TheAgitator.com
Lies of War
Sunday, December 8th, 2002“Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes. And armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended. Its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force of the people. The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war…and in the degeneracy of manners and morals, engendered by both. No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare.”
– James Madison, April 20, 1795
Jesse Walker points to an AlterNet story about the infamous incubator hoax that helped stir sentiment for the first Gulf War. It seems that HBO resurrects the story — and does nothing to reveal it was a hoax all along — in its new movie “Live From Baghdad.”
Lots of you have questioned why I harbor such mistrust for the current Bush administration when it comes to the way it has made the case for war. After all, he seems like a nice enough guy, right? And he sure as hell isn’t Bill Clinton.
Well, part of it stems from my default mistrust of government in general — especially in times of war (anyone care to discuss the Gulf of Tonkin?). But there’s also plenty of evidence out there that’s damning of current Bush officials (most notably, Vice Presidnet Cheney) when it comes to how they conducted themselves the last time we went into Iraq. And the Hill-Knowlton manufactured story about Iraqi soldiers yanking Kuwaiti babies from incubators and slamming them to the ground is a fine example.
It was Bush’s father, his political cronies and Dick Cheney’s Pentagon that propogated this story to arouse support for the first Gulf War. I think it’s fairly reasonable to conclude they knew it wasn’t true — or at the very least, they had every reason to suspect its authenticity. But the story served a useful purpose, and so the Bush 41 administration ran with it — to the point where then-President Bush employed it in his address to the United Nations.
Gene Healy points out in an upcoming issue of Liberty magazine that it was also Dick Cheney’s Pentagon that warned us in the weeks leading up to the Gulf War that Iraq had amassed 250,000 troops and 1,500 tanks on the Saudi border. That assertion led Americans to believe that this tyrant was hellbent on conquering all the Middle East. In truth, Hussein had a grievance only with Kuwait, whom he thought was cheating him in the oil market. That of course isn’t license for invasion, but it’s also important to point out to refute U.S. officials’ fearmongering at the time.
Last September, the Christian Science Monitor reported that satellite photos taken at the time the Pentagon assured us Saddam was preparing to invade Saudi Arabia show nothing but desert in the areas he was allegedly amassing troops.
We’re now dealing with essentially the same conflict in the same region with the same villain. Many of the same people who lied to us the last time around are again urging us to take them at their word when they tell us that Iraq is a threat to U.S. national security. Over and over we’re told that Saddam’s an imperialist — and that he’s prepared (or already has) to carry out acts of terrorism against U.S. interests. Over and over again we’re asked to believe these assertions without any meaningful evidence.
I’ll ask again:
If they lied to us ten years ago, why should we believe them now?
I think that not trusting the government is a pretty sound general principle whether it’s a time of war or not.
I’d never heard of the Kuwaiti incubator babies before this. I don’t know what to make of it. On one hand I certainly don’t like when the government lies. On the other I expect some propoganda. In the case of the gulf war I don’t think that story mattered. We had a clear interest in liberating Kuwait and a justification in that we were both asked by Kuwait and SA to intervene .
I don’t know what to tell you about the Christian Science Monitor report. The Iraquis sure as hell had a lot of stuff at the border when the shooting started. And I think that most of it had been there for more than a few weeks.
I’m also not sure about Saddam’s imperialistic intentions but after fighting to pretty much a draw with Iran and invading Kuwait I think there’s a pretty good case that expansion had crossed his mind a time or two.
How dare you expose the truth in these sensitive times!?!? This is not a time to think or question what the good ol’ USA is doing! It is a time of war! Are you pro-communist, er I mean pro-terrorist or something? Boy, I wish Senator McCarthy were here right now… he’d put you in your place! (a military prison without legal representation for TREASON)
Radley’s an anti-American pinko!
LOL
The Government Lie? No way!!!
Again,
Dear Mr Bush,
Prove to us that Sadam is as bad to us as you say he wants to be. Otherwise, kiss your father’s enemy and make up.
Yours Truly,
A skeptic
Y’all should cut President Bush a little slack, here.
If he presents the hard evidence you ask for, before the moment we are ready to start this war, Saddam will know:
> What we know.
> When we knew it.
> and have a pretty good idea who told us.
Net result: WMDs moved to new hiding places, sources killed, and we’re back to square one — or even back to square zero, since Saddam will have some more time to perfect his arsenal.
One thing that our leaders have learned since Vietnam is that information, presented in the absence of wisdom for its interpretation, can become disinformation.
Remember that the deliberations that produced our Constitution and Bill of Rights were also held in secret, albeit for the reason of preserving candor and open minds among our leaders, instead of national-security concerns.
This is why character counts when leaders are elected — there are times when you do have to trust them to act in your best interests away from the public eye.
