Comments on: Want to Get Away With Murder in Chicago? http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/ It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do. Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:36:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: qarltkjhn http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-159180 qarltkjhn Fri, 25 Jul 2008 23:39:11 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-159180 @sje #8: bloggers may be less beholden than the msm but they also tend to have smaller, less influential audiences and are more easily silenced. see for example, ratemycop.com, which was denied hosting by multiple servers after pressure was brought to bear by cop advocacy groups @sje #8: bloggers may be less beholden than the msm but they also tend to have smaller, less influential audiences and are more easily silenced. see for example, ratemycop.com, which was denied hosting by multiple servers after pressure was brought to bear by cop advocacy groups

]]> By: The Agitator » Blog Archive » The Sun-Times Embraces the Nanny State http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-158549 The Agitator » Blog Archive » The Sun-Times Embraces the Nanny State Fri, 25 Jul 2008 05:24:44 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-158549 [...] the law, there’s a decent chance those tapes would disappear in short order. Not sure why I would think such a thing. Just a hunch, I [...] [...] the law, there’s a decent chance those tapes would disappear in short order. Not sure why I would think such a thing. Just a hunch, I [...]

]]> By: DOC http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-138107 DOC Tue, 24 Jun 2008 17:29:54 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-138107 How can police constantly kill innocent people especially minorities and white people try to rationalize that sick cruel behavior.If your family member had their head blowed off and guns placed on their dead bodies (which is common practice)I'd like to see ow you can think that is okay.Due to police corruption and being in bed with the gangs that increases the crimes and violence when they know they are protected by the police while leaving law abiding citizens unprotected. How can police constantly kill innocent people especially minorities and white people try to rationalize that sick cruel behavior.If your family member had their head blowed off and guns placed on their dead bodies (which is common practice)I’d like to see ow you can think that is okay.Due to police corruption and being in bed with the gangs that increases the crimes and violence when they know they are protected by the police while leaving law abiding citizens unprotected.

]]> By: The Agitator » Blog Archive » Chicago PD Switches to Battle Mode http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-113567 The Agitator » Blog Archive » Chicago PD Switches to Battle Mode Mon, 19 May 2008 20:32:49 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-113567 [...] Chicago PD Chief Jody Weis was brought in to clean up after a series of police beatings, shootings, and corruption scandals forced out former Chief Phil Cline. Granted, Chicago’s had a violent [...] [...] Chicago PD Chief Jody Weis was brought in to clean up after a series of police beatings, shootings, and corruption scandals forced out former Chief Phil Cline. Granted, Chicago’s had a violent [...]

]]> By: Libertarians for Obama » Something that has been overlooked when it comes to civil liberties http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-72237 Libertarians for Obama » Something that has been overlooked when it comes to civil liberties Sun, 03 Feb 2008 02:18:43 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-72237 [...] Chicago police shootings are, for practical purposes, uninvestigated. [...] [...] Chicago police shootings are, for practical purposes, uninvestigated. [...]

]]> By: The Agitator » Blog Archive » More Professionalism http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-71959 The Agitator » Blog Archive » More Professionalism Fri, 01 Feb 2008 19:15:00 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-71959 [...] showed similar disinterest in complaints against the city’s police, even when it comes to police shootings. Digg it |  reddit |  del.icio.us |  [...] [...] showed similar disinterest in complaints against the city’s police, even when it comes to police shootings. Digg it |  reddit |  del.icio.us |  [...]

]]> By: Nick T http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66414 Nick T Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:34:56 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66414 Sorry that should say: DAs are advising the officer OR investigating a possible crime. Sorry that should say: DAs are advising the officer OR investigating a possible crime.

