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That’s Why They Call Them “Idiot” Lights
Thursday, April 29th, 2004I have a 2001 Alero. It’s a great car. I love it. It’s been problem-free, save for an odd glitch in the air conditioning/heating fan.
But at the moment, my dashboard has three idiot lights illuminated — “change oil,” “service engine soon,” and “check tire pressure.” I got my oil changed two weeks ago. Tire pressure is fine. The car runs fine, so I’m guessing there’s nothing really wrong with the engine, either. The lights in fact go on and off all the time. The “change oil” light came on immediately after I got my oil changed.
What’s frustrating is that if there was something wrong with my car, and one of these lights came on to let me know about it, I’d ignore the light because of all the damn false alarms I get. Which means the warning lights are now pretty much useless.
This isn’t Oldsmobile’s fault. It is, as you might guess, the federal government’s — specifically DOT and EPA. The government has coaxed (usually under threat of massive fines or lawsuits) the major auto manufacturers into making idiot lights extra sensitive. Just about anything can trip them off.
Why, you ask? Environmental regulations.
Low tire pressure and travelling too many miles without an oil change hamper fuel efficiency. So the government wants to make sure you’re getting these things checked regularly, whether or not there’s an actual problem. More nefariously, in the late 1990s, the EPA began suing auto companies to force them to program vehicle notification systems into setting off the “check engine soon” light — for the sole purpose of tricking car owners into getting their emissions checked on a regular basis. Pre-programmed oversensitivity causes 99% of drivers to get a false warning light within the first 10,000 miles traveled in a new car.
So once-useful technology auto manufacturers originally installed to warn drivers about potential car problems has been co-opted by federal bureaucrats, and rendered pretty much useless. Thank God regulators are looking out for us.
More on this in James DeLong’s book Out of Bounds, Out of Control.
Oldsmobile? That last one rolled off the assembly line this week…probably would have been better if it drove off the assembly line.
To add to your comments on idiot lights, my Service Engine, Low-water and sometimes Low-Oil lights come on and for no reason. Incidentally, my low-water light came on directly after I had the water pump and hoses changed. The water is not low.
The idiocy in this whole thing is that in Houston, when you take your car to an inspector and the Service Engine light is on, they immediately Fail your car and subsequently make you pay for the entire inspection. Therefore, no inspection sticker, no compliance with the law and no way to fix it without spending a gazillion dollars. What is a girl to do? (sigh)
Lat year, when I took it to be inspected, the Service Engine light went off THAT DAY, and then came back on the next. That’s how I know there is a God (ok, I’m being facetious). But so far this year the light has stayed on. I’ve been driving around with expired inspection. If you guys don’t read any comments from Ms Dani for about a week, it’s probably because I’m in the slammer! Me? A criminal??? Sheesh.
Hey Radley, the oil light is usually set on a timer against your odometer. Go 5000 miles, it sets off the timer (at least with my car it’s like that). When they change the oil, they are supposed to hit the reset switch so that the counter goes back to zero. The oil guy must have forgot.
As capo mentioned, the ‘oil change’ light probably just wasn’t reset. Same with the ‘tire pressure’ light. The instructions should be easily found in your manual.
The ’service engine’ light could be something as simple as your gas cap. Is it on correctly?
I get the same with my Ford.
Low water light is always on,
and check engine has been on for a long time. When I took to dealear to get checked, the service manager asked if it was running ok. It was and he said to just ignore the lights unless there was a noticable problem with the vehicle.
Used to own an Alero. The oil reset light button is in the fuse area on drivers side. Must push oil reset button for 30 seconds. Will be reset.
And I’m sure that the car dealers love this situation too. You drive your car onto their lot, and you automatically have to take out a second mortgage. Couple this with a recent report that, since cars are getting so technologically “advanced”, and repair costs are skyrocketing, that more and more cars are getting “totalled”.
My fiancee took her car to the dealer to get a state inspection (she had a coupon for a “free” inspection) yesterday. They cam back telling her she needed new brake pads and new wiper blades. Her Rav4 has 35,000 miles on it, so brake pads, maybe. But, of course, this is a great big ol’ racket. They get you in there for an “inspection”, then make you replace a bunch of crap. The wiper blades were the real zinger. We just replaced those blades a month ago, and there hasn’t been any bad weather, so there is no way, short of defective blades or vandalism, that those blades needed replacing. They wanted $25 to replace her month-old blades, and she called them on it. They called back awhile later saying that they were mistaken, and only one needed to be replaced because “it was cracked”, and they wouldn’t charge her labor. I guess this is what happens when they get caught in the middle of their racket. I think that brake pad replacement is standard fare for state inspections around here. Last time I took my car in, they said the same thing. Next time I need new pads, I’m going to replace them myself, then take my car to get inspected the next week. I would love for them to tell me I need new pads.
