TheAgitator.com
More Proof….
Sunday, April 20th, 2003….for my assertion that the feminist agenda is driven by abortion and abortion only — all else is expendable.
Only a rabid abortion activist could look at a news story about a pregnant woman and her late-term fetus murdered, discarded, then washed ashore and see…
Oh my God. What is the matter with NOW?????? Have any of these women been pregnant? or given birth to a child. Both of mine were able to keep me awake at night LONG before they were born. If a double-murder isn’t charged against this guy or whomever is the murderer, it is a sad sad day for children’s rights in this country.
First, given that the article says that some pro-lifers hope fetal homicide statutes will act as a “foot in the door,” the concern seems perfectly reasonable. It also seems entirely consistent. If the fetus is not a person, then the fetus is not a person, for any legal purpose. Maybe there should be some extra penalty for destroying a fetus without the mother’s consent, but it’s preposterous to call it homicide.
This double standard has bothered me for years. When a man murders a pregnant woman, it’s a “double homicide.” When a woman murders her unborn child, its a perfectly legal “termination of pregnancy.” When a woman kills her 81/2 month old baby in a “reproductive health clinic” it’s a “late term abortion.” If she waits another 2 weeks until it’s born, then strangles it and throws it in a dumpster, its a homicide.
Another case of the feminists wanting it both ways.
From what I read about Roe v. Wade, the issue wasn’t about whether the fetus was a life, but about the woman’s right to privacy, and how it would be unconstitutional to impose legislation on what a woman can do with her own body.
Seems to me that if you follow this logic, if Scott Peterson did in fact kill his wife, and he did it in the privacy of his own home, than he is not guilty of muder at all. After all, who are we to tell him what he can do in the privacy of his own home?
Surfer924
Julian,
What is preposterous to consider a fetus anything other than a person.
And Kim, your comment about it being a sad sad day for children really got me to thinking about a glaring inconsistency in liberal thought. The lib’s always like to say “it’s for the children” when trying to pass some ridiculous law protecting people from themselves… I guess they only mean the “wanted” children.
Anonymous,
I agree. Basically, the lib’s say I’m commiting child abuse if I refuse to feed my 2 week old child and he/she can be taken from me. But, they don’t have a problem with me PAYING a doctor to eliminate the child just three weeks prior to this????
In case I didn’t make it clear. I’m STRICKLY AGAINST abortion at any point in the pregnancy. Women need to take responsibility for their actions, not use a cop out like killing a living thing just to make their life a little easier.
Sorry, the post with no name is mine. I don’t have my profile loaded in my PC at home and I didn’t notice that.
Sorry, the post with no name is mine. I don’t have my profile loaded in my PC at home and I didn’t notice that.
O.K. My PC at work crashed today and I had to reload my profile here too!!
“Women need to take responsibility for their actions, not use a cop out like killing a living thing just to make their life a little easier.”
So basically women, unless they wish to have a child, should never have sex then?? As far as I am aware, there is NO 100% birth-control method available except for no sex.
And when did having an abortion suddenly mean not taking responsibility for your actions??
And ‘make their life a little easier’? Wow! So you would rather a woman have the child? A child she clearly does not want?? Lovely, another unwanted, and most likely to be abused, child in the world. We definitely do not have enough of those around!
Now now Angie, don’t get out of hand. Not all of us agree that women should quit having sex.
I would certainly hope that an organization that supports late term abortion would be against charging someone with double homicide for killing a pregnant woman.
If they didn’t, the implication would be that they considered late-term abortion to be justifiable homicide, or that they supported charging people with crimes they hadn’t committed. Neither is very appealing.
They aren’t arguing that he shouldn’t be charged with homicide, or that the fact that the victim was pregnant shouldn’t be considered an aggravating feature of the crime (although I guess under California law that wouldn’t make it a capital offense), just that it shouldn’t be considered a double homicide.
If you _do_ consider late term abortion (or abortion in general) to be homicide, then I think you’re likely to have larger issues with NOW than this single case.
Oh God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
Abe says, “Man, you must be putting me on”
God say, “No”. Abe say, “What?”
