the LEO shoot her in the back? 31 years at a LEO doesn’t necessarily make a good SWAT member & I have to laugh when I read that they have training every month. Many SWAT count cleaning their weapons or talking about raids in a classroom as training. And after visiting the LPD web site I was surprised & offended to see their SWAT section which featured an animated LEO shooting an automatic weapon directly into the face of the viewer. This looks & sounds too much like cowboys. Yes I must agree that it doesn’t appear to be racial, I think most SWAT are equal opporutunity killers. We wouldn’t continually have to be confronted by these scenarios if drugs were legalized. Your south side would clean up very quickly when there was no reason to buy your fix from an ass hole standing on the corner. No more drive bys. No more little innocent children being shot by over zealous LE. There is no other way to stop war death statistics except to end the war.

By: Melissa

Melissa — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:42:52 +0000

My response to all of you.-The LPD has a team called PACE which conducted this raid.They NEVER knock in raids then it wouldn’t be a raid.The Lima Community has a ginormous drug problem and PACE being one of TWO teams has became more and more zealous over the last couple years trying to gain control over the diminishing community(And as believed by a large portion of MY community in competition for funding ect. with the Sheriffs Department)Now however we spin it and whatever we focus on Police Officers are humans just like the rest of us.And along side of being humans they are under the watchful eye of the rest of the government and citizens alike.They don’t make the choice to make mistakes.And take lives.If only for liability issues. They made a bad decision/not the first of this sort in this area either/ but however so tragic the risks they have been taking with human lives (you see I say human, not taxpaying)for a long time has finally caught up with them.This is a notion of unpredictability the law enforcement has implemented in order to intimidate the drug culture in the area.The idea is that they will come anywhere anytime-so don’t have it in your home. Otherwise the “offenders” would limit their activities to the “Off Hours” Can you see why they have resorted to these tactics? How else could they have made an impact on the decaying South side of Lima? It’s not a racial issue it is a culture issue. White individuals in the culture get harassed by the Police and Sheriffs Department also. They are desperate, never the less held accountable by law and these antics have to be restricted to: “No Other Way” circumstances. (Raiding a house with children inside)I’d like to know why they didn’t wait for Anthony Terry to leave, or why they couldn’t surround the house and knock?? In other places the Drug Enforcement Officials will turn the water off or have the landlord unlock the door. Peacefully. Please tell me all of this risk wasn’t to attempt to secure another low-level felony charge? And to the woman who commented on the 8th about lower class citizens and educating them on consequences-Ma’am some people have no outlet, no support systems, and no resources. This 26 year old mother had 6 children she had them all in her care. Whatever led her to that position she was taking responsibility for all of her choices and all I can say to you is before casting Judgment you need to thank, whoever it is that you thank, that you have never been put in the position or never will be in the position this young lady was unvoluntarily born into. And I worn you that in the United States something like 60% is low poverty level. The drug problem is a issue for all races in all walks of life and that sort of closed minded thinking is only going to hinder our progress. You can’t have a clue of the history of this city, that family, or that individual. 26? She had a her entire life to live. The damage on these children today, January 10, can’t stand beside the mistakes made proir to January 4, 2008. Who is going to pay for that?

By: Copwatcher

Copwatcher — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:59:08 +0000

Respectfully I must ask why LE didn’t knock on the door & attempt to serve the warrant. Was this raid a “No Knock” warrant. With all that self-protection I can’t help but wonder why we rarely see LE make a sincere attempt to serve the warrant before crashing in guns blazing. Raids are not all that dangerous for LE. The real danger for them is on the road, pull overs when they face the unexpected. If SWAT has done their homework they know exactly what is going on inside the house & it is their responsibility to make consessions if there are children present. But if anyone thinks BCI or the FBI will investigate fairly I think you will be sorely disappointed. The investigation will reveal that the officer was in fear for his life…that’s all LE has to say whether it is so or not & they are off the hook. It’s as simple as that. I fully support good policing I despise the bad.