]]> By: Nick T http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66413 Nick T Sat, 15 Dec 2007 01:31:58 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66413 "Depending who you believe, the “roundtables” are either a defined administrative response to coodinate the department’s handling of an incident OR or the first step in planning the coverup if it would make the department look bad. I suspect both are true." This may be true, but if the DA's office is sitting in on these roundtables than they can not be said to be the former. It makes perfect sense for a Police department to investigate it's own incident and gather facts to present its side to the public, but if the DA is there, it is incredibly problematic for the following reasons: 1) It significantly implicates the officer's 5th Amendment rights (which should not be entirely discarded b/c of his public servant status - police should never be required to forego this incredibly important right, but if they choose not to speak then the situation probably remains unclear and they should be suspended until it gets clearer as to what happened) becauseit's not clear if the DAs are advising the officer and investigating a possible crime. 2) If the DA is going to make decisions as to whether to prosecute the police officer based on that meeting, it makes it hard to come away with an objective, evidence-based decision and, as we see here DAs will probably feel inclined to let cops off the hook. Further, even if there is no DA presence it seems wrong for the police to implement a procedure where they "coordinate" their response to an incident. That's really just a nice way to say "cover-up" for a government agency charged with enforcing the law. “Depending who you believe, the “roundtables” are either a defined administrative response to coodinate the department’s handling of an incident OR or the first step in planning the coverup if it would make the department look bad. I suspect both are true.”

This may be true, but if the DA’s office is sitting in on these roundtables than they can not be said to be the former. It makes perfect sense for a Police department to investigate it’s own incident and gather facts to present its side to the public, but if the DA is there, it is incredibly problematic for the following reasons: 1) It significantly implicates the officer’s 5th Amendment rights (which should not be entirely discarded b/c of his public servant status - police should never be required to forego this incredibly important right, but if they choose not to speak then the situation probably remains unclear and they should be suspended until it gets clearer as to what happened) becauseit’s not clear if the DAs are advising the officer and investigating a possible crime. 2) If the DA is going to make decisions as to whether to prosecute the police officer based on that meeting, it makes it hard to come away with an objective, evidence-based decision and, as we see here DAs will probably feel inclined to let cops off the hook.

Further, even if there is no DA presence it seems wrong for the police to implement a procedure where they “coordinate” their response to an incident. That’s really just a nice way to say “cover-up” for a government agency charged with enforcing the law.

]]> By: paulie http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66357 paulie Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:22:29 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66357 New Copwatch cause on facebook http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/46872?h=mfccb&recruiter_id=842652 New Copwatch cause on facebook

http://apps.facebook.com/causes/view_cause/46872?h=mfccb&recruiter_id=842652

]]> By: refugee http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66344 refugee Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:33:53 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66344 Every story that even remotely touches on the honesty of Chicago's city government needs to reference their current effort to put up a city-owned casino. Ostensibly, the money will go to meet transportation needs. The hitch: <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=17222508" rel="nofollow">this NPR report</a> Chicago is so corrupt that it doesn't meet gaming board standards for casino ownership--and according to <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20071018/ai_n21065480" rel="nofollow">this article</a>, "By the standards of the gambling industry nationwide, the Illinois Gaming Board is a relatively weak regulatory agency hindered by gaps in its legal responsibility and constrained by staffing problems that have often left it without sufficient resources to adequately police the existing riverboat casinos". Every story that even remotely touches on the honesty of Chicago’s city government needs to reference their current effort to put up a city-owned casino. Ostensibly, the money will go to meet transportation needs.

The hitch: this NPR report Chicago is so corrupt that it doesn’t meet gaming board standards for casino ownership–and according to this article, “By the standards of the gambling industry nationwide, the Illinois Gaming Board is a relatively weak regulatory agency hindered by gaps in its legal responsibility and constrained by staffing problems that have often left it without sufficient resources to adequately police the existing riverboat casinos”.

]]> By: Joel http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66339 Joel Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:10:50 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66339 I moved to Chicago a year ago from a small New England town. I can't say the police are too well respected around here from what I've seen. The police really are just civil servants with guns here. And a history of corruption. I've taken to reading the paper since I got here. I've taken note of the fact that the police seen to shoot a lot of people here. And a lot of the policemen are off duty. And no one ever seems to be very upset about it. In fact, no one seems to get upset much at all. I moved to Chicago a year ago from a small New England town. I can’t say the police are too well respected around here from what I’ve seen. The police really are just civil servants with guns here. And a history of corruption.

I’ve taken to reading the paper since I got here. I’ve taken note of the fact that the police seen to shoot a lot of people here. And a lot of the policemen are off duty. And no one ever seems to be very upset about it. In fact, no one seems to get upset much at all.

