TheAgitator.com
Ugh
Friday, December 14th, 2007Conversation at the Apple store yesterday:
Apple guy: Your hard drive is corrupted.
Me: Crap.
Him: You can go through and salvage what you can, but it’s going to be a pretty tedious process.
Me: The computer isn’t even two years old. What could have caused it?
Him: Lost of things. Do you ever type while the computer is moving or shaking?
Me: What do you mean, like in a car?
Him: In a car, on a plane. Ever type on it while it’s sitting on your lap?
Me: Well, yeah.
Him: You probably shouldn’t.
Me: What? I can’t use it on my lap?
Him: We don’t recommend it. The motion can put stress on the hard drive.
Me: Isn’t it called a “laptop?”
Him: We don’t use that term anymore. We call them “notebook computers,” now.
Me: Isn’t the whole purpose of a portable computer being able to use it on the go? Like, on planes, or in a car?
Him: We really recommend you only use your notebook on a firm, steady surface, like a desktop.
Me: Doesn’t that really just make it a “desktop computer,” then?
Him: We’d be happy to install a new hard drive for you for $289.
So after frantically trying to salvage what I can from my hard drive (I last backed up about a month ago, so all is not lost), I have to take my computer to Maryland today to get a new hard drive installed.
Also, after reading from my favorite economists how wasteful and inefficient extended warranties are, I dutifully declined to purchase one when I bought my new Mac a couple of years ago. Wouldn’t you know it, if I had bought the extended warranty, I’d have been covered.
Is this why the Cory Maye update has been delayed?
Computers are a fad, we’ll get rid of them soon.
Usually I don’t get extended warranties either, but I was advised to always get the AppleCare plan with Apple products. As good as they are, they do break (I guess gorgeous design isn’t everything). Especially with laptops, the AppleCare will cover the 90% chance that your battery wil crap out in those 3 years, basically paying for itself.
Not that it will help you now, but I’d recommend upgrading to Leopard if you can. Time Machine is pretty sweet, and while I used to backup even less frequently than you, now it’s done automatically 24 times a day.
The hard drive being “corrupted” isn’t a reason to replace the drive. Corrupt data might be a reason to reformat the drive. If you have salvaged data, and have a backup, you might try reformatting and seeing how the drive handles data again. If what he meant was the surface of the drive has been damaged by the drive heads (which is what it seems like he is talking about), I’ve never heard that called “corruption,” but it would require replacement.
BTW, how much did the applecare plan cost?
Before you bring it in, you may want to give Spinrite a try. It can usually recover hard drive problems, like the one you have.
http://www.grc.com/spinrite.htm
-Matt
The extended warranty thing does not work for Mac’s because the hardware is incredibly expensive.
For the IBM compatible market, there are so many sources of hardware that you can replace any broken part inexpensive.
Mac hardware tends to have a single supplier, and hence can charge very high prices since the only price they have to beat is the replacement cost of your computer.
Personally, I think Mac’s are *way* overpriced. You get more functionality from a good linux laptop at a quarter the price.
The apple store ‘genius’ is an idiot. Notebook harddrives are designed to take all sorts of pains and are testing under extreme scenarios. But they also die from all sorts of issues as well. They can die from being jarred, from over-heating or because of sun spots. It is, afterall, a sophisticate piece of machinery that contains a disc(s) that moves very very fast.
@John Jenkins – if your hard drive data is “corrupted” get the drive replaced. Harddrives are cheap. Why risk it the second time? And applecare for his machine would of cost almost the same as the new HD.
I bought a 3 year one for my old Dell desktop and the hard drive died just within the 3 year time limit. Totally free replacement, money well spent. I have an Apple “notebook” now too and I’m not that impressed. It’s pretty but I had to have it operated on within a month of owning it and after little over a year the touch pad is so bad I have to have a mouse on hand at all times in case it stops working and the touchpad clicker thing [technical term] appears to be dying. I’ll probably buy another Mac when this one dies and yes I plan on buying the warranty. I spent nearly 3k on my Apple and I expected better. And yet I know I’ll keep going back for more.
Oh, and there’s something seriously wrong with the dvd drive, though it does still work, it sounds like a paper shredder [I'm not exaggerating] each time i put a disc in.
I keep hoping I just got a lemon and that they’re not all this bad.
I would seriously consider getting a second opinion on that diagnosis as many places are not geared towards fixing computer problems as much as they are towards up-selling new items. Apple’s customer service is not the best from what I have read on http://consumerist.com/ .
My advice: Find someone who you trust that knows how to fix a computer or learn to do it yourself to avoid getting gouged at these types of “service” departments. (Yes, I realize that many of us do not have the time to devote to studying how to repair computers, but it will pay for itself in the long run by not having to pay the insane prices for restoring data/minor tech issues.) I am glad you were smart enough to know the importance of backing-up your data!
I am extremely grateful for the Mac service plan. I got so much out of it, Apple made me sign a non-disclosure agreement. I’m not kidding.
$289 for a new hard drive, what size? I would get a second opinion.
