Comments on: Seen in the window of my new favorite neighborhood bar…

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 04 Jun 2004 20:01:05 +0000

The author “well…” posted:

“cancer is a modern industrialized society disease…you don’t see indigenous people with our cancer rates.”

Main point: cancer generally takes time to develop, which is only possible in a society with comparatively long life spans. Which would you prefer…a society with a life expectancy of 80+ years with a positive (but low) cancer rate, or a society with a life expectancy of 35 years with a zero cancer rate?

Side Point: Don’t say “indigenous” when you mean “primitive.” By any reasonable definition of the word I am “indigenous” to New York City, and I don’t think you talking about me.

By: Andrew Ian Dodge

Andrew Ian Dodge — Fri, 04 Jun 2004 10:57:38 +0000

To each is own. You don’t like cigarettes, don’t go to a bloody bar that allows smoking!

I don’t smoke cigarettes but I loath sterile bars that don’t allow smoking. There is a lack of ambiance I find unappealling.

I find most of the idiots really pushing for smoking bands don’t go to bars anyway.

By: Mike Farrell

Mike Farrell — Fri, 04 Jun 2004 08:43:36 +0000

I’m a smoker, and have been smoking before most of you were born. I’ve quit several times, once for about six months. Each time I started again it was because I enjoy about five cigarettes a day; after a good meal, with a contemplative cup of coffee, and relaxing after sex. The other daily pack and a half is to satisfy habit or addiction. I learned that even with the best of intentions, I could not stop at four or five a day.

Even during my “quitting times” I preferred the company of smokers, and would sit in the “smoking sections”. I remember several, where the air was so dense, I thought if I would flap my arms, I could fly across the room.

During those “dry” periods, I could tell the diference in a “non-smoker’s’ house or car.

My experiences have taught me to be sensitive to the legitimate needs and feelings of those I come in contact with.

A non-smoking “friend” should therefore understand my need to step outside for a cigarette.

On the other hand, objections to my smoking at an outdoor bar-b-q party IS a little too much.

By: supergenius

supergenius — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:36:09 +0000

slightly OT:

Does anyone have any stats on whether businesses have lost money due to the smoking bans? It was a major issue before the bans were enacted…just curious.
Maybe those going to Dive75 can ask the owner?

By: Dan

Dan — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:21:44 +0000

Shirley,
Couldn’t let your comments slide. I won’t get into the smoking ban, but the epidemiology of lung cancer has been very well studied. You’re correct, not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, and not everyone who has lung cancer was a smoker. However, the relative risk of lung cancer is some 12 to 20 times higher in smokers than in nonsmokers. And nonsmokers who live or work in a smoking environment are observed to experience a 30 to 50 percent elevated risk for lung cancer. Given, correlation does not establish causality, but, hey, these observations are not insignificant.

By: well...

well... — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 23:17:18 +0000

cancer is a modern industrialized society disease…you don’t see indigenous people with our cancer rates.

By: Ms. Dani

Ms. Dani — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:16:17 +0000

I saw a small bit of a news-story segment last night on a prime time station (CBS at 9pm). It was about a woman who had run high school and college track, never smoked, and now has lung cancer. They and she, are blaming it on second-hand smoke from her parents… for crying out loud. Where is the proof? There is none.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 19:53:26 +0000

I feel horrible now. I was in the city last week and walked by this bar while looking for a sports bar to watch the game. I was about to walk in and a friend told me to go to another bar around the corner.

Man, am I bummed now. Rock on freedom loving smokers!

By: Shirley Knott

Shirley Knott — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 19:35:57 +0000

Dear me,
Please understand that you could have been hermetically sealed into a pure-environment enclosure at birth and STILL wind up dying of lung cancer.
To the infinite regret of the anti-smoking crowd, it is not the case that 100% of all lung cancer is caused by smoking or exposure to second-hand smoke. Doesn’t stop them from lying about it, but it remains the case — lung cancer killed before tobacco was known and will kill long after the last smoker has been shuffled off to the gulag.

Shirley Knott

By: me

me — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 19:01:56 +0000

although im all for personal liberties and rights and everything, i’d also rather not die of cancer when im 60 when i never took a single puff. think of someone besides yourself, don’t be so selfish every day of your lives. most smokers regret that they actually do smoke but they can’t quit, don’t make someone else suffer for your mistakes.

By: Evan Williams

Evan Williams — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 17:24:05 +0000

How dare you people question the ultimate knowledge of the government! It’s obvious that elected representatives know what the people want better than the people themselves.

By: msc

msc — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 16:27:57 +0000

Damn I wish I wasn’t in California, where smoke nazis have control of everything. EVERYTHING!

By: scottp

scottp — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:40:53 +0000

Absolutely correct. And all of you second hand smoke nazis can get bent.

By: Say Anything

Say Anything — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:40:07 +0000

Sign In A Bar

A sign found in a New York bar, via The Agitator: I think that about sums it up. The bar is called Dive 75. Here’s the address if you’re in the New York area and want to stop in. 101…

By: Ben

Ben — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:38:22 +0000

I’ll be sure to give them some patronage this weekend.

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 15:32:58 +0000

Right On!