But I digress…
This “boy who cried wolf” warning light phenomenon happened in my fiancee’s rav4 too. With less than 10,000 miles, the check engine light came on. She freaked out, took it in, and they said it was just an oversensitive meter. Just like Radley’s Alero. Hell, I used to have an old ‘86 volvo, and it had a yellow “emissions” light (it was just some weird little logo). I asked a mechanic one time, what it meant. He said the gov’t made them put it in. Regardless of performance, it automatically lights up @ 85,000 miles, then you have to take it in to a volvo dealer (yay, another mortgage!), they check your emissions, then turn it off. Bloody racket!
I have 5500 miles on my Forester…no lights so far. We’ll see how it goes. Funny thing is, I keep getting letters from Subaru of America and the dealer, telling me that I’m overdue for my 3750 mi. oil change. Ha. Yeah, I’m gonna get the dealer to change my oil and fill it up with regular 5w-30, for $35…when I can do it myself for $20, and get full syn. Don’t think so.
I don’t even want to see what happens when these new hybrids start needing alot of work. Sad thing is, your local garage won’t touch those things…and what’s worse, alot of times, hybrid or not, the dealers won’t give up their electronics codes, so they retain a monopoly on any repairs having to do with electronics. Sickening.
here is a great drinking game: Next time you take a cab to a bar count the number of “idot” lites on in the cab, that is the number of shots you have to do… if the cabbie uses something to cover one or more of the lights up… double it.
I have only been in a cab once that did not have at least one light on.
Synchronicity
I am taking my Rav4 in this afternoon to get some sensors fixed on the ol’ catalytic converter which I found out about after the “check engine” light came on a prodded me to take it in. In this case I do not think that it is a racket: the warranty is covering it so nothing comes out of my pocket except the waste of an afternoon waiting on the car.
“Why, you ask? Environmental regulations.”
Yes, this is the same reason the Oldsmobile you paid $5,000. for in 1973 now costs $50,000.
Here in Ohio the state has another scam called E-Check. You have to pay $20. every other year to get the emissions checked on your car. If it fails, you have to go get it fixed so it meets the “standards.”
If your car is older, and you can’t pass, you can get a “waiver” if you can show you spent more than $300. to get it fixed trying to meet standards.
I call it a tax on people who can’t afford a new car.
Come on, guys! Get yourself better cars! All these false alarms are just the results of firmware glitches or poorly set up sensors.
I’ve been driving my ES300 for 39 months without any idiot lights liting up (changed oil every 5000 miles). My current car, XC70, had not a single oil change in 5 months (scheduled by 9000 miles), and all the lights are off.
I think this kind of whinning doesn’t do any good to the case of libertarianism, Radley.
Thank God here in Florida the governer once had to have his vehicle inspected (pre JEB) and found it such a waste of time that the repealed the inspections. Of course there are more cars abandoned by the side of the road than in anyother state I drive in…
Fil, that’s nice. My leather-clad LT1-pushin’ Formula was one year old and had 9000 miles on it when I bought it. The Service Engine light came on after the first car-wash, so shutchyo pie-hole. Please say you were just being funny.
I have never heard of a car’s odometer being sync’ed with a check engine light. It certainly has never been that way with any car I have ever owned. I have gone well past the mileage for scheduled oil changes and not seen any lights come on.
I drive a 2000 GMC Jimmy with 140,000 miles and counting on it. Yes, that’s 140,000 miles in less than 5 years.
My engine lights have never come on except for a few hours after I had my fuel pump and filter replaced which is perfectly normal.
I have the same problem with my Saab. It’s gotten to the point where I just don’t bother with the Check Engine light anymore. As Saab explained it, the problem is the emission system — a repair that can run over $1,000. And a repair that has nothing to do with the actual functioning of the car.
I don’t have any false alarm idiot lights, but I do have an idiot light on my ‘98 Wrangler that tells me when to shift!.
Something tells me that if you need prompting, you probably have no business driving a manual.
Funny thing is, if one actually followed the light’s advice (I’m guessing it’s designed to maximize fuel efficiency), they probably wouldn’t be able to merge onto a highway safely.
So…when did these lights become so misleading? Recently?