And if, as some assert, this was “all about oil”, Iraq and Kuwait would both have been annexed by the US in 1991.
Alright Rich, you got me. I don’t trust GWB, I guess he’s just a plain bad leader in my eyes.
This is what so irks me. Those who argue the “all about oil” argument, saying we’re going to go into Iraq and take all their oil are obviously wrong. But I’m not sure that’s what most of them are saying. I think the argument goes like this:
a) Us threatening to go into Iraq throws the world oil markets into doubt.
b) The price of oil goes up.
c) Oil companies make huge profits.
The war doesn’t even have to begin for it to be a huge windfall for the President, VP, and their friends. However the war has a double benefit– further destabilization of the oil markets, and a huge new consuming interest, specifically the war itself.
It is prudent to be skeptical of government claims in all things, but there is a danger in paranoia as well. Sometimes — indeed, usually — the government tells the truth.
Radley, you’ve argued that the lack of evidence of a link between Iraq and Al Queda has been instrumental in your opposition to war. Fair enough, But what if such evidence surfaces, such as in this Washington Post story?
I don’t think you side with the anti-American left who thinks the Administration wants to take us to war for oil or because they love death and distruction. Surely you think they at least believe they are doing the right thing. So who knows? This just might be true.
Sorry, thought HTML worked in these comments. Here’s the Post link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42876-2002Dec11.html
Bush is a liar and a war monger. The ruling classes don’t give a damn about
anyone. If Bush is so worried about ruthless dictators why did America let
the Bosnian people be massacred, prop up Mobutu in Zaire for 25 years.
allow the Kuwaiti Royal Family oppress their people, give Israel nuclear
weapons etc etc. Anyone with an IQ over 90 can see the hypocrisy.
THE TRUTH WILL BE KNOWN NO MATTER HOW ONE MAY TRY TO COVER THE TRUTH IT WILL ALWAYS SURFACE.
THE TRUTH WILL BE KNOWN NO MATTER HOW ONE MAY TRY TO COVER THE TRUTH IT WILL ALWAYS SURFACE.
DID YOU NOTICE THERE WERE VERY FEW IRAQIS AROUND SADDAMS STATUE BEFORE IT FELL.
FOR A CITY OF 5 MILLION IN THE CENTER OF THE CITY IN THE DAYLIGHT OF THE AFTERNOON HOW COME ?
AHAMAD CHALEBI WAS FLOWN IN BY THE PENTAGON WITH 700 HUNDRED OF HIS SOLDIERS TO NASRIAH.
THE U.S. MILITARY MADE CHALEBIS SOLDIERS TAKE THERE UNIFORMS OFF AND START INITIATING TAKING DOWN OF THE STATUE.
WIDE SCREEN CAMERAS FROM REUTERS SHOW DOZENS OF US TANKS KEEPING GUARD IN THE BACK GROUND.
AHAMD CHALEBIS OF THE IRAQIS NATIONAL CONGRESS SOLIDERS — LOOK MIDDLE EASTERN SO WHEN THEY WERE DRESSED IN CIVILIAN CLOTHING KNOWBODY DETECTED THEY WERE SOLDIERS UNDER U.S. DIRECTION.
THIS CREATED THE TIDAL WAVE THAT CARRIED ON TO THE REAL IRAQI CIVILIANS CARRYING SADDAMS HEAD DOWN THE STREET. AND FURTHER CHAOS
LESSON TO ALL DICTATORS : DON’T HAVE TOO MANY STATUES OF YOUR SELF. THEY WILL LEAD TO YOUR DOWN FALL.
THE US GOVERNMENT CAREFULLY ORCHESTRATED A MOB OF SOLDIERS DRESSED LIKE CIVILIANS THAT MADE A DRAMATIC SCENE THAT LED TO THE FURTHER CHAOS OF BAGHDAD.
RULE 1 : IT DOSEN’T ALWAYS SEEM THE WAY IT LOOKS
Posted by: OPERATION IRAQI CONSPIRACY at April 11, 2003 09:56 PM
RULE 2: Sometimes, it does seem the way it looks. How do you explain the women and children in the “carefully orchestrated mob of soldiers”?
Posted by: unconspiracy at April 12, 2003 03:58 AM
WE ARE LOOKING FOR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION –
WHO SUPPLIED SADDAM WITH WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ?
WE KNOW THE IRAQIS DONT HAVE THE BRAINS AND TECHNOLOGY TO MAKE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION.
WHO SUPPLIED THE RAW MATERIALS FOR THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ?
EUROPEAN AND AMERICAN FORTUNE 500 CHEMICAL COMPANIES SUPPLIED CHEMICALS FOR WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION !!!