God say, “You can do what you want Abe, but
The next time you see me comin’ you better run”
Well Abe says, “Where do you want this killing done?”
God says, “Out on Highway 61″.
-Dylan
Angie – Have you ever heard of adoption? There are other alternatives.
Yes, I have heard of adoption, but lets just assume that the baby won’t be white, what do you really think the chances are of that child getting into a good home?
And, its so easy for a male to say “have you heard of adoption”. They aren’t the ones who will be carrying around a child for nine months that they do not wish to have. They aren’t the ones whose body will be changing, permanently.
So yes, there are other options, but if a woman does not wish to have a child, and lets just assume she took the necessary precautions and they failed, why should she carry that child to term? Why should she go thru the pregnancy and labor?? Why should her life change when she wishes it not to?
Angie,
OK. Let’s turn the tables, then.
What if a man gets a woman pregnant, but doesn’t want his life to change? What if he took precautions (or relied on her to do so), and yet she somehow still gets pregnant?
What if the woman wants to keep the baby, but the man has no desire to become a father?
Should he have to support the kid? Should his “life change when he wishes it not to?”
I have to add one more comment, just because this topic is so near and dear to me.
Even though she was young and single, I’m very grateful that my mother decided to give me life rather than death.
Children are the most wonderful things on earth. They are also the most difficult things on earth. Rearing them is the most rewarding job that any human can accomplish.
Radley, dogs are a close second.
Radley,
He should not be responsible for the child if he does not wish to. I strongly believe that men should have an ‘out’, just as women do. And I don’t understand why any woman would want to force a man to support the child he clearly doesn’t want.
Now where it would get messy is when a man wants the child, but the woman does not.
Kim,
I completely agree. Children are the most wonderful things on earth. I have two very lovely boys myself and cannot imagine a day without hearing their laughter (and screams, and demands, and “I love you Mom”s :)
“And I don’t understand why any woman would want to force a man to support the child he clearly doesn’t want.”
$$$$$$$$
Nobody important,
My point was that a child deserves to feel as tho his parents want/care/love him. Why force someone into their lives that doesn’t?? Money won’t replace the ‘unwanted’ feeling that child would get.
Angie,
So being deprived of life is better than going through life feeling unwanted? This reminds me of the logic of the guy who killed his entire family in order to start a new life. He decided that they would be better off in heaven than living without him.
Also, I think it is just as easy for a female to say “have you heard of adoption”, and many do.
To me abortion is the ultimate in selfishness. I don’t want to forgo sex even though I know there is a risk of becoming pregnant; I don’t want to be inconvenienced by a baby; I don’t want to go through 9 months of pregnancy; I don’t want my life to change.
Nobody Important,
You are mixing up what I am saying. “So being deprived of life is better than going through life feeling unwanted? ” I was referring to forcing a male to contribute to a child he does not want. That is separate from the abortion point I was making.
“To me abortion is the ultimate in selfishness.” Yes, but just cause you feel this way does not make it right for others. You may feel its being selfish, others may feel they are doing what is right for their life. Everyone has the right to choose if they are to be a parent or not.
Why would you wish another to be a parent if that is not what they wish?? By doing so, you are nearly guaranteeing another unwanted/abused child. Is that really what this world needs??
“deprived of life” And!! (the things I think bout in the car) Did it occur to you while you were washing your hands that YOU just deprived a child of a life?? (g)
(making a huge assumption, based on your email, that you are male)
I am more than a male; I am a man. A male can be anything from puppies to RS-232 connectors.
I also had another thought, for those women who don’t want to change their lives, too late! It’s already changed, you cannot become unpregnant. The choices you make will last a lifetime. Choose wisely.
>>you cannot become unpregnant
Yes, it’s true that through birth or abortion you will no longer pregnant. By unpregnant I meant that a woman could not be restored to her state prior to conception. She will always have been pregnant. Her life will have been changed, for better or worse, and her decisions will have lifetime impact.
>>and her decisions will have lifetime impact
“Nothing to dwell on and think out.”