Yeah, I don’t have a great new car or anythin’ special. But I sure don’t have any pesky light problems either.
Of course, I change the oil myself on a regular basis.
Seems like once a month w/ all the driving I gotta do in S. Cali.
-melissa
Ironically, the final Oldsmobile Alero, the final Oldsmobile EVER rolled off the assembly line today.
I think your point about how a once useful idea has become useless is well-taken.
The strange thing for me is that I have a “service engine soon” light in my 1987 Chevy Cavalier that I never saw come on until recently and only after I’d had the car serviced. The car has only 75,000 miles on it.
The light now comes on intermittently, sometimes not at all, sometimes for extended period, sometime for a few seconds but then off for the rest of the trip.
So now I just ignore it, perhaps at my own peril.
My “service engine” light came on a few weeks ago for my ‘96 SVX. I took it to my local mechanic who specializes in Subarus, and he reset it at no charge. Of course, it helps that they aren’t affiliated with Subaru, and that I’ve taken the car there ever since I bought it. I took it to the dealer for the first oil change, and haven’t taken it back to them since.
Wait a minute. You’re not saying that there are government regulations that are counterproductive, are you? I thought regulators were smarter than everyone else.
I got caught by this recently. When I bought my used car, it had an intermittent problem with the tachometer reading. It would work perfectly for months on end, then sporadically begin jumping wildly (a loose electrical connection was thought to be the problem). The owner of the car before me had taken it to a mechanic would searched high and low for the problem but could not find it. As it did not really affect normal driving at all, I accepted it as a personality quirk.
Each mechanic I took it to over the course of regular maintanence told me exactly the same thing–they could dismantle the entire car hunting for the loose connection without much of hope of finding it. So they let it go, and so I did.
Until I moved to California. In order to register my car, I have to have a smog inspection. And despite being one of the least polluting cars on the market at the time of its manufacture, if ANY diagnostic warning is signalled by the engine, it is an AUTOMATIC smog failure. So, first smog check FAILS.
Knowing that the problem was just a simple tachometer cable connection somewhere, I told the mechanic this. He told me I could apply for a waiver which is almost never granted, because the repairs could cost an extravagant amount of money. Or, he volunteered to look for the problem. Fuck that, I thought, and walked out.
So a couple weeks later I went to another mechanic. I asked if they could reset the trouble code on the computer and then run the diagnostic. This guy went almost ballistic. That is not only illegal, but he pointed out that if I were an undercover INSPECTOR of the STATE, he’d face a $1500 fine plus his mechanic would have his license revoked on the second infraction!
So now I was forced to pay for the full diganostic tests. And the problem turned out to be with the ignition coil, that had to be replaced. And of course, about $200 later, I finally got my smog check passed–WITHOUT any actual repairs to the car that affect its emissions!
dvision - Thats why you have to know the law breakin’ mechanics out here. Sniff around, you’ll find them eventually.
Awe, c’mon. The government doesn’t make them check your tire pressure. It is in fact an Oldsmobile problem.
I have an ‘03 VW Golf TDI, no idiot lights on (despite an extensive set of them for everything including the glow plugs), no tire pressure sensors, 41k miles. Has the gov’t failed to “coax” VW into compliance? Unlikely, given that there are no American voting constituencies affected by imposed regulations. VW chose to invest in a drivetrain that works efficiently rather than feel-good instrument clusters that do nothing to improve actual performance.
A previous ‘87 VW Jetta I owned had an oxygen sensor light that came on every 15k miles. If I hadn’t hit a deer, it was well on its way to a 12th reset with no other non-driver-induced problems. The dealer told me they don’t bother changing the sensor, so I didn’t. I found out later how to reset it myself (recessed button, hidden behind the brake fluid).
In fact, I would find a good newsgroup where people post answers to these questions. Unfortunately, there probably aren’t many Alero “tuners” out there, so it may be a futile effort.
Despite changing their ways after the Japanese influx, the American automobile industry is still uncompetitive because the safety regulation testing requirements form a barrier to entry to smaller innovators. They looked at the Japanese and Korean competition and decided that American consumers want cheap cars, so they churn out cheap crap. VW markets heavily in European markets where only the upper middle class can afford to drive automobiles. As a result, they sell somewhat expensive cars (for their target American consumers) that work rather well (because their European customers could just as easily afford Volvos, Saabs, and Audis), are a favorite of local tuners, and therefore you can find lots of information about them that the dealers’ service departments would rather you didn’t.
“So…when did these lights become so misleading? Recently?”
