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	<title>Comments on: Environmentalism as Religion</title>
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	<description>It rankles me when somebody tries to tell somebody what to do.</description>
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		<title>By: felicia</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-35007</link>
		<dc:creator>felicia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 04:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.network54.com/Index/57779" rel="nofollow"><b>bontril</b></a></p>
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		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-35006</link>
		<dc:creator>How Do You Play Texas Holdem message board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2005 01:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-35005</link>
		<dc:creator>electronic texas holdem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-35002</link>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:41:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34999</link>
		<dc:creator>online casinos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34998</link>
		<dc:creator>online casinos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2005 10:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: In the Agora</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-35008</link>
		<dc:creator>In the Agora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Crichton answers Emmerich&lt;/strong&gt;

As profiled on 20/20 last night (by one of my favorite TV journalists, John Stossel), Michael Crichton&#039;s new book State of Fear expresses a healthy dose of skepticism about the global warming alarm being raised by environmentalists, as exemplified in...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Crichton answers Emmerich</strong></p>
<p>As profiled on 20/20 last night (by one of my favorite TV journalists, John Stossel), Michael Crichton&#8217;s new book State of Fear expresses a healthy dose of skepticism about the global warming alarm being raised by environmentalists, as exemplified in&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: PenguinMAX</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34996</link>
		<dc:creator>PenguinMAX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34996</guid>
		<description>First of all, if by &quot;our planet&quot; you mean wilderness, as opposed to areas populated by humans, then there is no reason to suppose why it DOES have intrinsic value, or why humans should have a spiritual duty to it (a pagan notion, I might add). A lot of environmentalists ultimately care nothing about the condition of the human race, but are preoccupied by what they refer to as the &quot;environment.&quot; To them, the human race is a virus, an intrusion defiling sacred wilderness. David M. Graber, a research biologist in his Los Angeles Times book review of Bill McKibben&#039;s &quot;The End of Nature&quot;, denounced the human race, hoping for the &quot;right virus&quot; to come along and wipe humanity out. The founder of Sierra Club (the leading and most respectable environmental organization), John Muir, was quoted approvingly by McKibben as wishing for alligators to be &quot;blessed now and then with a mouthful of terror-stricken man by way of a dainty.&quot; Besides the fact that leading environmental leaders are advocating the death of billions of humans, their romantic notion of nature is absurd (as Crichton points out). If anything, the industrial revolution has improved nature vastly. One of the principle environmental myths is that the bad outweighs the good with regards to air pollution; but they completely disregard the total elimination of tuberculosis and the radical reduction of pneumonia. Life expectancy doubled (as a result of better living conditions and medical innovations, all a product of the industrial revolution), the air condition in post-industrial countries like the United States was far better than it has ever been when the Industrial Revolution was still blooming; electricity and new forms of energy (as a result of technological and scientific advances) are being used more and more frequently. Water has never been more drinkable, and cars are a huge improvement over horses, which originally caused a huge pollution problem with vast droppings of manure and urine. In you want to find filth and squalor, look no further than a pre-industrial third world country. The ultimate goal of environmentalism is the halting of all economic and scientific progress -but so what, environmentalists say; humanity can make do without. But this assumption is based on ignorance. If we forsake all forms of energy (and indeed all &#039;intrusion&#039; on nature), then economic progress will not be halted; it will collapse into a downward tailspin. A population of 300 million Americans NEED that energy, and if you cut the supply off, the population and standard of life will likewise be strangled. The only 2 forms of energy environmentalists approve (solar and wind) of are utterly impractical; even if they weren&#039;t, environmentalists would still find grounds to accuse them of disturbing the &quot;ecological sanctity&quot; (itself a contradiction in terms) of the Earth. I am not addressing the issue of global warming here; I don&#039;t intend to.  While environmentalist policies value kangaroo rats more than human lives, scientists don&#039;t know for sure WHAT causes global warming (hint: it happens without human intervention anyway), so that means the casual environmentalist doesn&#039;t either. For the environmentalist, nature is every BUT humans, so they are perfectly justified by murdering thousands of humans as opposed to one endangered bear. (PETA has already claimed that even if, hypothetically, a cure for AIDS was found in monkeys, they would allow millions of humans to die rather than subjecting even one monkey to be experimented upon.) The environmentalistâ??s maniacal hatred of industrial society (and all forms of human intervention for that matter) is rooted in a disdain for technology, for science, and for man&#039;s mastery over nature.