******WHEN THERE IS NEWS VIDEO THAT SHOWS RUMSFELD SHAKING SADDAMS HAND AND HAVING TEA AT ONE OF HIS PALACES IN 1983
– HOW COME IT WAS OKAY FOR IRAQ TO HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION BACK THEN !!!!
(GO TO GOOGLE AND SEARCH — “RUMSFELD MEETS SADDAM”
HOW COME RUMSFELD NEVER TALKS ABOUT THIS MEETING
READ THE FACTS AND DECIDE FOR YOURSELF !!!!!!!
Posted by: OPERATION IRAQI CONSPIRACY at April 12, 2003 10:41 AM
America, the people of, will sends its officals and its non-government conrolled press to talk and listen to lies of leaders. Saddam and his followers like Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf. America will wait until the evidence is in. Then make a majority vote on responce, 13 years in this case. America does not put its people into war from an overnight claim. When America goes to war its for the win and loss is not an option. Remember that in a free country we have the right to elect new leaders every 4 years. So what you see in the past is not, the today. The today is for the future. If it turns out for the good, we did our best. If it turns for the worst, we did our best.
Long live America, Long live Freedom and may the Iraqi people learn to savor the flavor of Freedom.
Posted by: US and the Press at April 12, 2003 04:16 PM
WAS SADDAM A REAL THREAT ?
HE WAS AN EX - CIA AGENT. SADDAM WAS USED TO
PREVENT IRAN FROM EXPORTING ITS ISLAMIC
PARTY OF GOD REVOLUTION TO THE REST OF THE
MIDDLE EAST REGION AND SHIA MUSLIM COUNTRIES.
SADDAM WAS A U.S. ALLY AT THAT TIME AND WAS ENCOURAGED AND
SUPPLIED WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION BY THE
UNITED STATES TO ATTACK IRAN. THEN SADDAM GOT
SMART — BETRAYED THE USA AND ATTACKED KUWAIT.
THIS SCARED THE HELL OUT OF THE USA BECAUSE OF
THE OIL RESERVES AND SADDAM ALL OF A SUDDEN
BECAME THEIR ENEMY.
*** THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF THE AMERICAN
PEOPLE DID NOT DYE FOR FREEDOM — RATHER DIRTY
POLITICS AND ECONOMICS.
SADDAM TURNED ON THE USA. IF IRAQ DID
NOT HAVE OIL — THE USA AND WORLD WOULD HAVE
FORGOTTEN ABOUT THEM LIKE RWANDA AND BOSNIA FOR
7 YEARS AND LET THEM LIVE OPPRESSED AND CONTINUE
GENOCIDE. BUT OIL ALL OF A SUDDEN MAKES A
COUNTRY IMPORTANT. AS BUSH SAYS “STRATEGIC”
1) WHAT THREAT ? HIS REGIME LASTED FOR ONLY 3 WEEKS !!!!
2) SADDAM DID NOT EVEN GET ONE FIGHTER PLANE IN THE SKY
3) SADDAM DID NOT USE CHEMICAL WEAPONS
4) SADDAM FIRED 6 MISSLES AT KUWAIT AND ONLY ONE MADE IT THROUGH AND IT CAUSED MINIMAL DAMAGE. –
THE REST OF THE MISSLES WERE TAKEN DOWN BY PATRIOTS
5) SADDAM ONLY MANAGED TO KILL A 170 SOLDIERS.
6) FOR A ARMY FORCE OF 300,000 THAT IS 0.00001 %
WHAT A JOKE.
7) WE ARE GOING TO SPEND A $ 100 BILLION DOLLARS TO PROTECT OURSELVES FROM SUCH A JOKE HARMLESS REGIME — WHAT A WASTE OF TAX PAYERS HARD EARNED DOLLARS.
ALL THE STATUES, FEAR, REPUBLICAN GUARDS, SADDAM FEDEYEEN TURNED OUT TO BE BULL SHIT. ALL WERE WEAK — ALL HYPE
WHAT A CONSPIRACY — BUT THE SMALL TOWN FAMILY
OR MILITARY MAN OR WOMEN DOESN’T SEE THE BIG
PICTURE BUT NOW YOU SEE.
WOULD RUMSFELD, TOMMY FRANKS, OR BUSH SEND THEIR
DAUGHTER , OR SON TO RISK THEIR LIFE FOR A
ECONOMIC WAR . I WOULD LOVE IT IF SOME ONE ASKED
THEM !!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU MUST FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY IF IT FACES
INVASION OR THE ENEMY IS GOING TO TAKE YOUR HOME
NOT TO RISK YOUR LOVED ONES FOR A BIG POLITICAL ECOMOMIC CONSPIRACY. MONEY MONEY MONEY !!!!!