I think it’s merely an issue of technology mystifying people a little bit more…people knowing less about their cars, as their cars become more advanced.
But the idea is nothing new. As I mentioned above, my ‘86 Volvo had an emissions light that came on @ 85,000 miles. Nothing actually wrong, they just want you to check it. And what’s more, it didn’t actually SAY “emissions check” or “check engine”. It wa sjust this odd cryptic symbol…maybe it meant something in Sweden, but not to me.
My friend used to drive an ‘83 Prelude. It had an analog version of this, very simplistic. In fact, there were 3 little tabs behind his cluster glass, near the odo. One was for the oil change, the other for the air filter change, and the third was something else. They all read “green”. But after a certain number of miles, one would flip over and read “red”. The idea, I gather, was that you took your car into the dealer to take care of the issues. I mean, by itself, it’s not a bad feature. So, the thing turns red every 3500 miles, reminding you change your oil. The only problem was, the honda people must have (incorrectly) guessed that nobody, other than their dealer mechanics, would figure out how to reset these tabs. In fact, all it took was a nail file or knife.
These days, though, it’s different. To get it to turn off, you HAVE to go to the dealer…which is all well and good if you’re under warranty. But after 35,000…it’s bullshit.
“So…when did these lights become so misleading? Recently?”
I think it’s merely an issue of technology mystifying people a little bit more…people knowing less about their cars, as their cars become more advanced.
But the idea is nothing new. As I mentioned above, my ‘86 Volvo had an emissions light that came on @ 85,000 miles. Nothing actually wrong, they just want you to check it. And what’s more, it didn’t actually SAY “emissions check” or “check engine”. It wa sjust this odd cryptic symbol…maybe it meant something in Sweden, but not to me.
My friend used to drive an ‘83 Prelude. It had an analog version of this, very simplistic. In fact, there were 3 little tabs behind his cluster glass, near the odo. One was for the oil change, the other for the air filter change, and the third was something else. They all read “green”. But after a certain number of miles, one would flip over and read “red”. The idea, I gather, was that you took your car into the dealer to take care of the issues. I mean, by itself, it’s not a bad feature. So, the thing turns red every 3500 miles, reminding you change your oil. The only problem was, the honda people must have (incorrectly) guessed that nobody, other than their dealer mechanics, would figure out how to reset these tabs. In fact, all it took was a nail file or knife.
These days, though, it’s different. To get it to turn off, you HAVE to go to the dealer…which is all well and good if you’re under warranty. But after 35,000…it’s bullshit.
You want another example of idiocy masquerading itself as “concern for the environment?”. Look at the mandate for so-called low-flow toilets in all new and replacement construction. These devices save water only when “everything comes out right” — the slightest deviation from ideal waste conditions results in multiple flushes (when they don’t just clog up), negating any water savings of the low-flow design.
All of us — but especially those of you seeking gridlock — should keep this kind of regulatory defecation in mind when you cast your votes this November. Remember that gridlock has its limits when it comes to checking the excesses of regulatory agencies … and while one candidate could definitely do more to make the EPA more sane, the other is beholden to those who would like to see our environmental policies driven by parts-per-billion probabilities instead of significant, verifiable effects.
2000 S-10 with 112,000 miles on it and I only get 1 idiot light - the low fuel light.
If I fill-up immediately when the light turns on (because after all, I’m almost out of gas, right?), I can put in exactly 12 gallons. Considering that the tank actually holds 16 gallons, it is giving the warning light when there are 4 freakin’ gallons left!
4 gallons (90 miles worth) is NOT “low fuel”, thus I can only assume one thing:
Since GM never wants to actually provide the free roadside service, particularly for something as dumb as running out of gas, they make you panic and fill ‘er up when you still have a 1/4 tank left.
Maybe it’s being petty , but I don’t think expecting a “Low Fuel” light to indicate a Low Fuel condition is out of line.
I’m constantly, if only slightly, tempted to deliberately run out of gas just to show them that I’ve figured out their evil plan.
Actually, Rich, the Federally Reigstry (which lists all the federal regulations) has grown to record levels under the Bush administration.
As for low-flo toilets, that wasn’t an executive decision, it was passed as part of an omnibus energy bill by Congress in 1992. And it was signed by Bush 41.
Roger,
I don’t suppose this is truly a “scam”. I mean, better that GM errs on the high side, right? If you had to choose, would you rather have your gas light come on @ 4 gals, or @ 0.2 gals?
