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	<title>Comments on: In Which I (Finally) Embrace the Commerce Clause</title>
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	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: poker rooms</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50582</link>
		<dc:creator>poker rooms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 08:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: buy digital cameras</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50580</link>
		<dc:creator>buy digital cameras</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2004 23:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: KipEsquire</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50579</link>
		<dc:creator>KipEsquire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2004 23:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bruce writes: &quot;It has been used to justify ... forcing a 55mph speed limit on the entire country.&quot;

Wrong.

That comes via the Spending Clause, through which Congress bribes the States with federal highway money if and only if they adopt certain standards.  See also, &quot;Click It or Ticket&quot; and the brouhaha (sp?) over requiring colleges to allow ROTC recruiters on their campuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce writes: &#8220;It has been used to justify &#8230; forcing a 55mph speed limit on the entire country.&#8221;</p>
<p>Wrong.</p>
<p>That comes via the Spending Clause, through which Congress bribes the States with federal highway money if and only if they adopt certain standards.  See also, &#8220;Click It or Ticket&#8221; and the brouhaha (sp?) over requiring colleges to allow ROTC recruiters on their campuses.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50578</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Commerce Clause, while short, is one of the most powerful federal powers in the Constitution.  Maybe THE most powerful.  It has been used to justify everything from striking down interstate trade tariffs to forcing a 55mph speed limit on the entire country. And the Supreme Court has rarely circumscribed Congressional authority in this area.  Even the most remote and imaginary connection to &quot;commerce&quot; enables the US Congress to invade our lives in pretty much any manner they chose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Commerce Clause, while short, is one of the most powerful federal powers in the Constitution.  Maybe THE most powerful.  It has been used to justify everything from striking down interstate trade tariffs to forcing a 55mph speed limit on the entire country. And the Supreme Court has rarely circumscribed Congressional authority in this area.  Even the most remote and imaginary connection to &#8220;commerce&#8221; enables the US Congress to invade our lives in pretty much any manner they chose.</p>
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		<title>By: Sternn</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50577</link>
		<dc:creator>Sternn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 17:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The commerce clause isn&#039;t only about interstate trade, but also international trade. A proper use for it on that level would be for congress to regulate the difference in prices of prescription drugs. Pass a law stating that US drug companies can&#039;t sell drugs to other countries for less than they sell them at home. Then we won&#039;t have issues like reimporting them from Canada anbd probably wouldn&#039;t need the recent $550 billion per year prescription drug benefit package.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The commerce clause isn&#8217;t only about interstate trade, but also international trade. A proper use for it on that level would be for congress to regulate the difference in prices of prescription drugs. Pass a law stating that US drug companies can&#8217;t sell drugs to other countries for less than they sell them at home. Then we won&#8217;t have issues like reimporting them from Canada anbd probably wouldn&#8217;t need the recent $550 billion per year prescription drug benefit package.</p>
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		<title>By: Da Chronic</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50576</link>
		<dc:creator>Da Chronic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Here&#039;s a little history on alcohol direct shipping: 

Many states tried in vain to restrict the distribution of alcohol in the latter part of the 19th century. They came up against a Supreme Court that repeatedly held that the dormant commerce clause restricted the power of states to prohibit various forms of alcohol distribution. The states would then lobby congress to pass various laws aimed at mitigating the effect of the dormant commerce clause on state alcohol legislation. Each time a new federal law would be passed, alcohol distributors would find a loophole through which they could distribute alcohol with the imprimatur of the dormant commerce clause. 

In Rhodes v. Iowa (1898), the Supreme Court struck down an Iowa law that attempted to prohibit mail order shipments of alcohol. As a result, Congress passed the Webb-Kenyon Act, which prohibited the importation of alcohol into a state in violation of such state&#039;s law. The language of the Webb-Kenyon Act eventually became, after the failure of prohibition, the model for Section 2 of the 21st Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits the &quot;transportation or importation into any State ... for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof....&quot;

The plain language of the 21st Amendment clearly grants the States the latitude to pass laws restricting the importation of alcohol. The Supreme Court held as much in its original interpretation of the matter in State Board of Equalization v. Young&#039;s Market Co. (1936), in which Justice Brandeis, writing for the majority, scoffed at the notion that the States were limited in their authority to regulate the importation and distribution of alcohol. 

