TheAgitator.com
Priceless
Wednesday, November 5th, 2003Cost of 1.5 million school kits for Iraqi children: $8 million
Delivery of 58,500 aluminum-framed green chalkboards and erasers: $2.7 million
Number of people killed in the delivery of green chalkboards, erasers, and school kits: 10
Hearing an Iraqi girl call the supplies “nice” but add that many students had already bought their own school supplies at the local market: PRICELESS.
UPDATE: Reader Dean points out that the 10 people killed were not all involved in the delivery of pencils and chalkboards. Some were carrying mail and medical supplies, and at least one who died was transporting much needed Coca-Cola products. Apologies for the incorrect info.
Actually, the article says the number of people killed was 10, not 6: “a total of six military, four contract drivers killed”.
Brooke, your attempt at humor falls flat.
So amended, SJ. Thanks for the catch.
Craigl, is there a funnier way I could have said that 10 people died to deliver goods that were apparently already available? When I write about death, I really like to get people doubled over with laughter–any pointers on how I can do that in the future?
Hey, you want to know what is really â??hystericalâ? in the last 20 years 30 million children have been â??abortedâ? in the U.S. alone â?¦ and they didnâ??t manage to deliver even one blackboard!
Eternally priceless.
Child: (noun) a young human being between birth and puberty.
Wow, 30 million post birth abortions in 20 years! you would think that would make the news.
This blog is tacky
Jason: you would think that would make the news.
You would think â?? wouldnâ??t you?
But you rarely here mention of it. I guess the â??powers that beâ? have more to gain by emphasizing the 10 kinetic, than the 30 million potential.
Gosh maybe we should run out of Iraq with our tail betwee our legs b/c we are getting our soldiers killed doing necessary reconstruction. 10 Deaths!?! It’s like Antietem. How will our Army recover?
Suck it up.
Ten people getting killed to deliver No. 2 pencils is necessary reconstruction?
Ahh, good use of the abortion smokescreen. I give it a 9.
Roach –
You’re right. We should wait until 60,000 U.S. soldiers die, then go home with our tail between our legs.
Here’s the thing, Brooke, you can make that calculus for everythign we do there. Is it worth it for 10 people die to get electricity on? Water delivered? Health care levels raised? City services restored? Garbage collected? Courts restored? Schools reopened?
Getting schools opened is a good thing and we run the show over there. If they want to attack us and create disorder every time we do something, then they–not us–get to set the agenda.
As for the Vietnam comparison, I think we should do what we’re doing which is restoring the Iraqis ability to police themselves and (unlike Vietnam) not pull the rug from them before they’re able to do so.
So many thousands of differences from Vietnam–no third-party outside supply source for Ba’athists, lack of a popular program, terrorism centered in Sunni minority areas, much different terrain–that the notion this conflict will lead to that level of casualties is laughable.
Besides 50,000 or so in Vietnam was still 1/8th of our WWII casualties. I’m sure glad Chicken-littles like you all weren’t running the show back then.
As I said earlier, Suck it up. (And quit playing into the enemy’s hands by worrying so much every time we have a strategically insignificant number of casualties).
Brooke Oberwetter: Ten people getting killed to deliver No. 2 pencils is necessary reconstruction?
Hey Brooke, are you contending that no one was ever killed in the manufacture or delivery of #2 pencils during peacetime in the U.S.? If anyone was killed during the manufacture or delivery of #2 pencils (or any other good or service) do you believe that we should ban the manufacture and delivery of that product? How about â??Terrorismâ? or â??Murderâ?, or â??Rapeâ? perhaps we should concentrate on banning the manufacture of those products?
I am not sure I comprehend the point you are trying to make here?
Radley Balko: You’re right. We should wait until 60,000 U.S. soldiers die, then go home with our tail between our legs.
Ahhh the â??optimismâ? of Atheists never ceases to amaze me.
I just think of all the lives we could have â??savedâ? by not getting involved in World War II. I mean think about it. Why did we declare war on Germany? Germany didnâ??t attack us. Besides Pearl Harbor wasnâ??t even American soil!. And itâ??s not like the Japanese killed any civilians who were just going about their business â?? they killed military personnel, and anybody with any â??common senseâ? knows that the mere existence of our military in Pearl harbor just proves that we were asking for it!
I have no doubt you are making your friend Pat Buchanan very proud.
The point I’m trying to make here is that 10 people died delivering school supplies–school supplies that seem to have already been available in Iraq! Why would we do that?
I’m not saying reconstruction is unnecessary. We made the mess, we should at least clean some of it up (though I’m undecided on just how much). But if this is typical of need assessment and provision we have some seriously messed up priorities.