Finally, calm yourself. No one has the intention of &quot;destroying&quot; the planet, itself an absurd notion. If humans do cause extinction it will be nothing like the Cambrian extinction that killed 50% of all the animals on earth. Extinctions far bigger than you can comprehend have happened in a perpetually transforming environment as a result of evolution for billions of years (like when plants first released poisonous oxygen as a waste product). Even if (say) global warming or ozone depletion happened on a global scale, life would still thrive (although admittedly not humans -environmentalists would be overjoyed). In any case, the planet ITSELF is not in danger and never was. Technology has improved the standard of life in industrial countries to a point that is unimaginable by the kings and emporers of old; you are warm in the winter, cool in the summer, have hot water all year round and public washrooms. If anything, technology has been improving environment to an unprecedented level, if by environment you mean surroundings, and not just the narrow definition of it environmentalists use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, if by &#8220;our planet&#8221; you mean wilderness, as opposed to areas populated by humans, then there is no reason to suppose why it DOES have intrinsic value, or why humans should have a spiritual duty to it (a pagan notion, I might add). A lot of environmentalists ultimately care nothing about the condition of the human race, but are preoccupied by what they refer to as the &#8220;environment.&#8221; To them, the human race is a virus, an intrusion defiling sacred wilderness. David M. Graber, a research biologist in his Los Angeles Times book review of Bill McKibben&#8217;s &#8220;The End of Nature&#8221;, denounced the human race, hoping for the &#8220;right virus&#8221; to come along and wipe humanity out. The founder of Sierra Club (the leading and most respectable environmental organization), John Muir, was quoted approvingly by McKibben as wishing for alligators to be &#8220;blessed now and then with a mouthful of terror-stricken man by way of a dainty.&#8221; Besides the fact that leading environmental leaders are advocating the death of billions of humans, their romantic notion of nature is absurd (as Crichton points out). If anything, the industrial revolution has improved nature vastly. One of the principle environmental myths is that the bad outweighs the good with regards to air pollution; but they completely disregard the total elimination of tuberculosis and the radical reduction of pneumonia. Life expectancy doubled (as a result of better living conditions and medical innovations, all a product of the industrial revolution), the air condition in post-industrial countries like the United States was far better than it has ever been when the Industrial Revolution was still blooming; electricity and new forms of energy (as a result of technological and scientific advances) are being used more and more frequently. Water has never been more drinkable, and cars are a huge improvement over horses, which originally caused a huge pollution problem with vast droppings of manure and urine. In you want to find filth and squalor, look no further than a pre-industrial third world country. The ultimate goal of environmentalism is the halting of all economic and scientific progress -but so what, environmentalists say; humanity can make do without. But this assumption is based on ignorance. If we forsake all forms of energy (and indeed all &#8216;intrusion&#8217; on nature), then economic progress will not be halted; it will collapse into a downward tailspin. A population of 300 million Americans NEED that energy, and if you cut the supply off, the population and standard of life will likewise be strangled. The only 2 forms of energy environmentalists approve (solar and wind) of are utterly impractical; even if they weren&#8217;t, environmentalists would still find grounds to accuse them of disturbing the &#8220;ecological sanctity&#8221; (itself a contradiction in terms) of the Earth. I am not addressing the issue of global warming here; I don&#8217;t intend to.  While environmentalist policies value kangaroo rats more than human lives, scientists don&#8217;t know for sure WHAT causes global warming (hint: it happens without human intervention anyway), so that means the casual environmentalist doesn&#8217;t either. For the environmentalist, nature is every BUT humans, so they are perfectly justified by murdering thousands of humans as opposed to one endangered bear. (PETA has already claimed that even if, hypothetically, a cure for AIDS was found in monkeys, they would allow millions of humans to die rather than subjecting even one monkey to be experimented upon.) The environmentalistâ??s maniacal hatred of industrial society (and all forms of human intervention for that matter) is rooted in a disdain for technology, for science, and for man&#8217;s mastery over nature.</p>
<p>Finally, calm yourself. No one has the intention of &#8220;destroying&#8221; the planet, itself an absurd notion. If humans do cause extinction it will be nothing like the Cambrian extinction that killed 50% of all the animals on earth. Extinctions far bigger than you can comprehend have happened in a perpetually transforming environment as a result of evolution for billions of years (like when plants first released poisonous oxygen as a waste product). Even if (say) global warming or ozone depletion happened on a global scale, life would still thrive (although admittedly not humans -environmentalists would be overjoyed). In any case, the planet ITSELF is not in danger and never was. Technology has improved the standard of life in industrial countries to a point that is unimaginable by the kings and emporers of old; you are warm in the winter, cool in the summer, have hot water all year round and public washrooms. If anything, technology has been improving environment to an unprecedented level, if by environment you mean surroundings, and not just the narrow definition of it environmentalists use.</p>
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		<title>By: Morfos</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34995</link>
		<dc:creator>Morfos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2003 02:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34995</guid>
		<description>Ok, so since you hate Environmentalists, you clearly don&#039;t care about our planet. I think you Anti-treehuger Conservatives should all go to the moon and destroy it instead of the planet we live on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, so since you hate Environmentalists, you clearly don&#8217;t care about our planet. I think you Anti-treehuger Conservatives should all go to the moon and destroy it instead of the planet we live on!</p>
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		<title>By: DougB</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34994</link>
		<dc:creator>DougB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:00:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34994</guid>
		<description>Actually, I was referring to earlier comments and others attempting to lump Crichton in with all &quot;Environmental Wackos.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I was referring to earlier comments and others attempting to lump Crichton in with all &#8220;Environmental Wackos.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: max power</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34993</link>
		<dc:creator>max power</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 18:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34993</guid>
		<description>1.  FDL raises a real good point... both sides in the debate must be held to high standards of scientific accuracy

