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	<title>Comments on: With Us or Against Us</title>
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	<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/</link>
	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: prescription</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34982</link>
		<dc:creator>prescription</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34982</guid>
		<description>You are invited to visit some information on&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.showcasegifts.net/ultram-online.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; store &lt;/a&gt; - Tons of interesdting stuff!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are invited to visit some information on<a href="http://www.showcasegifts.net/ultram-online.html" rel="nofollow"> store </a> &#8211; Tons of interesdting stuff!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34981</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 18:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34981</guid>
		<description>Serpent:
Them and the Van Buren Boys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serpent:<br />
Them and the Van Buren Boys</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Serpent</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34980</link>
		<dc:creator>The Serpent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34980</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Aaron:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;I typically hang with the Ronnie Reagan crew.&lt;/i&gt;

hehehe ... Yeah I heard those boys were some bad-asses.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Aaron:</b> <i>I typically hang with the Ronnie Reagan crew.</i></p>
<p>hehehe &#8230; Yeah I heard those boys were some bad-asses.  ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34979</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 14:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34979</guid>
		<description>Radley, your sweeping generalizations are maddening.  Just because three countries are (rightfully) left out of the bidding process does NOT equate to taxpayers getting squeezed.  Do you know for a fact that any of the dozens of other countries will NOT be providing the most efficient and cost-effective bids over France, Germany and Russia (FGR)?  

Did FGR allow us in on their illegal trading with pre-war Iraq?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Radley, your sweeping generalizations are maddening.  Just because three countries are (rightfully) left out of the bidding process does NOT equate to taxpayers getting squeezed.  Do you know for a fact that any of the dozens of other countries will NOT be providing the most efficient and cost-effective bids over France, Germany and Russia (FGR)?  </p>
<p>Did FGR allow us in on their illegal trading with pre-war Iraq?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34978</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2003 13:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34978</guid>
		<description>Serpent - The cattle curse will only hold water, if you were at the same time getting branded. 

 No, I&#039;m not with Johnny Kennedy&#039;s crew.  I typically hang with the Ronnie Reagan crew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Serpent &#8211; The cattle curse will only hold water, if you were at the same time getting branded. </p>
<p> No, I&#8217;m not with Johnny Kennedy&#8217;s crew.  I typically hang with the Ronnie Reagan crew.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34977</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34977</guid>
		<description>all the more reason for drilling in Alaska...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>all the more reason for drilling in Alaska&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: hesprynne</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34976</link>
		<dc:creator>hesprynne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 20:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34976</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s reassuring to know that you folks will be perfectly happy if OPEC ever decides to raise gas prices to the perfectly reasonable $2.64 a gallon.

(Don&#039;t mind the peanut gallery, Radley.  Stick to your libertarian guns.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s reassuring to know that you folks will be perfectly happy if OPEC ever decides to raise gas prices to the perfectly reasonable $2.64 a gallon.</p>
<p>(Don&#8217;t mind the peanut gallery, Radley.  Stick to your libertarian guns.)</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Dani</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34975</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Dani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34975</guid>
		<description>OR would you be ok with the guy who stood by and watched your wife get raped, doing nothing to stop it, coming over and hanging out at your house and enjoying your wife&#039;s cooking after the whole &quot;incident&quot; ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OR would you be ok with the guy who stood by and watched your wife get raped, doing nothing to stop it, coming over and hanging out at your house and enjoying your wife&#8217;s cooking after the whole &#8220;incident&#8221; ?</p>
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		<title>By: md</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34974</link>
		<dc:creator>md</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34974</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry but the French profited off of Saddam&#039;s regime.  Forgive me for getting pissed off when they actively obstruct our progress to get rid of Saddam, then get pouty when they&#039;re not allowed to profit from rebuilding what they helped destroy.  France&#039;s actions have consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry but the French profited off of Saddam&#8217;s regime.  Forgive me for getting pissed off when they actively obstruct our progress to get rid of Saddam, then get pouty when they&#8217;re not allowed to profit from rebuilding what they helped destroy.  France&#8217;s actions have consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: The Serpent</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-2/#comment-34973</link>
		<dc:creator>The Serpent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34973</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Aaron:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;I see this argument breaking down into two different camps. Those who received corporal punishment as a child, and those who didn&#039;t.&lt;/i&gt;

Does being â??Cursed above all the Cattleâ? count as corporal punishment?