If ten people get killed delivering pencils, imagine how many more might get killed deilvering materials for the basic infrastructure that should be our main priority. That’s my whole point–if people have to get killed, why not have them get killed delivering things that aren’t already there instead of things that are just nice perks.
Oh, and we declared war on germany because they declared war on us first.
Just because one kid had school supplies already–perhaps the child of some wealthy Baathist official–that doesn’t mean all the kids had them. Iraq’s a very poor country and these goods are not perishable; they’ll be put to good use and folks will know where they came from.
Iraq and the Middle East have very skewed demographics; they’re very youth-heavy. Delivering school supplies and rebuliding schools is an attempt to get in good with the people that are super-numerous and will be running that country in ten years.
It’s a good-will gesture; just b/c assholes are killing our troops for doing it shouldn’t stop us. As far as needs assessment, winning ‘hearts and minds’ should be at the center of our strategy. And it will cost lives.
Brooke Oberwetter: Oh, and we declared war on Germany because they declared war on us first.
So should I file this under the two wrongs make a right category?
Some people might argue that Iraq (Saddam Hussein) had already made a de facto declaration of war against the United States (Democracy, Tolerance, Personal liberty).
Man alive, the attention diverters are out in full force today. Is this the latest re-election strategy? Keep changing the subject until people are too tired to ask anymore questions?
Scared Stiff: Man alive, the attention diverters are out in full force today. Is this the latest re-election strategy? Keep changing the subject until people are too tired to ask anymore questions?
Ahhh let me guess, one of Erisâ??s little toadies? hehehe … coming from an entity who exists solely for the purpose of obfuscation I find your comments hysterical.
Since you are so good at taking orders why donâ??t you take an order from me? Run along and tell my Uncle Seth that Iâ??m coming for him. ;)
Brooke: The point I’m trying to make here is that 10 people died delivering school supplies–school supplies that seem to have already been available in Iraq! Why would we do that?
If you have to explain it three times, you’re obviously not making your point.
Or certain people are too stupid/bias to get the point. Its one or the other Dean. My guess is the latter.
I think the point has been made, hence this discussion. Whether or not you get it or agree with it is an entirely different matter.
Did you even read the entire article?
In the spring, two Kenyan contract truck drivers carrying aid supplies for the British army were abducted and held hostage for 10 days. In July, three Jordanian drivers ferrying Coca-Cola cans were attacked — one was shot and killed, another one was injured and the third was held for ransom. In August, a Kellogg Brown & Root Inc. contract driver transporting mail was fired upon en route and died.
That’s included in the total of ten.
Who are you, Dick Gephardt’s daughter?
My point is, it’s a bad attempt at sarcasm, not even backed up by facts.
You can do better, young Jedi.
Roach and Seprent, you are wrong. Brooke and Radley, you are right. The war in Iraq is doomed-from-the-start social engineering, and our soldiers are dying for no reason. The only question left is how many of them will have to die before we cut bait.
Aren’t you all glad I mediated that one for you? It’s not even that complicated.
I did read it, but I didn’t put together that the ten being referred to weren’t all tied in with the discussion of the school supplies. I certainly could have read it more carefully it seems, for which I apologize.
All I’m trying to say, and I think my point has been sufficiently made (albeit in a very muddled fashion), is that it’s a little ridiculous to me that we’re shipping stuff over that’s already there. In my opinion, shipping school supplies at great expense in money and life is just stupid. Especially given that a student claims that many of her schoolmates already had the necessary supplies.
In principle, I don’t think we should be there at all–I think it is a total waste whenever anyone gets killed in Iraq. I have real difficulty seeing the greater good on this one–I’m not trying to convince anyone.
But in practice, we are there. So yes, if it’s established that we’re there and we’re going to rebuild, in answer to Roach’s question, it is infinitely more reasonable to me that people get killed providing basic infrastructure needs than Cokes or #2 pencils.
So, I apologize for the incorrect information I posted, I really do. I should have read it more carefully. But my point remains exactly the same.
A few points.
1. The supplies were the concern of a contractor who must deliver them or lose the contract in which case someone else would’ve stepped up to the plate.
2. Even if the supplies arrived late, the point is to win favor bit by bit with the populace. The school supplies should be seen as a means to an end and not an end in and of themselves. To do otherwise is to lose the scope of the situation and, in a rebuilding project like that going on in Iraq, nothing should be viewed in a vacuum.
3. The student in the article clearly states, “Many of us already bought some things from the market.” Keyword: SOME. The article also points out the poor quality of Iraqi school supplies; more specifically the poor quality of pencils and their limited supply. So perhaps the student quoted bought some crappy, “Iraqi-made pencils [that] wouldn’t sharpen, smeared easily and couldn’t be erased.” Now she has quality supplies. The supplies by themselves will not change Iraqi opinion but they will serve as a reason to reconsider assumptions and attitudes.