]]> By: Robert http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66333 Robert Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:55:52 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66333 "To be fair, cops receive administrative privileges because they are subject to the chain of command. If I’m questioned by police, I have the right to remain silent, but if a cop is questioned about an incident by his commander, he is duty-bound to answer or lose his job, which is in conflict with his right to remain silent. " This is exactly as it should be. Due to the fact that police are given extraordinary powers over citizens, they should be held to a higher standard. They do not lose their right to reamain silent at all, if they wish to remain silent, they can still exercise their 5th amendment rights. If a police officer feels the need to exercise his or her 5th amendment rights, that officer should immediately be removed from duty and not reinstated until the officer feels comfortable about telling the truth. Remember, police officers are supposed to be upholding the law, not breaking it. I believe that if a police officer is worried about giving up his or her 5th amendment rights while on duty, then that person has no business being a police officer. “To be fair, cops receive administrative privileges because they are subject to the chain of command. If I’m questioned by police, I have the right to remain silent, but if a cop is questioned about an incident by his commander, he is duty-bound to answer or lose his job, which is in conflict with his right to remain silent. ”

This is exactly as it should be. Due to the fact that police are given extraordinary powers over citizens, they should be held to a higher standard. They do not lose their right to reamain silent at all, if they wish to remain silent, they can still exercise their 5th amendment rights. If a police officer feels the need to exercise his or her 5th amendment rights, that officer should immediately be removed from duty and not reinstated until the officer feels comfortable about telling the truth. Remember, police officers are supposed to be upholding the law, not breaking it.

I believe that if a police officer is worried about giving up his or her 5th amendment rights while on duty, then that person has no business being a police officer.

]]> By: Windypundit http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66330 Windypundit Fri, 14 Dec 2007 02:00:46 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66330 To be fair, cops receive administrative privileges because they are subject to the chain of command. If I'm questioned by police, I have the right to remain silent, but if a cop is questioned about an incident by his commander, he is duty-bound to answer or lose his job, which is in conflict with his right to remain silent. The rules spell out the procedures for dealing with this. Depending who you believe, the "roundtables" are either a defined administrative response to coodinate the department's handling of an incident OR or the first step in planning the coverup if it would make the department look bad. I suspect both are true. The big news in Chicago cop land, however, is that the department is getting a new top guy. Everybody is excited because he's (a) getting a higher salary than the mayor, (b) an outsider without obvious reasons to be loyal to the powers that be in this town, and (c) a Fed. The rumor is that the feds were threatening to take over the department, so Mayor Daley appointed a retiring FBI SAC to smooth things over with them. It remains to be seen whether the new guy will be (1) subverted by Chicago politices, or (2a) genuinely reform the department, or (2b) genuinely reform the department until the powers that be realize what's happening and kick him out. To be fair, cops receive administrative privileges because they are subject to the chain of command. If I’m questioned by police, I have the right to remain silent, but if a cop is questioned about an incident by his commander, he is duty-bound to answer or lose his job, which is in conflict with his right to remain silent. The rules spell out the procedures for dealing with this.

Depending who you believe, the “roundtables” are either a defined administrative response to coodinate the department’s handling of an incident OR or the first step in planning the coverup if it would make the department look bad. I suspect both are true.

The big news in Chicago cop land, however, is that the department is getting a new top guy. Everybody is excited because he’s (a) getting a higher salary than the mayor, (b) an outsider without obvious reasons to be loyal to the powers that be in this town, and (c) a Fed.

The rumor is that the feds were threatening to take over the department, so Mayor Daley appointed a retiring FBI SAC to smooth things over with them.

It remains to be seen whether the new guy will be (1) subverted by Chicago politices, or (2a) genuinely reform the department, or (2b) genuinely reform the department until the powers that be realize what’s happening and kick him out.

