TheAgitator.com
Little Green Bullshit
Wednesday, March 19th, 2003I’ve defended Charles Johnson time and time again against accusations of bigotry. I haven’t visited his site in months.
If this is indicative of what he’s evolved into, I regret ever defending him.
As Glen Whitman rightly observes, yes, there apparently is a ritual in some sects of Islam where men are asked to bloodlet to show solidarity with a Muslim martyr. How is this indicative of “a cult of blood and death?”
Wasn’t it the cultured, Western God who asked Abraham (forgive if I’ve revealed my ignorance of Bible history, here) to sacrifice his son?
And, as Glen notes, is a little bloodletting really any more barbaric than cutting the tip off a baby boy’s penis days after his birth? And come to think of it, it is really any more barbaric than a culture that encourages women to, as Alina has aptly described it, slice open their breasts, slide in a bag of jelly, then sew them shut again?
The point: Everything’s relative. The “Has Islam Been Corrupted?” debate is a legitimate one. As is “Is Today’s Islam Compatible With Modernity?” Taking a religous ritual out of context to paint tens of millions of people as barbarians is not legitimate debate. Johnson is sensationalizing, preying (praying?) on the swell of cheap bigotry that takes place just before a nation goes to war.
Oh well. At least he got a lot of traffic.
>Wasn’t it the cultured, Western God >who asked Abraham (forgive if I’ve >revealed my ignorance of Bible >history, here) to sacrifice his son?
Sigh. Yes, and it was that same God who would not allow Abraham to carry out the request. If the picture that the Torah and the book of Judges paints is credible, then Judaism was against ritual human sacrifice.
Women who slice their breasts open, slide in jelly and then have them sown shut do this by choice. I can’t believe you would second that opinion, Radley. Also, the chopping off of a child’s penis after birth is at least done at an age where none of us remembers it. Imagine being five or so and having your head sliced open?
SH
Christians believe that they actually _drink_ blood. Discuss…
What about, say, rodeo, where thousands
of people gather and the highlight reels
on the jumbotron spotlight riders getting gored…
And that’s just for fun.
“Everything’s relative”?
Oh, my.
Radley,
I have enjoyed your article and agree with much of what you say but on this I can’t agree with you. If this were the only incident, I might could follow your lead and chalk it up to culture but it’s not. These people are wrong to do something like this to children, just plain wrong. If it happens in our society then that’s wrong too. But to compare it with breast implants is just insane. Other cases include the brainwashing of their young men and women to strap explosives to themselves and blow up civilians of other races and religions. As this could possibly help matters. I truly believe you would not defend them if you were thinking straight. These are the people who hijacked our airliners and flew them into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania for God’s sake. The same people and you are defending their culture! Wake up man, they are as barbaric as it comes. I don’t claim that all of them are this way, but the people in these pictures and others who would participate in this kind of ritual are sick (mentally) and should not be condoned by the likes of you or anyone else.
Will, just Catholics. Not all Christians.
whats a little blood amongst friends?
These are the people who hijacked our airliners and flew them into the WTC, Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania for God’s sake.
actually, they’re not. the people who flew hijacked planes into the WTC despise them.
Radley,
The account of Abraham and Isaac represents precisely the opposite of that which you claim.
The whole point of the story is that God would never force a human to sacrifice their own son for the sake of humanity. And yet that is precisely what He did — sending Christ for us — for the sake of humanity.
Believe it or don’t believe it — but at least understand the story. It perfectly illustrates for humans how great a sacrifice God made by putting up his son Jesus Christ to atone for our sins. And, of course, what a great act Christ himself performed on account of us.
Also, in a ‘literature’ sense and a ‘prophesy’ sense, it is a good example of how stories and accounts in the Old Testament are mirrored or fulfilled in the New Testament.
Omg!!!!
As a mother of two incredible boys, I have to say that seeing that picture … that is just SO wrong !!!
A mother is suppose to PROTECT their child from harm (from others and themselves), not encourage them to do that!! A mother is suppose to teach their children right from wrong, and how to think for themselves. Not follow the crowd just for the sake of following. Not for traditional reasons. JC!! No kid should be using a sword on himself!!!
You have now seen the face of another sheep.
Luca,
I am catholic, and I dont think they drink blood. Infact none of my freinds think that either.
Radley, on one hand, yes, everything is sort of relative.
BUT, some rituals are just plain screwed up and destructive, and there ain’t no relative about it. For example, if people in Mexico were still practicing Aztec rites involving cutting out people’s hearts and dumping buckets of blood all over God knows what, that would be pretty damn screwed up, and saying “everything’s relative” just wouldn’t wash.