The Institute for Justice is taking the position that a judicially-created constitutional doctrine, the dormant commerce clause, trumps an express constitutional provision that was enacted with the aim of mitigating the effect of that very same judicially-created constitutional doctrine. This is a curious position to say the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a little history on alcohol direct shipping: </p>
<p>Many states tried in vain to restrict the distribution of alcohol in the latter part of the 19th century. They came up against a Supreme Court that repeatedly held that the dormant commerce clause restricted the power of states to prohibit various forms of alcohol distribution. The states would then lobby congress to pass various laws aimed at mitigating the effect of the dormant commerce clause on state alcohol legislation. Each time a new federal law would be passed, alcohol distributors would find a loophole through which they could distribute alcohol with the imprimatur of the dormant commerce clause. </p>
<p>In Rhodes v. Iowa (1898), the Supreme Court struck down an Iowa law that attempted to prohibit mail order shipments of alcohol. As a result, Congress passed the Webb-Kenyon Act, which prohibited the importation of alcohol into a state in violation of such state&#8217;s law. The language of the Webb-Kenyon Act eventually became, after the failure of prohibition, the model for Section 2 of the 21st Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits the &#8220;transportation or importation into any State &#8230; for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>The plain language of the 21st Amendment clearly grants the States the latitude to pass laws restricting the importation of alcohol. The Supreme Court held as much in its original interpretation of the matter in State Board of Equalization v. Young&#8217;s Market Co. (1936), in which Justice Brandeis, writing for the majority, scoffed at the notion that the States were limited in their authority to regulate the importation and distribution of alcohol. </p>
<p>The Institute for Justice is taking the position that a judicially-created constitutional doctrine, the dormant commerce clause, trumps an express constitutional provision that was enacted with the aim of mitigating the effect of that very same judicially-created constitutional doctrine. This is a curious position to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50575</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 02:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Another of several reasons (aside, you know, the &quot;reading the plain language&quot; one) I don&#039;t go along with Radley&#039;s narrow reading (mine&#039;s also narrow, but not AS narrow) of the commerce clause is that, at least arguably, the things he sees as within the proper scope of its power grant are actually redundant: between the &quot;dormant&quot; commerce clause and the 14th amendment, the kinds of commercial discrimination he describes are unconstitutional without any congressional action whatever.  I could site a whole slew of Supreme Court cases striking down capricious restrictions on out of state shrimping boats and whatnot... Anyway, the upshot is, it&#039;s contrary to any reasonable interpretive strategy to read a clause phrased as a power grant as granting the power only to affirm the illegality of state laws already prohibited by the constitution. (Indeed, one of the best arguments for not reading the CC as including manufacture, advanced in a seminal paper by Richard Epstein, relies on precisely this principle)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another of several reasons (aside, you know, the &#8220;reading the plain language&#8221; one) I don&#8217;t go along with Radley&#8217;s narrow reading (mine&#8217;s also narrow, but not AS narrow) of the commerce clause is that, at least arguably, the things he sees as within the proper scope of its power grant are actually redundant: between the &#8220;dormant&#8221; commerce clause and the 14th amendment, the kinds of commercial discrimination he describes are unconstitutional without any congressional action whatever.  I could site a whole slew of Supreme Court cases striking down capricious restrictions on out of state shrimping boats and whatnot&#8230; Anyway, the upshot is, it&#8217;s contrary to any reasonable interpretive strategy to read a clause phrased as a power grant as granting the power only to affirm the illegality of state laws already prohibited by the constitution. (Indeed, one of the best arguments for not reading the CC as including manufacture, advanced in a seminal paper by Richard Epstein, relies on precisely this principle)</p>
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		<title>By: Jon H</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50574</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Oh, BTW. I&#039;m really just commenting on the &quot;all to the benefit of consumers&quot; part.

As with any legislation, especially legislation which stands to make people very rich, it can have very nasty effects which don&#039;t bear much resemblance to the glories and miracles that were promised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, BTW. I&#8217;m really just commenting on the &#8220;all to the benefit of consumers&#8221; part.</p>
<p>As with any legislation, especially legislation which stands to make people very rich, it can have very nasty effects which don&#8217;t bear much resemblance to the glories and miracles that were promised.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon H</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50573</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;Freeing consumers to purchase health insurance from anywhere in the country would force the states to compete to keep insurers (and their tax dollars) incorporated within their borders. It would in effect create 50 competing markets for health insurance -- all to the benefit of consumers.&quot;

I&#039;d have to disagree with that.

Far more likely, it&#039;d work like credit cards. Card issuers flock to states which have modified their usury laws to raise the maximum interest rates that can be charged to customers.

That definitely isn&#039;t to the benefit of consumers. (It seems short-sighted for the bank, as well, seeing as how jacking up rates must surely push people toward filing for bankruptcy. Thus the banks&#039; interest in bankruptcy &#039;reform&#039;, so they cut their risk incurred by making bad loans, while maximizing income from debtors.)