You aren&#039;t the same Aaron that is part of Johnny Kennedy&#039;s crew are you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Aaron:</b> <i>I see this argument breaking down into two different camps. Those who received corporal punishment as a child, and those who didn&#8217;t.</i></p>
<p>Does being â??Cursed above all the Cattleâ? count as corporal punishment?</p>
<p>You aren&#8217;t the same Aaron that is part of Johnny Kennedy&#8217;s crew are you?</p>
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		<title>By: The Serpent</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34972</link>
		<dc:creator>The Serpent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34972</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Michael:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;What the hell is this US/us all about????? If this is operation &quot;IRAQI Freedom&quot;, what the Fvck does us have to do with it. Wouldn&#039;t the best product for the best price be the best deal for the Iraqi&#039;s. Who gives a s**t about our foolish pride.. If France could build better roads, faster and cheaper than anyone else, then I say our gov&#039;t is wasteing our tax dollars. And in the end will be coming back to ask for more. IMHO&lt;/i&gt;

Okay, and by the same token just because someone has raped and murdered your wife doesnâ??t mean that I should be prohibited from trading with them! I donâ??t care about &lt;b&gt;You&lt;/b&gt; or your dead wife getting justice! I just want the best product at the best price. I donâ??t care about &lt;b&gt;You&lt;/b&gt; I only care about &lt;b&gt;me, Me, ME!!!&lt;/b&gt;

What the Fvck does &lt;b&gt;us&lt;/b&gt; have to do with it? Wouldn&#039;t the best product for the best price be the best deal for the &lt;b&gt;Me&lt;/b&gt;? Who gives a s**t about &lt;b&gt;Your&lt;/b&gt; foolish pride.. If a Raping Murderer could build better roads, faster and cheaper than anyone else, then I say our gov&#039;t is wasting our tax dollars by not employing the raping murderer to do it! And in the end will be coming back to ask &lt;b&gt;Me&lt;/b&gt; for more. IMHO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Michael:</b> <i>What the hell is this US/us all about????? If this is operation &#8220;IRAQI Freedom&#8221;, what the Fvck does us have to do with it. Wouldn&#8217;t the best product for the best price be the best deal for the Iraqi&#8217;s. Who gives a s**t about our foolish pride.. If France could build better roads, faster and cheaper than anyone else, then I say our gov&#8217;t is wasteing our tax dollars. And in the end will be coming back to ask for more. IMHO</i></p>
<p>Okay, and by the same token just because someone has raped and murdered your wife doesnâ??t mean that I should be prohibited from trading with them! I donâ??t care about <b>You</b> or your dead wife getting justice! I just want the best product at the best price. I donâ??t care about <b>You</b> I only care about <b>me, Me, ME!!!</b></p>
<p>What the Fvck does <b>us</b> have to do with it? Wouldn&#8217;t the best product for the best price be the best deal for the <b>Me</b>? Who gives a s**t about <b>Your</b> foolish pride.. If a Raping Murderer could build better roads, faster and cheaper than anyone else, then I say our gov&#8217;t is wasting our tax dollars by not employing the raping murderer to do it! And in the end will be coming back to ask <b>Me</b> for more. IMHO</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34971</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34971</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;BTW, I think it&#039;s high time that the US quit looking at Iraq as some victorius prize. The war is not over until we have our troops out of country and back home alive....&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So what you are saying is is that we&#039;re still fighting WW2 in Europe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>BTW, I think it&#8217;s high time that the US quit looking at Iraq as some victorius prize. The war is not over until we have our troops out of country and back home alive&#8230;.</p></blockquote>
<p>So what you are saying is is that we&#8217;re still fighting WW2 in Europe?</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34970</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:00:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34970</guid>
		<description>Well said michael, however I would like to quote the news this morning, &quot;It&#039;s america&#039;s money, let them spend it the way they want to.&quot; 