This is exactly the attitude that infuriates. Just like getting your hair cut, or trimming your nails. This is the core of the hypocrisy. I am somewhat in favor of a woman’s right to choose, as long as she is honest about what she is choosing. I don’t favor criminalization of abortion; I do favor social opprobrium.
“as long as she is honest about what she is choosing”
Yes, and she is choosing to not have a child at that time. So should she dwell on that decision till she’s old?? I never said that having an abortion is an easy decision, but once you make your decision, once you’ve accepted what it means by what you did, you need to move on.
Still not willing to admit what the choice is. Still prefer to use euphemisms and hide behind bland descriptions like “choosing to not have a child”. Hypocrisy. Why not admit that you are willing to sacrifice the life of a child for your own interests? I said I’m not in favor of criminalizing abortion and that women should be able to make that choice. Do not insist that I must accept the selfishness and hypocrisy.
And what of the father whose child is aborted? He may acquiese in the woman’s decision (what more could he do?) but the fate of his child may stay with him the rest of his life, too. Or should he just move on?
Again, selfishness and hypocrisy. I guess I expect too much from women. They’re more like men than they wish to admit.
“Still not willing to admit what the choice is” How am I not admitting what the choice is?? Its an abortion. Its choosing to not have a child. Should I quote the dictionary definition of abortion? Should I state it as crudely as possible?? Would you then be satified that I know what an abortion means?? (refraining from rolling my eyes)
“Why not admit that you are willing to sacrifice the life of a child for your own interests” And did I not state this above?? That there are many reasons (selfish and non-selfish) why someone may choose to not have a child? Are you saying you prefer a woman to have a child who does not feel she is capable at that point in her life to be a parent?
And again, every decision you make in your life, abortion or otherwise, is grouped into the selfish or non-selfish category. Should all those be over-analyzed as to if they are being made for what others might consider the right reasons?
“Do not insist that I must accept the selfishness and hypocrisy” Where did I insist upon anything?? Seems YOU are the one having problems with what I have to say. (smiles sweetly) You see it one way, I happen to disagree. Simple.
I agree, there are some abortions that are fully for selfish reasons. There are women that use abortion as a birth control method. But there are some, who use birth control, whose partner also uses birth control, and it fails.
“And what of the father whose child is aborted” I believe I have only touched upon this briefly above. This is something the two should discuss before even being intimate. I really can’t comment on this. There are too many “what ifs” to consider. But from your tone, I’m assuming you mean they did not discuss it, or if they had, she changed her mind. And that really sucks. And I would feel bad for a guy in that situation where they discuss having a child, and she chooses not to. My advise for him is to find someone who shares his dreams. What else can I add to this?? There are too many different situations that can pop up.
“selfishness and hypocrisy” I disagree. I don’t believe every abortion is for selfish reasons. Not really sure how I’m being a hypocrite here, but hey, if it makes you feel better to think I am, go for it ! :) More power to you man !!
“I guess I expect too much from women” I’m not really sure why this was thrown in. (shrugs) Maybe you have more issues to consider, and not just this abortion issue.
If a woman feels she is not ready to have a child, or to become a parent, she can always give the baby up for an adoption. After 21 days the baby’s heart starts to beat on its own. You cannot tell me that something with a heartbeat is not living! This baby did not choose for you to get pregnant, and it certainly would not choose for you to kill it. The woman should know that no birth control except abstinance is 100% accurrate, and therefore runs the risk of getting pregnant. She should be responsible for her actions and give the baby up for adoption if it isnt wanted, not kill it. Yes the choice is yours, please make it before you become pregnant. Look up abortion pictures online. You’de be amazed.
If a woman feels she is not ready to have a child, or to become a parent, she can always give the baby up for an adoption. After 21 days the baby’s heart starts to beat on its own. You cannot tell me that something with a heartbeat is not living! This baby did not choose for you to get pregnant, and it certainly would not choose for you to kill it. The woman should know that no birth control except abstinance is 100% accurrate, and therefore runs the risk of getting pregnant. She should be responsible for her actions and give the baby up for adoption if it isnt wanted, not kill it. Yes the choice is yours, please make it before you become pregnant. Look up abortion pictures online. You’d be amazed.