]]> By: SJE http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66329 SJE Fri, 14 Dec 2007 00:27:57 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66329 sorry: edit the last point. Bloggers are LESS dependent and beholden to governments etc than the MSM. They can report on something without worrying that the police will not talk to them, or that the mayor will deny access, or the city will stop printing classified advertisements ( a major source of revenue for newspapers) sorry: edit the last point.
Bloggers are LESS dependent and beholden to governments etc than the MSM. They can report on something without worrying that the police will not talk to them, or that the mayor will deny access, or the city will stop printing classified advertisements ( a major source of revenue for newspapers)

]]> By: SJE http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66328 SJE Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:45:59 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66328 Taxpayers SHOULD have a say at election time. Unfortunately, the ability of taxpayers to have their say is limited (a) elections are about more than one thing (b) Attempts by elected officials to call police to account is opposed by the police union/FOP. (c) Complexity of the issue: Because of lack of discussion, the public does not have much idea about the issues involved. Against that, those opposing police oversight merely play the "tough on crime" card, which is well understood. (d) The police, prosecutors, forensics etc are very good at keeping the code of silence. Until people really realize that this is not just "an isolated incident," no one will pay attention. Perhaps we only have evidence of the problem now that recording devices are widely available, cheap, and concealable. Who would have had a video camera in his car 10 years ago. (e) related to (c) and (d): the web allows people across the nation to communicate better than before, to share information. Also, bloggers are dependent and beholden to governments to the extent of the MSM All in all: Radley's blogging is a force for good, but it will take time to see change. Taxpayers SHOULD have a say at election time. Unfortunately, the ability of taxpayers to have their say is limited
(a) elections are about more than one thing
(b) Attempts by elected officials to call police to account is opposed by the police union/FOP.
(c) Complexity of the issue: Because of lack of discussion, the public does not have much idea about the issues involved. Against that, those opposing police oversight merely play the “tough on crime” card, which is well understood.
(d) The police, prosecutors, forensics etc are very good at keeping the code of silence. Until people really realize that this is not just “an isolated incident,” no one will pay attention. Perhaps we only have evidence of the problem now that recording devices are widely available, cheap, and concealable. Who would have had a video camera in his car 10 years ago.
(e) related to (c) and (d): the web allows people across the nation to communicate better than before, to share information. Also, bloggers are dependent and beholden to governments to the extent of the MSM

All in all: Radley’s blogging is a force for good, but it will take time to see change.

]]> By: Nick T http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66326 Nick T Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:05:41 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66326 Shouldn't the title of this post be "Scalia's New Professionalism? Part 3,465,262?" I mean, this is the third biggest city in America, with a significant minority community and heavily scrutinized political system. If this city has yet to institute any sort of meaningful system for investigating and overseeing police officers in cases where *deadly force is used,* how can anyone say that police forces all over the country are moving forward and implementing new ways of policing themselves? On a different note, I love the "until you wear the badge and walk the streets with your life blah blah blah whine whine" canard. My response is always, "until you've been harrassed and abused and beaten and demeaned by police most of your life because of where you live or the color of your skin...." Shouldn’t the title of this post be “Scalia’s New Professionalism? Part 3,465,262?”

I mean, this is the third biggest city in America, with a significant minority community and heavily scrutinized political system. If this city has yet to institute any sort of meaningful system for investigating and overseeing police officers in cases where *deadly force is used,* how can anyone say that police forces all over the country are moving forward and implementing new ways of policing themselves?

On a different note, I love the “until you wear the badge and walk the streets with your life blah blah blah whine whine” canard. My response is always, “until you’ve been harrassed and abused and beaten and demeaned by police most of your life because of where you live or the color of your skin….”

]]> By: Chris Grieb http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66322 Chris Grieb Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:13:25 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66322 I can't help but wonder how other police departments would do? I can’t help but wonder how other police departments would do?

]]> By: Michael http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66321 Michael Thu, 13 Dec 2007 21:02:59 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66321 And since the money comes from the taxpayers, they should have a lot to say come election time! If they do not, it is their own fault! Corruption is not acceptable at any level! And since the money comes from the taxpayers, they should have a lot to say come election time! If they do not, it is their own fault! Corruption is not acceptable at any level!

]]> By: Leshrac http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66308 Leshrac Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:43:38 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66308 "Cops can't be criminals, it's not in the DNA" should be a new slogan for their IA section. “Cops can’t be criminals, it’s not in the DNA” should be a new slogan for their IA section.

]]> By: Mitchell http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66299 Mitchell Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:29:27 +0000 http://www.theagitator.com/2007/12/13/want-to-get-away-with-murder-in-chicago/#comment-66299 "That suit resulted in a $4 million settlement from the city." ... in fact that money comes from the taxpayers. “That suit resulted in a $4 million settlement from the city.” … in fact that money comes from the taxpayers.

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