No more needs to be said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said michael, however I would like to quote the news this morning, &#8220;It&#8217;s america&#8217;s money, let them spend it the way they want to.&#8221; </p>
<p>No more needs to be said.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34969</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34969</guid>
		<description>BTW, I think it&#039;s high time that the US quit looking at Iraq as some victorius prize.  The war is not over until we have our troops out of country and back home alive....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, I think it&#8217;s high time that the US quit looking at Iraq as some victorius prize.  The war is not over until we have our troops out of country and back home alive&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34968</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 04:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34968</guid>
		<description>What the hell is this US/us all about????? If this is operation &quot;IRAQI Freedom&quot;,  what the Fvck does us have to do with it. Wouldn&#039;t the best product for the best price be the best deal for the Iraqi&#039;s. Who gives a s**t about our foolish pride.. If France could build better roads, faster and cheaper than anyone else, then I say our gov&#039;t is wasteing our tax dollars. And in the end will be coming back to ask for more. IMHO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the hell is this US/us all about????? If this is operation &#8220;IRAQI Freedom&#8221;,  what the Fvck does us have to do with it. Wouldn&#8217;t the best product for the best price be the best deal for the Iraqi&#8217;s. Who gives a s**t about our foolish pride.. If France could build better roads, faster and cheaper than anyone else, then I say our gov&#8217;t is wasteing our tax dollars. And in the end will be coming back to ask for more. IMHO</p>
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		<title>By: md</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34967</link>
		<dc:creator>md</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34967</guid>
		<description>Instead of looking at it as a punishment for France, Germany, Russia, and Canada, I&#039;m looking at it as a reward to Italy and Spain and the rest of the countries that supported us.  No, it won&#039;t be a perfectly efficient market-- but I think attaining that in Iraq in the near future will be as likely as finding a unicorn.  

While some see this policy as ideologically impure and possible childish, I see it as a lovely package combining carrot and stick.  I don&#039;t mind my government projecting the message of, as one of the commenters above put it, Don&#039;t Fuck with Us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Instead of looking at it as a punishment for France, Germany, Russia, and Canada, I&#8217;m looking at it as a reward to Italy and Spain and the rest of the countries that supported us.  No, it won&#8217;t be a perfectly efficient market&#8211; but I think attaining that in Iraq in the near future will be as likely as finding a unicorn.  </p>
<p>While some see this policy as ideologically impure and possible childish, I see it as a lovely package combining carrot and stick.  I don&#8217;t mind my government projecting the message of, as one of the commenters above put it, Don&#8217;t Fuck with Us.</p>
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		<title>By: roach</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34966</link>
		<dc:creator>roach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34966</guid>
		<description>Funny Aaron.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny Aaron.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34965</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:46:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34965</guid>
		<description>I see this argument breaking down into two different camps.  Those who received corporal punishment as a child, and those who didn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see this argument breaking down into two different camps.  Those who received corporal punishment as a child, and those who didn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: MA</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34964</link>
		<dc:creator>MA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2003 22:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34964</guid>
		<description>War is excellent business for some politically-connected companies and the usual suspects in the military-industrial complex. Especially when the bidding process is suspended.

Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. The Taliban did and we were compelled to militarily oust them for harboring al Qaeda.

We have enough murderers rapists and thieves in our own country (and government, no less) to keep us busy. I note that we&#039;ve ignored the murderers, rapists and thieves in the Congo and China and Bangladesh and Russia where it doesn&#039;t make good business sense to invade and impose neoconservative morals.

Correction: the war is STILL being fought. Don&#039;t lecture me on reality. I have mine and you have yours.

France didn&#039;t ally with Saddam. Its government adamantly refused to back us in the war. There&#039;s a big difference.