Check out…
http://www.powerbookmedic.com/Powerbook-iBook-Macbook-Hard-Drive-Upgrades-Pro-p-1-c-256.html
…if you know a techie, order the HD yourself and have them install the OS for you, then restore all the data.
Or you could have not got a Mac. But seriously, just open it up and throw a new hard drive in there. Working on a laptop is the same as a desktop once you figure out how to get it open.
Wait, I thought Apples were perfect. How could this happen?
I keep no important data on my laptop that isn’t instantly backed up. Use a thumb drive when traveling, network drive while at home.
$289 to put in a new HD, geeze.
That article was about extended warranties sold by retailers, not by the manufacturer… ALWAYS get the manufacturer warranty. It covers every stupid little thing (I’ve gotten cosmetic repairs for my Macbook) and when I had a Dell (which, granted, breaks way more often than a Mac), I got free repairs the cost of which would have totalled about 1.5 times what I paid for the computer, including a free motherboard after I may or may not have spilled coffee on it. Manufacturers always want to fulfill the terms of the warranty and keep you a happy customer, and it costs them little to provide you with the parts they make themselves, unlike the retailers, who have to pay for the parts and so try to avoid providing you with anything until you’re ready to sue them.
What do you get for the $300? Do they roll the os back on and reapply your data? Or do they just throw a new drive in and a restore cd? I agree with above poster. I have NEVER heard corrupt used to mean bad hard drive. Weird.
Some common sense to the warranties is always in order. I may have crunch work sessions but I estimate there’s no big loss if my computer dies. It’s obsolete long before I could wear them out. Like a car, you should get the 10yr/100k if you plan on driving 100k in 5 years but not if you doubt you’ll break 50k in 10. It’s insurance, plays the odds. Unless your data is precious like Radley’s is. Someone should buy him a warranty for x-mas:)
That exchange in the Apple store sounded straight outta Dilbert.
Really.
But as someone else stated, data corruption doesn’t necessarily equal dead HDD. A lot of newer laptops (yes, laptops) like the IBM Lenovo T60 my company assigns me have accelerometers in them so that if it’s moving too much it lifts the heads from the drive. I could have sworn Apples from the past few years had that too.
Y’know, the Asus Eee as a whole is only a little more expensive than that hard disk replacement…
Service plans are still generally a waste of money. You focus on the one item that breaks and ignore the ones you wasted the money on. It might be reasonable with a laptop, however, since they go through so much wear and tear (and my powerbook burns through batteries likes a fiend).
Episiarch: I wasn’t gonna ask.
I sent him a longer e-mail, but 2 quick points.
1) All drives are g-shock rated to something. All maxtor laptop drives are rated to 250g for 2ms while operating. That’s something like a 4′ fall onto a concrete floor.
2) the original iPod had a mechanical hard drive in it for storage.
So, it’s patently absurd to claim that typing on the computer while having it in your lap is the likely reason the drive went bad. These drives are designed to work while moving around.
And, nearly $300 for a new drive is obscenely high, even if they do install it, and transfer the data, they must be charging somewhere near $150-$200/hr for the service.
If you’ve got a Macbook (and not an iBook), swapping the hard drive is actually a pretty simple procedure. The Apple website even has a service manual with instructions. Then you just need to reinstall from the original OS disks.
You should be able to get a SATA notebook Hard Drive for MUCH less than $289.00.
I agree with many of the above concerning the advantage to trying to replace the drive yourself. I have a very old Toshiba laptop which has withstood a huge amount of abuse, but finally, the hard drive just died (this was beyond simple “corruption”, this was physical damage to the HD surface). After checking at various repair locations, I was disappointed to find that the cost would have been similar to yours (around $300 for the more reputable sources). After finding out that I could buy a new HD myself for a maximum of $130 (it’s an old model, so it’s a rare piece), I decided I would give it a go on my own. The installation was a piece of cake (literally under 5 minutes to replace it). Then I just got a techie friend of mine to assist me with reinstalling the necessary drivers and the OS. I’m not an expert by any means, and the installation was simple. I’m sure anybody can do it if they just poke around online/in their laptop manual first.
But I bet that in a few weeks you will praise Apple products versus windows clones.
There is something about the Apple cult. I had one IPod the simply stopped working and its replacement had to be replaced because of the cracked screen problems. That is a crappy product.
It seems that the main difference between Apples and Windows clones now is that the owner of the latter know that they are overpriced and unreliable whereas the owners of the former don’t.
(P.S. This was written on a MacBook pro.)
You’re going to get burned now and then, but extended warranties are mostly a waste of money. Salesmen get a high commission on them so they push them like mad.
Condolences.
Doubly so, since your flaw drew the standard anti-Apple trolls with their supremely clever “ZOMG, An Apple Broke? NO WAI!” remarks.
The apple tech you spoke to is an idiot.
Spinrite has long been a fine product for windows, but the single best hard drive recovery app for MacOS is DiskWarrior from AlSoft. Al Whipple knows more about drives than anyone I’ve ever met. His app recovers more from corrupted drives than any other app I’ve seen. It’s usually available on the shelf at the apple store.
