TheAgitator.com
To Catch a Petty Thief
Monday, December 3rd, 2007Police in New York City are leaving baited wallets and purses around the city, then arresting people who pick them up and walk by a police officer without turning them over. If the wallet or purse contains a credit card, the thief/possible-good-Samaritan could get four years in state prison. Never mind that walking past a police officer with found property isn’t even a crime.
…more than half of those 220 involved people with no prior criminal record. In dismissing one case, a Brooklyn judge noted that the law gives people 10 days to turn in property they find, and suggested the city had enough real crime for the police to fight without any need to provide fresh temptations. The penal law also does not require that found items be turned over to a police officer.
I’m sure the traps do catch some bona-fide petty thieves, too. But damn. Is NYC so safe now that the police have nothing better to do than create crime?
Also, while talking about this case with some friends the other night, the question of a "reverse sting" came up. That is, if someone were to come up with a scheme whereby 10 or 20 "found" wallets with cash and decoy IDs inside were turned over to random NYC cops on patrol, how many would end up back in the hands of their rightful owners? My guess is very few. Not necessarily because the cops would steal them. More because they’d likely get lost in the NYPD bureaucracy. Point is, maybe quite a few people arrested in this dumb waste of law enforcement resources thought they’d have better luck trying to get the purses and wallets back to their owners on their own.
MORE: Good point in the comments section. In the post 9/11, “watch for suspicious items” age of terror, is it really a good idea for the police to be leaving unattended bags laying around?
Seems to me, the random purse left behind in a busy pedestrian area could contain an I.E.D. Or are we done being overly cautious now that the great war is over? Government can now redirect all that new found power back on us.
Instead of petty theft, police should refocus on terrorist activities. Meaning cops should leave suspicious looking blinking cartoon faces around the city and arresting anyone who doesn’t immediately call 911 to report them. Police yelling at the business man walking down the street: “Hey, you! You were told to report anything suspicious. You are either with us or against us. You make me sick! Your under arrest.”
The reverse sting sounds great. That would be a great subject for a reality crime show. Only the chance of a dirty police officer being prosecuted for such a petty crime would be low.
Maybe we can have Chris Hanson and NBC run the reverse sting.
“Why don’t you come and have a seat.”
Of course it’s fine for police to leave unattended bags lying around -as long as they packed their own bags, per FAA regulations. (Or if, like George Carlin, Carrot Top packed their bags for them.)
Just call Homeland security and report suspicious packages in the subway. After a few massive responses by the government for nothing, that should nip this in the bud.
I agree and I would bet most NYC cops would agree with yours and the judges assesment. It’s a waste of time, unlike the old subway stings of a sleeping man(cop) with th enice watch on.
The bags of course are not unattended they are being watched.
As far as reverse stings on cops. It has been done numerous times by local groups, local media and recently by I think 48 Hours. In all cases the money was all acounted for and vouchered as per procedure. So, I don’ t think it would be too much fun for your friend since he would not get the results he wants.
When there is ID most cops(in NYC) get the property to the owner that day.
Marty: Isn’t there a level of cash that police policy dictates should be immediately confiscated as drug assets, until the owner can PROVE his innocence?
Laws, policies, and procedures requiring officers to commit theft, make it impossible for any to remain “good” AND employed.
I’m surprised that these bozos didn’t go for the gold, and try to get the FBI to put an online retail front-end on its kiddie porn evidence archives… I mean, if they’re going to commit systematic entrapment, they should at least go for the one segment that most people wouldn’t give a bloody hoot if they got entrapped. Petty thieves? The average shoplifter at the mall is a middle aged white woman who has the means to pay for what she has stolen. This operation would clearly hit too close to home with a big swat of the potential jurors.
Code there is no amount that I would not return if found on the street and with proper ID.
Now, If a person was seen handing crack to a 12 year old girl in exchange for money and the dealer was arrested and found to be with a large amount of money it is assmed to be proceeds from drug sales and invoiced as such. If not gulity of the charges then the money can be returned. I am not a support of the car DWI seisures nor with drugs but this is not immoral for a good cop.
Good to hear, but I believe police policy states otherwise, (which was my question).
As for your last sentence, when is theft not immoral?
I’ve found a wallet and two purses on the street, I got to a phone to try and track down the owner (don’t trust cops or store employees) and it worked out. Hard to believe you can get busted for that. RUDYS LEGACY….
code red: Perhaps you are thinking of Pedro Zapeta, the illegal immigrant who had money taken by government officials? He was leaving the country with $59,000. However, there is a law that amounts of money over $10,000 have to be declared with Customs. He did not declare this and it was confiscated. The story as reported by CNN can be found at http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/immigrant.money/index.html.
I am not aware of any laws or rules that state cash above a certain amount should be confiscated. If you find one, though, I would love a link or information on it so I don’t get busted carrying around $50k in my wallet ;) (I wish! re: having $50k in my wallet, NOT a wish to get busted for anything).
Sorry but on that previous post the period at the end of the sentence messes up the website address. For the CNN story try http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/27/immigrant.money/index.html
No, actually the story I was thinking was about the US truck driver. I don’t know about NYC but I’m sure they have similar asset seizure laws. Try this story for more:
http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=3384
Specifically, this paragraph:
“You’ll find no shortage of examples throughout the country. Two recent examples, chosen only because they’re so unremarkable, are as follows: in October 2006, two men driving through Davidson County, North Carolina, were stopped by sheriff’s deputies and found to have $88,000 hidden in their car. The men told the sheriffs they were on their way to buy a house in Atlanta. Although no drugs were found, the sheriffs confiscated the money anyway. And just last August, a truck driver at a weigh station in El Paso had $23,700 confiscated; once again, no drugs or contraband were found, but the cash led to an assumption of guilt.”