2.  DougB, I&#039;m not sure who you&#039;re alluding to, but Crichton is himself clearly concerned with the environment, so I don&#039;t think he&#039;s trying to &#039;label everyone concerned with environmental issues as an &quot;Environmental Wacko&quot;&#039;

Anyhoo.  It was a great speech, I thought--much better than his crappy books.  You could pretty much make the same speech about economics, as well: there is an enormous religious/irrational element to a lot of people&#039;s ideas on economic policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  FDL raises a real good point&#8230; both sides in the debate must be held to high standards of scientific accuracy</p>
<p>2.  DougB, I&#8217;m not sure who you&#8217;re alluding to, but Crichton is himself clearly concerned with the environment, so I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s trying to &#8216;label everyone concerned with environmental issues as an &#8220;Environmental Wacko&#8221;&#8216;</p>
<p>Anyhoo.  It was a great speech, I thought&#8211;much better than his crappy books.  You could pretty much make the same speech about economics, as well: there is an enormous religious/irrational element to a lot of people&#8217;s ideas on economic policy.</p>
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		<title>By: DougB</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34992</link>
		<dc:creator>DougB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 16:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34992</guid>
		<description>The effort to label everyone concerned with environmental issues as an &quot;Environmental Wacko&quot; is akin to likening all anti-aboriton supporters to abortion doctor assasins.

Both efforts leave a detestable taste in my mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The effort to label everyone concerned with environmental issues as an &#8220;Environmental Wacko&#8221; is akin to likening all anti-aboriton supporters to abortion doctor assasins.</p>
<p>Both efforts leave a detestable taste in my mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: jizzles</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34991</link>
		<dc:creator>jizzles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2003 08:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34991</guid>
		<description>Excellent speech. He said everything I was thinking, and more, and has facts to back it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent speech. He said everything I was thinking, and more, and has facts to back it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Christina</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34990</link>
		<dc:creator>Christina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34990</guid>
		<description>My dad used to define religion as a &quot;body of beliefs immune to evidence.&quot;  He always referred to socialists and environmentalists as religious kooks because they are two movements that behave like religions.  Any questioning of the dogma is shouted down as heresy.  Scaremongering is the main tool of the trade because you have to freak people out about the apocalypse to come, or else they won&#039;t feel the need to join up.  Villification of your opponents is necessary in order to induce an emotionally-based hatred of them among your followers, which has the effect of suppressing any real independent thought.  

This is largely why any conversation with an environmentalist or socialist contains almost no real facts and instead closely resembles a conversation you might have with a Jehovah&#039;s Witness or Mormon missionary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My dad used to define religion as a &#8220;body of beliefs immune to evidence.&#8221;  He always referred to socialists and environmentalists as religious kooks because they are two movements that behave like religions.  Any questioning of the dogma is shouted down as heresy.  Scaremongering is the main tool of the trade because you have to freak people out about the apocalypse to come, or else they won&#8217;t feel the need to join up.  Villification of your opponents is necessary in order to induce an emotionally-based hatred of them among your followers, which has the effect of suppressing any real independent thought.  </p>
<p>This is largely why any conversation with an environmentalist or socialist contains almost no real facts and instead closely resembles a conversation you might have with a Jehovah&#8217;s Witness or Mormon missionary.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34989</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34989</guid>
		<description>For a good read on what Chrichton is all about, I&#039;d suggest everyone read his non-fiction memoir, Travels.  Safe to say, I enjoyed it a whole lot more than any of his fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a good read on what Chrichton is all about, I&#8217;d suggest everyone read his non-fiction memoir, Travels.  Safe to say, I enjoyed it a whole lot more than any of his fiction.</p>
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		<title>By: FDL</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34988</link>
		<dc:creator>FDL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34988</guid>
		<description>True, but . . .