For replacing the drive itself, see iFixit.com for a step-by-step walkthrough and see if you feel up to doing what it says.
Sometimes hard drives die sooner than they should. I wouldn’t blame Apple. The support guy’s talk was BS, of course, but they probably aren’t comfortable saying “eh, that happens sometimes, sorry”. You can probably replace the drive yourself, if you’re not totally unhandy. Getting the drive from Newegg or something would be a lot cheaper than getting it from Apple.
In a couple years’ time most laptop “hard drives” will be solid state memory (Apple’s likely releasing a machine with such a drive next year, and other vendors already sell them) and we can put this era of unreliable storage behind us.
Oh, and @Jaisn, I just got a Macbook Pro from work (it runs Windows Vista really well!) and my DVD drive also sounds like a paper shredder. I assume it’s standard. I was really disappointed with the DVD drive after all the slot-loading love. I expect the disc to get grabbed much sooner than it does.
Always listen to the advice of academic economists, for it is extremely wise. But never take their advice as a guide to your own choice of incentives: even they would say that this is a bad idea. :)
Partly echoing those who say look in to a DYI drive replacement – it’ll save a lot, and isn’t hard. Alternately, there should be local consultants around you that can do it cheaply. Also echoing the Time Machine advice, but with two caveats: If you use File Vault, be careful on the OS upgrade – you need to turn it off for the upgrade, and then back on. This requires as much space as the size of your home directory free. Also, if you use Aperture, disable FV for its storage area – you _will_ quickly fill up your backup drive this way, due to the way it handles storage.
Also, if you have a reasonably modern MBP (you didn’t say what model you have), that Apple rep is even more of an idiot – there are built in “rapid motion detectors” that are designed to park the drive heads if the machine undergoes rapid acceleration (e.g., falls). Plus, the feature has enabled folks to write lots of fun, useless software like marble games and software seismographs.
Daveadams: That’s odd. My MBP (17″) DVD drive is really quiet. The fans are rather loud when decoding/playing a DVD, but that’s to be expected, given the processor involved and density of the machine. (which is my only real complaint with the machine – DVDs, Photoshop, Mathematica, Aperture, etc. can all quickly bring the machine to ~80C, making it too hot for my lap. Otherwise, it is the best laptop I’ve ever had, and well worth the Apple price premium.) I wonder if they switched drive manufacturers at some point.
At least he didn’t buy a Dell (pioneers of the planned-obsolescence riveted-shut tower: Dust bunny in the power-supply fan? Too bad; buy a new computer!)
The dirty little secret of laptops is that a $1.50 torx screwdriver from Sears and a tape-apart PDF scavenged off eMule will guide you through replacing or upgrading most plug-in components of a laptop. E.g., the difference between an expensive model and a cheap model is often just the amount of installed ram and the size of the drive, and the difference can be wildly greater the difference in the costs of those purchased separately.
Any decent-sized computer parts store will sell a doohicky that enables connecting a laptop drive to the IDE chain of a tower system (such as a used G3 blue-and-white or G4 gray-and-white, which you can snap up for less than a hundred), permitting you to diagnose and recover the drive that way. There’s also a utility (the name escapes me) which enables you to fully back-up a MacOS volume *from that drive to another while it is running* (a la Acronis True Image for PCs).
As always in these cases, Google is your friend to saving big-time cash and aggravation.
Plenty of videos online showing how to replace a disk in a MacBook. Here’s the obvious google search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=replacing+a+disk+in+a+MacBook&btnG=Google+Search
I dunno about Torx, I replaced the disk in my dotter’s ibook with a standard Philips. Ditto when I bought a Dell D830 in August, I immediately swapped out the 80g drive for a 250g drive using a Philips, a rusty spoon, chewing gum, and duct tape. (well, just kidding about the chewing gum.)
Here’s a 250g Samsung 2.5″ SATA drive at Newegg for $150:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152094
Smaller disks are cheaper roughly in proportion to capacity.
Or you can go to a vendor who specializes in Mac hardware like macsales.com, I’ve had good experience with them over the years. You’re likely to get better hand-holding for a Mac from them, should you need handholding.
Buying a disk from Apple (or Dell, or IBM/Lenovo) is a sucker’s game.. you not only pay for the disk, you pay thru the nose for Apple’s “certification”, which is meaningless.
The two points to check are 1) whether the laptop uses ATA (aka PATA) or SATA, you can find that by looking at the details in “About this computer” IIRC (if the machine is less than two years old, it’s almost certainly SATA); 2) laptop drives are 2.5″ so you’ll be way disappointed if you buy a 3.5″ drive, despite the lower price.
Also Apple uses the same components everyone else does these days, and has for years. When you consider that you get a lot more software packaged with the Mac, it’s not obvious that a Mac isn’t cheaper than a comparably performing Wintel box. (And these days you can run Mac OS X on a standard Wintel box if you’re not too finicky about legalities.)
Incidentally, there are tools which predict imminent disk failure. Not very well, but better than nothing. Dunno what the tools are called on Apple, but it’s the SMART disk interface standard.