Plus, you know, outright, what this light is used for. You know what it means when it comes on, even if the warning may be premature. Furthermore, you don’t have to take it in to get it serviced in order to get the light to turn off. It’s not like a “check engine” light. Yeah, I could “check the engine” myself, but there’s probably not much I can do about that light, because it could mean a million things. Gas light only means one thing: “low” gas. Sure, the amount may vary, but it’s not like you’re left wondering “man, my gas light is on—does that mean my engine is gonna catch on fire if I don’t take it to the dealer”
Evan:
Right on. The check engine light is a scam programed into the car’s computer to come on at the recomended service interval (25K, 50K,…) to “encourage” you to take the car to the dealer for servicing. And as we all know, dealer servicing is always overpriced, and many times unessary. Just change the oil regularly, the air filter when dirty, and check the coolant levels. Spark plugs however are a completely different thing. Has anyone noticed how deep in the engine they are hiding those things nowdays. You nearly have to pull the engine to change them…thus creating work for a mechanic or the dealership.
read your manual it will tell you how to turn them off. in some cars you just pump the break peddle 2 or 3 times.
Evan -
“I don’t suppose this is truly a “scam”. I mean, better that GM errs on the high side, right? If you had to choose, would you rather have your gas light come on @ 4 gals, or @ 0.2 gals?”
I don’t actually think it’s a scam, or as I put it, “an evil plot”. I was simply pointing out one of the other idiotic idiot lights.
I just always thought it was a little goofy that they considered 4 gallons to be low enough to give a “low fuel” light. Hell, the gauge says “E” with 4 gallons left anyhow, so why use the light at all? Anyone dumb enough to drive another hour-and-a-half after “E” deserves to be stranded, and is unlikely to have ever noticed the light in the first place.
I do, however, believe that it was a clear decision on GM’s part to save money on Roadside Assistance. Not that I blame them for trying to cut costs, but by doing it this way, they’ve eliminated any real value of the light. They might as well just get rid of it now.
So many people have told stories about “automatic fails” on the inspections, I thought I’d tell mine about an “automatic pass”. In Arizona, I owned a van (1988 Ford E150) with dual gas tanks. When I took it in for inspection, I saw they were putting something on the tailpipe and gas inlet and then revving the engine (checking for leaks in the exhaust?) which got me worried. But when the inspector looked at my dual tanks (with two separate inlets) he just shook his head and marked something on the form; when I got my copy I saw that he’d simply marked that part “not applicable”! So I basically had a license to pollute.
FWIW, I grew up in a non-car-owning culture, and moving to a very car-centric place was a bit of an eye-opener. What an unbelievable racket the DMV is - 99 & 44/100% pure extortion, if you ask me.
JD, agreed
First, your income is taxed.
You buy a new car, you pay taxes.
Buy gas, pay taxes.
Register your car yearly (why yearly???), one big tax.
Get your car inspected yeraly (in most states, pay taxes.
You pay insurance. Sheesh, don’t get me started on that one.
Have your car reparied, pay taxes.
And that is just on the surface. We are chokingly regulated.
my typing gets worse with my passion for a subject. Sorry for the mispellings.
Radley, your points are well-taken. I know that this administration has not done what it takes to curb regulatory growth.
However, when they have moved in the right direction — from arsenic to ANWR — they have been vigorously opposed by the overly-precautionary/anti-free-market elements of environmental activism — elements that have also always supported the Democratic candidate in presidential elections.
If Kerry is elected, he will owe them … and the gridlock won’t do much to stop him from promoting their agenda within the Executive Branch.
The reg-creep will not just continue under Kerry … it will accelerate.
2002 Toyota Echo with 45K miles, no lights. 1999 Chevy Silverado with 135K on it, including 60K in the first year; routine oil light (comes on 5000 miles after resting it) and, once, the engine light. A dealer told me the engine light was due to new tires, and it would go away in a few hundred miles, which it did.
What do I look for when buying a car? A dealer with an honest service shop. Priceless. For that, I’d even buy another Ford.
Brian, I know what you mean about the “shift” light. The Escort I had in the early 80s had one. Incredibly annoying things that don’t believe in topping 2000 rpms. I disconnected mine.
How do you turn of 2002 volvo s-80 change oil light??
That’s Why They Call Them “Idiot” Lights
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I have an ES 300 1995 and the check engine light came on recently. I just ordered a code reader for 29.95 and will check it myself, then reset it if it is not serious or a false alarm. In Oklahoma we did away with inspections, its a waste of money and a scam for dealers and repair shops to get you in.
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