Brooke I think an additional point is that there is a false dilemma inherent in your argumnet: (1) people get killed to deliver school supplies or (2) people don’t get killed to deliver school supplies.
No one knew ex ante that people delivering school supplies would be killed. What we knew is that we wanted to rebuild the country and cultivate good will. And that whatever we did there would likely be resistance from Islamists and Baathists. People, business, and life needed to continue regardless.
The only way to implment your strategy–if we can call it that–would be for our troops to live barricaded in their bases only venturing out to perform “necessary” work, narrowly defined. This is a sure-fire way to “lose the peace” and further reinforce the Arab and Islamic perception of the US as a paper tiger.
If we’re there, Americans will die to rebuild the country. And rebuilding schools, handing out vaccines, cleaning streets, restoring electricity (24/7), water, hospitals, and other jobs are all part of the mix. Just because school supplies seem minor or some rich-girl already had them does not make it a bad idea.
Here’s a serious question: How many lives was Okinawa? Iwo Jima? Monte Cassino? Or the Ardennes forest worth? We lost tens of thousands at each battle, and presumably WWII may have been won without some pieces of terrain that turned out to be too costly or (ultimately) unnecessary for final victory?
Hey Roachie,
Here’s your false dilemma.
We should never have invaded and occupied Iraq therefore:
The US troops in Iraq sh—
WE SHOULD NEVER HAVE INVADED IRAQ. END OF DISCUSSION. GO FUCKING RUB ONE OUT IF YOU NEED TO, BUT WE SHOULDN’T BE IN IRAQ IN THE FIRST PLACE. CUT THE FUCK BAIT AND GET THE FUCK OUT. END OF STORY. LIBERTARIANISM, AND HUMAN HAPPINESS, AIN’T THAT COMPLICATED.
Oh yeah, and Brooke, I totally want to date you. E-mail me. I have no idea what you look like but your politics ignite me. I’ll take you to Tryst. I’m totally serious, e-mail me today!
I still just think it was tacky to write the blog in that way. It devalues the lives of the people killed, who were actually DOING someone other than themselves in this world and not sitting around on their bums writing whiney blogs and complaining about smoking bans in DC.
ooops,
DOING something for someone other than themselves
Wow. I don’t think anyone has ever summed me up so completely in a dependent present participle phrase. I sure am going to re-evaluate my life now.
Matt G: We should never have invaded and occupied Iraq.
Just like we should have never invaded and occupied Nazi Germany during World War II?
Or is inconsistency the latest politically correct offering from the cult of pseudo-socialism (liberalism).
—
Brooke Obberwetter: I sure am going to re-evaluate my life now.
Yeah, and come to mention it, you don’t want to sell me â??death-sticksâ?. ;)
Sorry Brooke.
Please excuse spelling and grammer errors, English is a secand language.
I think compairing WWII and Veitnam to Iraq is a little off the mark, the 2 are apples and oranges. A better comparison would be Iraq to the Soviet invation of Afganistan. This is only going to get worse, The U.S. will loose this war, it’s inevitable, hell it hassnt even started yet. Do you really think it’s going to be contained within the borders of the Middle east?
Roach, FYI. less than 300,000 U.S. military forces, including Coast Gaurd died in WWII, I believe 272,000+-1000 is pretty accurate, less than your 50,000 by 1/8 compairison.
Atomic bombing of Japan, 160,000 from initial blasts, over 270,000 as of today as direct result of the bombings,(mostly womean and CHILDREN).
WWII total, 54,000,000. Men, womean and sadly, children… Mostly women and children.
Lets bottom line this entire Iraqi situation. According to plans, US forces will begin to be removed beginning nest year. As our forces leave the violence will increase and when the last American leaves Iraq will fall into civil war. The kurds will declare independence and turkey will respond with troops to prevent this. If you think Iraq is a barrel of fun now, just wait!
Jeff
How astute and absolutely correct. “Bring them on” worked!! Soon, there will be a major event that will impose martial law in the US. “got to be able to use those “mini nukes” without interference eh.
peace
Such a fascinating discussion.
Might as well forget there are supposedly rational humans behind the keyboards on this one, and just accept they’re only meme conduits.
Iraq is only the first step, remember? Godwin could tell you who’s to gain from all this. Who was dancing on 911? Who specializes in hitting and then pinning blame on others? Who gained from all this?
This was so interesting to read, the US sending school supplies for the kids what a thoughtful thing to do and to send all those US troups to help the poor Iraqs. If you believe that why in 1991 did they bomb power, water and sewage systems against the Geneva Convention, something that would surely kill hundreds of thousands of lives.
The Americian politicians think of 3 things, themselfs, money and there rich friends to help them get elected, in that order.