The Cuyahoga River actually caught on fire not so long ago.  The air in the Los Angeles basin was terrible.  The amount of DDT being used was, in fact, causing avian mortality.  Car makers claimed that the installation of catalytic converters would bankrupt the industry.  and on, and on, and on.

The EPA organic statute, Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, FIFRA, RCRA, CERCLA, ESA . . . Industry claimed that each of these statutes would destroy the american economy.  Yet somehow the rivers are cleaner, drinking water is cleaner, the air is cleaner, habitat is being protected, cradle-to-grave processing for toxic materials is expanding, all without the utter destruction of the american economy.

The extreme faction of the environmental movement is guilty as charged.  BUT, that faction would have much less power if the anti-enviros hadn&#039;t completely destroyed their own credibility by being wrong time after time about the costs of compliance.

rational use of pesticides, herbicides and antibiotics are in the interest of the world society as a whole.  but the ag. community purports to be OUTRAGED when governments try to regulate farming practices.  Is it any wonder, therefore, that the enviro. community finds that simply banning certain products is easier?

When the ag community is willing to talk about allowing regulation over the tons of raw sewage, pesticides, herbicides, and nutrients that they dump into the nation&#039;s water systems, then the enviro community will silence its own extremists.  until then, both sides bear the blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True, but . . .</p>
<p>The Cuyahoga River actually caught on fire not so long ago.  The air in the Los Angeles basin was terrible.  The amount of DDT being used was, in fact, causing avian mortality.  Car makers claimed that the installation of catalytic converters would bankrupt the industry.  and on, and on, and on.</p>
<p>The EPA organic statute, Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, FIFRA, RCRA, CERCLA, ESA . . . Industry claimed that each of these statutes would destroy the american economy.  Yet somehow the rivers are cleaner, drinking water is cleaner, the air is cleaner, habitat is being protected, cradle-to-grave processing for toxic materials is expanding, all without the utter destruction of the american economy.</p>
<p>The extreme faction of the environmental movement is guilty as charged.  BUT, that faction would have much less power if the anti-enviros hadn&#8217;t completely destroyed their own credibility by being wrong time after time about the costs of compliance.</p>
<p>rational use of pesticides, herbicides and antibiotics are in the interest of the world society as a whole.  but the ag. community purports to be OUTRAGED when governments try to regulate farming practices.  Is it any wonder, therefore, that the enviro. community finds that simply banning certain products is easier?</p>
<p>When the ag community is willing to talk about allowing regulation over the tons of raw sewage, pesticides, herbicides, and nutrients that they dump into the nation&#8217;s water systems, then the enviro community will silence its own extremists.  until then, both sides bear the blame.</p>
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		<title>By: The Serpent</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34987</link>
		<dc:creator>The Serpent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 16:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34987</guid>
		<description>Didnâ??t uber-environmentalist Al Gore just endorse Howard Dean for president? Iâ??m surprised that blip didnâ??t show up on the radar in this Blog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didnâ??t uber-environmentalist Al Gore just endorse Howard Dean for president? Iâ??m surprised that blip didnâ??t show up on the radar in this Blog?</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. Dani</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34986</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. Dani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34986</guid>
		<description>I hate environmentalists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate environmentalists.</p>
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		<title>By: fangsign</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34985</link>
		<dc:creator>fangsign</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34985</guid>
		<description>Nice Radley.

You know, this really is no laughing matter. I mean, hell, I almost swallowed a pine cone the other day!

Freaking tree hugging hippies! It&#039;s all their fault!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice Radley.</p>
<p>You know, this really is no laughing matter. I mean, hell, I almost swallowed a pine cone the other day!</p>
<p>Freaking tree hugging hippies! It&#8217;s all their fault!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Krempasky</title>
		<link>http://www.theagitator.com/2003/12/11/environmentalism-as-religion/comment-page-1/#comment-34984</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Krempasky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2003 23:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.theagitator.com/?p=3469#comment-34984</guid>
		<description>Exactly.

And the sick part is my father actually works in teh Rachel Carson State Office Building in Harrisburg, PA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>And the sick part is my father actually works in teh Rachel Carson State Office Building in Harrisburg, PA.</p>
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