When you refer to the US government (i.e. Bush) as &quot;we&quot; you lose me. I opposed the war from the beginning and oppose the way it&#039;s being managed now.

Your frothing assessment of France as an ally of Saddam and a bad child to be whipped by George W. Bush, rather than as a sovereign nation with its own interests could land you a job in the White House. You should send them your resume.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>War is excellent business for some politically-connected companies and the usual suspects in the military-industrial complex. Especially when the bidding process is suspended.</p>
<p>Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. The Taliban did and we were compelled to militarily oust them for harboring al Qaeda.</p>
<p>We have enough murderers rapists and thieves in our own country (and government, no less) to keep us busy. I note that we&#8217;ve ignored the murderers, rapists and thieves in the Congo and China and Bangladesh and Russia where it doesn&#8217;t make good business sense to invade and impose neoconservative morals.</p>
<p>Correction: the war is STILL being fought. Don&#8217;t lecture me on reality. I have mine and you have yours.</p>
<p>France didn&#8217;t ally with Saddam. Its government adamantly refused to back us in the war. There&#8217;s a big difference.</p>
<p>When you refer to the US government (i.e. Bush) as &#8220;we&#8221; you lose me. I opposed the war from the beginning and oppose the way it&#8217;s being managed now.</p>
<p>Your frothing assessment of France as an ally of Saddam and a bad child to be whipped by George W. Bush, rather than as a sovereign nation with its own interests could land you a job in the White House. You should send them your resume.</p>
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		<title>By: The Serpent</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/with-us-or-against-us/comment-page-1/#comment-34963</link>
		<dc:creator>The Serpent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2003 21:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3468#comment-34963</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;MA:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;Some of us believe that the Iraq War has more to do with business than with national security or social justice.&lt;/i&gt;

Is War good business?

And are you forgetting about 9/11 or just conveniently ignoring it?

Hey if you want to ignore murderers, rapists, and thieves, we could probably boost the economy by keeping them out of prisons. 

&lt;b&gt;MA:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;I agree with Radley this time. It&#039;s not just that this war is of dubious merit as far as wars go â?¦&lt;/i&gt;

Regardless of the merits the war has already been fought. The time to debate its merits is past. Either you can deal with reality as it is, or you can erroneously deal with reality as you wish it were. 

&lt;b&gt;MA:&lt;/b&gt; &lt;i&gt;â?¦ but the way our government is conducting the enterprise itself is a shitty deal for US taxpayers first and anyone who&#039;s not in the pants of the ruling elite second.&lt;/i&gt;

Ahhh, so when someone does something wrong to us (like a thief robbing your neighbors house, or France allying with Saddam) we shouldnâ??t negatively reinforce their behavior because as any â??saneâ? person knows there are no consequences for action?

We just turn the other cheek. Is that what you are saying MA?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>MA:</b> <i>Some of us believe that the Iraq War has more to do with business than with national security or social justice.</i></p>
<p>Is War good business?</p>
<p>And are you forgetting about 9/11 or just conveniently ignoring it?</p>
<p>Hey if you want to ignore murderers, rapists, and thieves, we could probably boost the economy by keeping them out of prisons. </p>
<p><b>MA:</b> <i>I agree with Radley this time. It&#8217;s not just that this war is of dubious merit as far as wars go â?¦</i></p>
<p>Regardless of the merits the war has already been fought. The time to debate its merits is past. Either you can deal with reality as it is, or you can erroneously deal with reality as you wish it were. </p>
<p><b>MA:</b> <i>â?¦ but the way our government is conducting the enterprise itself is a shitty deal for US taxpayers first and anyone who&#8217;s not in the pants of the ruling elite second.</i></p>
<p>Ahhh, so when someone does something wrong to us (like a thief robbing your neighbors house, or France allying with Saddam) we shouldnâ??t negatively reinforce their behavior because as any â??saneâ? person knows there are no consequences for action?</p>
<p>We just turn the other cheek. Is that what you are saying MA?</p>
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