By: Copwatcher

Copwatcher — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:50:39 +0000

The Lima Chief said the raid followed the book. What book? Ohio doesn’t have any standards for conducting ESU raids. The investigation, however much & however long is left to the discretion of the commander. Trying to understand what happened to my nephew I conducted my own investigation. It brought me to Lou Agosta, Asst. Director of the Ohio Peace Academy who said that although they conduct classes for LE on how to do these raids there are NO laws; no real rules/requirements. It scares me to death to know that there are LEOs out there armed to the gills, many who appear to be as psycopathic as the “villians” they pursue. As in the case of Clayton Helriggle, the commander of the ESU team had just returned from a paid summer vacation while BCI investigated allegations of abuse lodged by his minor step-daughter. And his personnel file contained disciplinary actions that if not (IMHO) for the FOP would have put him out of a job & onto the street. Drinking, gambling & falsifying records to name just a few. I appreciate Mr. Balko’s attention to this matter. America is armed & dangerous & that applies to those who are appointed to serve & protect but shoot to kill.

By: Steph

Steph — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:24:23 +0000

To Natalie:

Bravo…at least someone knows what they’re talking about and can spell it all out correctly.

By: Jefferson

Jefferson — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:47:02 +0000

This Raid was out of order it shouldn’t have NEVER been handle this way. Natalie I I say to you BRAIN WASH you are. Innocent people got hurt and killed. Wilson’s family needs justice. Swap is not the only one responsible for this shooting wake up people. It’s not just about race it play it’s part. Research

By: Druff

Druff — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:36:09 +0000

@Natalie,

Haha, I hope you’re on the receiving end of the police “only doing their job” sometime real soon. And I hope it’s for something non-violent. Without a trial. And I hope your close family members are collateral damage. To educate you.

By: Natalie

Natalie — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:55:27 +0000

Everyone is making a big fuss over this, but honestly, the police were only doing their job. What does one expect to happen when someone is selling crack out the house? A drug raid will happen, and at that point the suspects are subject to lose everything. Even their lives. Someone needs to educate the lower class on the consequences of making bad decisions and breaking the law.

By: Persona non grata

Persona non grata — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:41:14 +0000

“Police Maj. Richard Shade, a former SWAT commander for the department, said it’s not unusual for children to be inside homes raided by police officers.”

Very professional.

Our tax dollars, homeland security grants, are being spent training and arming roving bands of ya-hoo cowboys to serve warrants, using uber aggressive para-military breach tactics, on non-violent people while their children are at home.

The lunatics are offically running the ass-ylum.

Thank you Easter Bunny.

By: Radley Balko

Radley Balko — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:22:53 +0000

Ms. Helriggle,

Thanks for your comment. I’ve written a bit about your son’s case. My sympathies. Wish I could say we’ve learned from it.

Looks Ohio didn’t even learn much.

Perhaps one day we’ll get congressional hearings on this issue, and you and the dozens of families like yours can have a day and a forum to tell your stories.

By: Sheri

Sheri — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:30:00 +0000

My son was also killed in a raid such as this in Ohio (Clayton Helriggle ’79-’02). Don’t take this wrong, I am not a racist, but I’ll be interested to see how this goes since the players are black and they have some black organizations standing up for them.

In our case, it was just us, middleclass whites, with no social groups to back us up, just concerned citizens.

Hopefully, this family will be allowed some sort of justice. They must trust their gut and fight with everything they have and more. My prayers are with them, as they have a mighty fight lookin’ at them.

By: Leshrac

Leshrac — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:44:32 +0000

Wait for next weeks headlines: “Parents and pets shot, goldfish pinned to wall with military boot knives, children executed for not revealing location of drug stash. See police pat each other on back and snicker at the blood pools on you.tube.” And of course the followup “Tragedy at wrong address no-knock raid, no warrant and CI unable to be located. Police exonerated as all procedures were by the book”.
A state is quoting “Executive privledge” in another snafu? Wtf IS this country coming too??!!