The article also tells us when the feds participate in stealing, “…the federal threshold is $2,000 for cash, $5,000 for cars.”
Still wondering when Marty’s department policy authorizes theft.
But, he’s one of the “good” ones that doesn’t participate in the stealing, (yet turns a blind-eye while his brothers do).
When is theft not immoral?
If I had been near this sting, I would have been arrested.
If I saw an abandoned purse or wallet, I would take it to prevent wrongdoing by miscreants and I would look for a lost and found, not a police officer. After all, who would want to burden a police officer with the task of returning a wallet, when the MTA surely has a lost and found system in place.
As for the “reverse sting”, I honestly doubt it would work well, but maybe that’s more evidence that it should be tried.
You vill behave the prescribed way or you vill be punished!
So much for spontaneous orginization. There is one and only one way to return a lost item and that is our way! What a pack of leaky anuses.
I’ve found numerous purses in my travels and the only ones I turned into the cops were those that were outside my usual travel radius. All the others I drove to house to drop it off. The same with lost dogs.
I totally fail to see the need to involve a bloated, inefficient, near useless bunch of gov employees in what is a routine matter.
why is anyone surprised? cops are, after all, just another kind of government employee. and, like all government employees, “preserving their jobs & sacred **pensions**” is and will always be job 1.
crime in NYC is way down, i hear – and yes, rudy DOES get the credit for that. (compare dinkins-era crime stats vs. today) but that means the NYPD might not require quite so *many* expensive cops, right?
so – like all gov’t employees – the cops start worrying about losing their jobs, because they don’t seem to be needed. what to do? what to do?? bureaucrats create new forms & procedures to administer. cops create new crimes to “solve”.
Well the cops are not afraid of losing theie jobs. The NYPD is about 5,000 short of what some think is the right level. And wanting to stay employed when you have a family is not such a bad thing.
Expensive cops???? If the money is so good why can’t they get people to take the job? Are they that upset about the state and liberty?
OKay let me explain why cops have to do these stings. Riders put down their bags on the seat next to them and they get up and leave the train. When it is relaized that the forgot their property they report it to the police.
The report is either Lost Property or since so many have credit cards Grand Larceny (a Felony) because somebody walked away with your unattended article.
So with a a few reports like this made it seems on paper that Felony Crime is up in the Subway. Looking at reports we see much of the Felony crime is Grand Larceny of unattened articles. So, the people want to know what is being done about the situation. Cops have to respond to the crime so the do the stings along with other operations that you did not see in the NY Time piece. Cops did not just decide to do this one moring this came from the people wanting to know what was being done.
Seems to me that if you leave your bag on a subway, you fucked up and if you never see it again, it is your problem and your fault. It seems a bit ridiculous that if someone loses a bag with a credit card in it it is considered grand larceny even if no one has fraudulently used that credit card. How do they know it didn’t fall on the tracks and get run over or something like that?
I would say the sting, while a good idea would likely prove fruitless. The group would likely need permits and every cop would get an Email to be aware of the group that is operating legally in their jurisdiction thus alerting any dirty blues to suspend their otherwise business as usual temporarily. I would also mention to Marty that the lack of full employment roster may also be that there are likely quite a few good people that understand how broken and nasty the system is in big cities and want no part of it. Can’t exactly “rat out your brothers” and retain your career for any length of time. I’m sure it it the job of last resort to more maladjusted social types than goo common folk. Why else all the job shuffling around? Heck, a lot of them could have been priests (hopefully minus the sexual proclivities).
but hey, why stop there? they could set up phony “starving beggars”! make them really pitiable kids; or pregnant babes with a black eye; or they could go old school and do a match girl, shoeless in the snow!
then, for those lawbreaking heartless dirtbags who aren’t charitable, they could bust them! “FREEZE, scrooge! get down on the ground!” (officer safety IS the most important thing in america, doncha know.)
they could have their own division! a $180K/year captain; a coupla $120K/year lieutenants; dozens of sergeants …. they could stock up on special military weaponry …. the possibilities are endless. better that than “making it seem on paper” that there’s a problem the bureaucrats …. er, “cops” have to answer for, right?
This is almost more like legislating morality or responsibility than preventing crime. A lot of people consider an abandoned piece of property fair game, but they would never otherwise rob or harm someone for their property. The people they are arresting may be selfish, but they are completely harmless non-criminals. I wonder how many real muggings and assaults are happening while they expend so much energy on this?
The USA welcomed the Nazis the wanted with open arms and it seems as if they are learning from them the ways of the SS.
In England a policeman was hacked to death on film because they had created so much hatred the perpetrators were never charged,this kind of behavior will cost police lives unless stopped.
POLICE NATIONWIDE, ESPECIALLY THE NYPD HAVE GOTTEN VERY GOOD AT STRETCHING THE LAW, SOMETIMES FLAT OUT BREAKING IT. ITS THAT OLD ” THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS ” ATTITUDE. AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE FAST LOSING MANY OF THE RIGHTS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED. LOOK AT THE EXAMPLE SET BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.WE ARE NOT AS FREE AS WE USED TO BE, AND THIS TREND SHOWS NO SIGN OF STOPPING ANY TIME SOON.
and again another example that this country is lost in crunching paper-trails and wasted resources. the total lack of forethought from the top down to district level. the sickening distant from normal civil order is beyond reasoning