States may create an environment that makes it possible for insurance companies to offer low rates, but they will also pass laws making it easy for insurers to make life hell for their customers. The insurers will do that at the first opportunity.

Customers would have little defense, since people have almost zero leverage, at least in the case of medical coverage.

In theory, yes, states could create a regulatory environment that lowers costs for insurance companies, and the companies could pass those costs on to the customers.

In reality, based on observations of real-world behavior of such companies, I think they&#039;ll pocket the savings and consumers will take it in the ass. Hard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Freeing consumers to purchase health insurance from anywhere in the country would force the states to compete to keep insurers (and their tax dollars) incorporated within their borders. It would in effect create 50 competing markets for health insurance &#8212; all to the benefit of consumers.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d have to disagree with that.</p>
<p>Far more likely, it&#8217;d work like credit cards. Card issuers flock to states which have modified their usury laws to raise the maximum interest rates that can be charged to customers.</p>
<p>That definitely isn&#8217;t to the benefit of consumers. (It seems short-sighted for the bank, as well, seeing as how jacking up rates must surely push people toward filing for bankruptcy. Thus the banks&#8217; interest in bankruptcy &#8216;reform&#8217;, so they cut their risk incurred by making bad loans, while maximizing income from debtors.)</p>
<p>States may create an environment that makes it possible for insurance companies to offer low rates, but they will also pass laws making it easy for insurers to make life hell for their customers. The insurers will do that at the first opportunity.</p>
<p>Customers would have little defense, since people have almost zero leverage, at least in the case of medical coverage.</p>
<p>In theory, yes, states could create a regulatory environment that lowers costs for insurance companies, and the companies could pass those costs on to the customers.</p>
<p>In reality, based on observations of real-world behavior of such companies, I think they&#8217;ll pocket the savings and consumers will take it in the ass. Hard.</p>
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		<title>By: James D</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50572</link>
		<dc:creator>James D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>As an Arizonan, I guess I should be proud of Shadegg ... I like the sound of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an Arizonan, I guess I should be proud of Shadegg &#8230; I like the sound of that.</p>
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		<title>By: KipEsquire</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2004/06/24/in-which-i-finally-embrace-the-commerce-clause/comment-page-1/#comment-50571</link>
		<dc:creator>KipEsquire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=4271#comment-50571</guid>
		<description>While I agree with Radley&#039;s end goal (and his antipathy toward the Commerce Clause), his analysis earns a gentleman&#039;s C at best.

The Commerce Clause, unfortunately, says what it says -- namely that Congress may &quot;regulate Commerce ... among the several States&quot; -- PERIOD!  If it&#039;s interstate commerce, Congress can regulate it -- PERIOD (subject only to other Constitutional limitations -- more on this below!).  There&#039;s simply no &quot;discrimination against out-of-state commerce&quot; in the equation (unfortunately).

I think our noble host may be confusing the Commerce Clause with Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1, Privileges and Immunities, which addresses how a State may treat in-state and out-of-state people and activities differently.

Also, please re-read (we all read the entire Constitution at least once a year, don&#039;t we?) Section 2 of the Twenty-First Amendment.  Alcohol is NOT the battlefield upon which to fight this (very good) fight.

And another thing, since when are libertarians &quot;original intent&quot; legal theorists?  I think most libertarian causes (if not this particular one) are far more easily supported by &quot;plain language&quot; analysis than by &quot;original intent&quot; ... but&#039;s that a whole other thread...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with Radley&#8217;s end goal (and his antipathy toward the Commerce Clause), his analysis earns a gentleman&#8217;s C at best.</p>
<p>The Commerce Clause, unfortunately, says what it says &#8212; namely that Congress may &#8220;regulate Commerce &#8230; among the several States&#8221; &#8212; PERIOD!  If it&#8217;s interstate commerce, Congress can regulate it &#8212; PERIOD (subject only to other Constitutional limitations &#8212; more on this below!).  There&#8217;s simply no &#8220;discrimination against out-of-state commerce&#8221; in the equation (unfortunately).</p>
<p>I think our noble host may be confusing the Commerce Clause with Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1, Privileges and Immunities, which addresses how a State may treat in-state and out-of-state people and activities differently.</p>
<p>Also, please re-read (we all read the entire Constitution at least once a year, don&#8217;t we?) Section 2 of the Twenty-First Amendment.  Alcohol is NOT the battlefield upon which to fight this (very good) fight.</p>
<p>And another thing, since when are libertarians &#8220;original intent&#8221; legal theorists?  I think most libertarian causes (if not this particular one) are far more easily supported by &#8220;plain language&#8221; analysis than by &#8220;original intent&#8221; &#8230; but&#8217;s that a whole other thread&#8230;</p>
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