TheAgitator.com
Dumbstruck
Thursday, December 4th, 2003You really need to read this NY Times article to believe it. Not only can you no longer smoke New York City’s public places, it is also illlegal to possess an ashtray in public. That would include collectables, antiques, even that lump of fired clay your kid made for you in art class. And “inspectors” can raid your office or place of business without a search warrant to find them.
Think I’m exaggerating? Read:
As some New Yorkers have learned the hard way, the mere existence of an ashtray in a place where smoking is prohibited can lead to a summons. It doesn’t matter if the ashtray is stored well away from public areas. It doesn’t matter if it is used as a decoration, or to hold paper clips or M & M’s. No ashtrays are allowed, period……As first reported in The New York Post the other day, health officials, acting on an anonymous tip, insisted last week on inspecting the office of the club’s executive director, John Martello.
They found no one smoking. But â?? shades of Eliot Ness on the trail of rum runners from Canada â?? they came upon three ashtrays on a shelf behind a desk.
THEY were there just to get them out of the way,” Mr. Martello said yesterday. “We had to get them out of the public eye. They were collected. Who thinks about throwing them out?”
“I think what I was most appalled about,” he said, “was the constitutionality of them being able to come in and search my office. Unlike the police, they don’t need a search warrant. They just walked in on an anonymous tip.”
Ms. Mullin acknowledged that “there is some discretion offered to our inspectors.”
“If we do see stacks of ashtrays,” she said, “it is tantamount to the potential that people are permitting smoking.”
You can’t make this up.
You can be fined for actions “tantamount to the potential” that you’re allowing people to smoke. Actual smoking need never have taken place.
(Hat tip: Sasha Castel)
Home of the free…what crap! I’ll bet the same people that go on these ashtray raids beat their children for using words like “gay”….
This should serve as a wake-up call to those thinking that smoking bans aren’t THAT bad.
How long before “inspectors” are allowed, without a warrant, to search your home too? Maybe they should just look for guns while they are at it?
Give an inch…
Like I might pay the fine…see you in court. Don’t forget to bring a copy of the city ordinance and I’ll bring a copy of the Fourth Amendment. Sound good?
:)
This is one of the worst fucking dreams I’ve had in a while. I can’t wait to wake up.
Anyone catch South Park last night? The whole episode was about the anti-smoking movement and the distortion of facts and lies they use to end public smoking and hurt the tobacco companies. The episode ended with the boys emphasizing personal responsibility for one’s actions and that the tobacco companies weren’t to blame for anything.
Although a search warrant would normally be required, regardless of police involvement, a recognized exception to the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition of warrantless searches are so-called administrative searches conducted pursuant to an ordinance. This happens occasionally when businesses are searched to check up on health and safety violations. This is not to say that there is no Fourth Amendment violation here—it applies to any government-mandated search regardless of police involvement. The fact that an anonymous tip was the pretext for the search should raise a red flag.
Although I have not seen the text of the ordinance at issue here, it would appear to be strict liability with no need for a finding of intent or even knowledge. Which would explain how the presence of an ashtray would lead a city official to conclude that the ban has been violated.
However, the official’s reasoning–”tantamount to the potential”–is clearly tenuous and unsupportable. I would think “knowledge” of an violation by an owner would need to be proved in order to sustain a criminal sanction. I think that in addition to a Fourth Amendment issue, there is also a greater due process concern as well. At least in this lawyer’s opinion. I would be interested to hear what others have to say. Keep up the good work Radley.
The anti-smoking forces usually claim that they are only looking out for the health of those who work in bars/restaurants. That made me wonder: what if a bar’s employees all smoke themselves? And then I wondered, is there a law against discriminating against non-smokers in hiring? Is the non-smoking majority a protected class, or do they just act like it?
they just act like it
Ben,
I saw it. It was one of the best South Parks I’ve ever seen. I love how they had Rob Reiner overeating while talking about how unhealthy smoking is.
Ok this is going a little too far for my tastes. Next thing you know they will be telling you that you can’t have ashtrays in you car….. What next?
Have you checked new cars now days? No ashtrays (coin holders) no lighters (power outlets).
I have spoons in my home. I guess that makes me a herion uses.
I can’t wait until they start raiding elementary school art classes.
heroin, sorry can’t spell.
I don’t have to worry about not having an ashtray in my car yet. I still afford a new car. But if I could I would still get an illegal ashtray. :)
Dana-
Visit my website for an ashtray.
http://www.IllegalAshtrays.com
I am so ahead of the curve.
Woohoo~
Black market here I come.
I will run a huge ashtray cartel from my island with monkey butlers working hard at building items that look like everday items that convert to ashtrays.
I will be a very powerful man.
I can’t believe you people! Smoking is dangerous! That guy was probably keeping those ashtrays around for the afterhours events where the bar staff gathers up pre-schoolers and forces them to smoke Pall Malls and Camel wides! (Everyone knows that you have to get at least one child a week hooked on the nic or Big Tobacco sends its goon squad down to your house.)
Shame on all of you…think of the children!
I would NEVER make my kids smoke… now my cats, thats entirely a different story, I’m constantly taking my cigarettes away from them. Still haven’t figure out how they learned to use that lighter!
The best part was the name of the enforcement agency: The department of health and mental hygiene. i honestly had to double check and make sure i wasnt reading the onion.
Protect People From Themselves
You know, I hate smoking. I can’t stand it at all and I’m on a mission with a couple of other co-workers to get one to stop. But this kind of news makes me want to go buy a pack
Smoking Ban
I am totally against the smoking ban here in New York. Bar owners should be the only ones to decide whether or not to allow smoking in their places of business. I don’t smoke, but I fully expect bars to…
Please explain to me how a business can be considered a “public” area?
‘Please explain to me how a business can be considered a “public” area?’
By allowing access to members of the general public. There are limits (buses and restaurants usually require shoes while parks – especially swimming pools – may not) but if you don’t have a guard or security system limiting access you may be operating a public space.
The whole second-hand or Environmental Tobacco Smoke thing is ridiculous anyway, but banning ashtrays? Well, what can one expect of a place where the mayor publicizes a ban on “toy” guns by holding up a neon-green water pistol and saying it might be mistaken for the real thing?
Continuing a long-running horror film franchise, “Tantamount II: The Potential”.
The one tobacco smoker we ever had in our household used a glass with some water in the bottom for an ashtray. When they learn of this practice it will mean the end of the restaurant industry in New York City. I can hardly wait.
“put down the ashtray and put your hands on your head!”
Yeah, I read this the other day but the patented Kim RCOB descended and I had to (medicianally) apply 3-4 shots of Rebel Yell & a pack of Lucky Strikes just to clear up.
This makes me so ANGRY, I’m gonna need therapy.
Maybe I should call The Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.
“Mental Hygiene”?
That makes think of something superfluous like “mental floss.”
Anybody in need of a brain wash today???I think I might try one out, maybe it will clear out my cobwebs
My patience for this BS is thinning by the day. I do not need nor want anybody to worry about my health, drinking/smoking habits or the way I speak or conduct myself. I pride myself on the parental upbringing that has instilled the ability of self respect and self resposiablity. These nanny types with all there money can take a flying leap into the sea as far as I am concerned. Why don’t they just shut up and leave us alone. If they have issues with public actions let them buy some property in the sticks and set up a private community. Thanks to these people my taxes have increased to fund big goverment invasion/policing and ever expanding entiltement programs while my personal liberties have shrunk.
God help us all.
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