READ THE FACTS AND DECIDE YOURSELF.
SPREAD THE NEWS !!!!!!
Posted by: OPERATION IRAQI CONSPIRACY at April 13, 2003 02:48 PM
I figured what the Un-conventional weapon was. It was the laying down their own weapons and leaving before anyone knew they were there. You can not get any more non-conventional than that, can you?
Anyone have any idea when the last time a complete army just evaporated?
Posted by: Rabbit at April 14, 2003 01:28 PM
CIA CUTS A DEAL WITH SADDAM — LAST MINUTE !!!!!
ACCORDING TO THE INTERNATIONAL NEWS AGENCY — BAGHDAD BUREAU
WHEN U.S. SOLDIERS ARRIVED AT BAGHDAD AIRPORT — CIA CUT A DEAL WITH SADDAM AND SONS AND TOP MILITARY OFFICIALS TO ALLOW THE RUSSIANS TO EXILE THEM TO AN UNDISCLOSED ISLAND OFF GREECE — IN RETURN FOR GIVING UP BAGHDAD AND NOT USING CHEMICAL WEAPONS.
THIS IS WHY THE IRAQIS DID NOT USE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION AND THE SO CALLED SADDAM FEDEYEEN AND REPUBLICAN GUARDS DID NOT PUT UP A FIGHT IN BAGHDAD AND TIKRIT. SADDAMS HOME TOWN.
ALL THE TOP OFFICALS FLED ON RUSSIAN SPECIAL OPERATIONS HELICOPTERS AND THE ARMY COLLAPSED.
THE U.S.A GOVERNMENT WANTS TO COVER THIS UP FROM THE GENERAL AMERICAN PUBLIC JUST LIKE PREVIOUS EVENTS SUCH AS ASSASINATION OF JOHN F. KENNEDY.
THIS IS WHY THE MEDIA GAME AND PENTAGON BRIEFINGS AND GAMES AS TO WHERE IS SADDAM CONTINUE. OR IS HE ALIVE OR DEAD.
THE ORDINARY AMERICAN PUBLIC AND THE POOR MILITARY FAMILIES OF DEAD SOLDIERS ARE BEING PLAYED AGAIN BY GOOD OLD UNCLE SAM.
SADDAM AND HIS SONS WILL LIVE COMFORTABLE FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES WITH THE $ 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS IN COVERED UP BANK ACCOUNTS IN SWITZERLAND AND ILES OF MANN.
SADDAM WAS SMART — HE HELD BACK UNTIL THE LAST MOMMENT. HOWEVER, WHEN HE SAW THE TROOPS AT THE GATES OF BAGHDAD HE DECIDED TO GIVE UP INSTEAD OF COMMITING SUICIDE OR USING CHEMICAL WEAPONS THAT WOULD HAVE KILLED HIS OWN PEOPLE AND DESTROY HIS NAME IN HISTORY FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS TO COME.
IT WAS IN THE U.SA. BEST INTEREST TO REDUCE AMERICAN, BRITISH, AUSTRALIAN CASULTIES , IF SADDAM USED CHEMICAL WEAPONS. ALSO IT WOULD HAVE CONTAMINATED BAGHDAD. THE USA TOOK ALL THIS INTO ACCOUNT AND DECIDED IT IS IN THEIR BEST INTEREST TO GET RID OF SADDAM BY NEGOTIATION.
IN 25 TO 60 YEARS THE FILES WILL BE DE CLASSIFIED BY THE CIA AND THE NEXT GENERATION OF AMERICANS WILL LEARN OF THE BETRAYAL OF THEIR GOVERNMENT.
BY THE WAY THE US TROOPS DIDN,T GUARD THE PRICELESS ANTIQUES AND ARTIFACTS IN THE MUSEUM BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN INSTRUCTED TO LET IRAQIS WIPE OUT THEIR ROOTS OF CIVILIZATION SO THE FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL NOT KNOW THEIR ROOTS AND A NEW WESTERN IRAQ WILL EMERGE WITHOUT TRACES OF PREVIOUS CULTURE AND LESS CHANCE TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO CHANGE THE REGIME IN THE FUTURE.
IF THEY DONT HAVE PROOF ABOUT THEIR ROOTS, THEY WON’T ASK FOR CHANGE IN 20 YEARS FROM NOW. THEY WILL BE BORN INTO A WESTERN IRAQ AND THE FUTURE GENERATIONS WILL ADAPT TO THIS.
READ THE FACTS AND DECIDE FOR YOUR SELF !!!
SPREAD THE WORD
Posted by: OPERATION IRAQI CONSPIRACY at April 18, 2003 02:33 PM
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