Also, your breast implant comparison is way off base, mainly because its not a ritual. If women were encouraged to march down the street in groups, chanting “Death to The Infidel” while performing cosmetic surgery on themselves, you may have a point, but that’s not the way it happens.
I like your site, please keep up the good work.
Chris:
Catholics do believe they drink the actual blood of Christ. In the Roman Catholic faith, it is believed that the wine and bread go through transubstantiation, where they become the blood and body of Christ but retain their appearance.
My appologies, I thought you were refering to the moslem men. You are correct.
First for those who are confused, this is a Shiite custom. It has nothing to do with the teachings of Islam, and has everything to do with a political split between believers.
Second, it is ritualistic and as harmless/harmful as having your kids ears pierced, having your son circumcised, or taking your kids to see Jackass, the movie.
Third, is this practice (which permanently harms noone) worse than that of a culture (American) which celebrates violence and gore as *entertainment* so much that it feels the need to export it as a product to the entire world? Not to mention that the U.S. has the highest rate of citizens shooting each other of any nation not in a civil war.
A certain saying about glass houses comes to mind.
I don’t want to argue that this is completely harmless. however, I will say that it’s a hell of a lot more harmless than, say, flying hijacked planes into buildings full of civilians, or having your security forces drown people in acid… neither of which were done by this particular sect.
I think what Radley’s trying to say isn’t exactly “I approve of this” but more like “let’s get some perspective”.
It’s difficult to put into perspective when considering the entire context of the ritual. If, after lacerating themselves, they take to the streets chanting “Death to Isreal, Death to America”, then we should all be concerned about the ritual, be it Shiite, Muslim or otherwise.
I am not familiar with any (mainstream) Judeo-Christian or Eastern religious rituals that are followed by calls for “death” to others. (Don’t bring my attention to any extremist, Aryan “Christian” groups for which I’m alreay familiar. That’s why I stated “mainstream” above.)
Circumsision (male) is done mainly for cleanliness and health reasons these days. I have known of grown men to get the opp done (ouch) because they have had infections under the flap.
When I was born, they did it automatically in NYC unless the parents forbade it. As a libertarian I find the state taking a big of my knob off appalling but I am glad it happened.
Radley: did you even read the articles linked in that entry? This was no harmless ritual; it was accompanied by calls for jihad and “Death to America.”
Call on the clue phone for Mr. Balko of the Regurgitator.
“Wasn’t it the cultured, Western God who asked Abraham (forgive if I’ve revealed my ignorance of Bible history, here) to sacrifice his son?”
if jews or christians were doing that now it would probably raise some eyebrows.
Can I just say that the amount of blood produced by a wound can be highly deceptive?
Just because they’re so bloody doesn’t mean they’re inflicting major wounds on themselves, nor that the wounds are particularly painful.
I don’t think the top of the head has very many nerve endings, so it isn’t terribly sensitive, but it probably has lots of small blood vessels, considering how much heat is lost through the head.
Hell, you can have your scalp *torn off* and it’s not necessarily fatal.
Few nerves = little pain.
Lots of blood vessels = lots of blood.
I’d guess that these wounds are really no worse than several particularly bloody razor nicks, perhaps with the blood made to flow more readily by sweat, and spreading to cover more of the body and looking nastier.
Anyhow, I don’t think this is a particularly significant thing. It’s no more horrifying than any of the other religious practices which involve causing yourself pain – among Christians, Muslims, or any other religions. Philipine Christians being crucified, Indian Fakirs piercing their skin, Catholics whipping their backs with sharp chains.
Anyone who thinks this particular religious rite is particularly extreme, or that self-mutilation is somehow uniquely Muslim, needs to expand their education before passing judgement.
If, after lacerating themselves, they take to the streets chanting “Death to Isreal, Death to America”, then we should all be concerned about the ritual, be it Shiite, Muslim or otherwise.
no, if they take to the streets chanting “death to America, death to Israel”, then we should all be concerned about the chanting of “death to America, death to Israel”.
note that to date, one (1) radical Islamist sect has carried out a large scale terrorist attack on American soil. that sect does not observe this holiday. in fact, it’s had people (in Yemen) arrested for observing this holiday. if you’re suggesting there’s a correlation between Ashoura ritual and propensity for terrorism, the evidence is against you. if you’re not suggesting a correlation, then what’s the point of being uniquely “concerned” about it?
(p.s. yes, I’ve heard of Hezbollah. I’m not saying there’s a negative correlation, only that there’s no positive correlation.)