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Thursday, September 26th, 2002Every time I write something critical of the drug war, you can pretty much buy stock in two things happening. First, there’s this same fellow who writes each time I post something drug-related and expresses his deepest desire that each and every one of my children develops a violent, chronic drug habit. He’s my favorite. He hasn’t written me yet, but I’m sure he will.
The second is that I’ll get a series of replies from people who will accuse me of favoring decriminalization for the sole purpose of my being able to smoke weed with my friends. The first of those arrived at 1:39am this morning, 99 minutes after the column went live:
I believe you are the propagandist and hypocrite Mr. Balko, (typical crap from liberal minded media). I applaud the efforts to show the link between the drug trade and the terrorists. All of the items you list as aid to so called drug interdiction was approved and paid for by our liberal legislators and previous unethical administration. By the way, don’t forget that the President doesn’t spend money, only Congress. Now, just like the current effort to protect ourselves from Iraq and other crazies in the terrorist regimes, the current administration is having to clean up the former administration’s mess. Don’t even try to convince me of anything otherwise. You are probably smoking the stuff yourself under the guise of preventing glaucoma or some such nonsense.
I like running responses like these because there’s really no need to refute them. It just doesn’t get much better than, “Don’t even try to convince me of anything otherwise.” I’ll save this guy the embarassment of posting his name.
Radley,
First, let me start by saying; I hope all of your progeny grow up to be crack whores. Was that what you had in mind? Did it lack sincerity? How about this; May you spawn end up giving head at interstate restrooms to pay for thier heroine addiction. And that?? This making blogger’s dream come true is tough work!!
This is probably all wasted on you because you are probably wasted on weed while you read this.
Just kidding,
Matt
On the other hand, while the person may respond unpleasantly, he seems to really look forward to your postings.
I especially loved thes little tidbits from his email:
“typical crap from liberal minded media”. Hmm, I thought Radley was a libertarian. I love when extreme righties call libertarians left wing and extreme lefties call us right wing. It’s like some people are too intellectually challenged to comprehend a person who isn’t right or left. You are either a liberal or a conservative with these folks and anything that challenges that childish worldview is ignored.
“By the way, don’t forget that the President doesn’t spend money, only Congress”. Umm, Congress authorizes how money is spent, but the Administration actually does the spending, except in upsidedownland where he resides.
I hope that guy isn’t working around any sharp objects.
On a more serious note:
You bring up some good points of the negatives of the drug war. However, don’t you think the positives out-way the negatives. Police may kill some innocent people. But they also try to keep people from ruining their lives (and their childrens lives) by making drugs “hard to get”.
Even so, I think that the international drug effort is pointless. Even if we did stop the international flow of drugs, people can still make drugs in their own home. I live in Iowa, and 95% of the drugs that people use here are marijuana and meth, both home grown.
I think government needs to spend the drug war money on drug prevention instead. Focusing their efforts on why people/kids start using drugs and how to get addicted people off of drugs.
“…the positives out-way the negatives. Police may kill some innocent people.”
are you kidding wasting 7 year old girls and shooting farmers in the back is outweighed by what… the fact that some poor working class slob can’t smoke a joint when he wants to. You have some messed up views on the value of a human life.
They can’t ignore the truth forever
keep up the good work Radley
Doni, this week a survey came out that indicated that high school students find it easier to get marijuana than either booze or cigarettes.
“Hard to get” does not describe the situation at all. The legal drugs are better-controlled.
Evan,
You are right, I don’t think any person’s life should be put on the line for the drug war.
But that fact is that innocent people get caught in the cross fire all the time for more than just the drug war. That is a fact of life. Should we stop putting people on death row because a couple of innocent people were put to death. (Note: I oppose the death penalty) Shouldn’t we exclude ourselves from every war - because innocent people are always caught in the cross fire.
I’m not saying I believe this, but it is something to think about. Maybe there are more lives saved by the government’s efforts to keep drugs out of the hands our American citizens than taken by the drug war.
And what about the innocent lives taken by the drug users. Have you ever seen the movie Trainspotting? It is a movie about herion users - in it is a scene where a baby died from neglect because the caregivers where to high to take care of him. If the drug war can prevent cases like this, then I think it is a success.
“wasting 7 year old girls and shooting farmers in the back is outweighed by what… the fact that some poor working class slob can’t smoke a joint when he wants to” - NO, IT IS NOT WORTH IT. But the drug war is worth it IF it keeps hundreds of innocent children from being destroyed by their parents who use dangerous, addictive drugs.
Undertoad,
I agree to an extent. A study does not mean that that is true everywhere, all the time. However, if we would legalize marijuana use for adults, how would that make it harder for teenagers to get marijuana? And what about other drugs? Should we legalize all drugs to be able to better control them?
I don’t have a firm stand on the legalization of recreational drugs. There are always pros and cons to both sides.
Think about how our prescription drugs are regulated and how tobacco and alcohol are regulated. I’m not sure if recreational drugs could be regulated in the same way. For one, some street drugs are cooked up at home - how could you regulate those. We would still have a “war” on dangerous, illegal drugs.
A few questions for those of you who want to legalize drugs:
Should drugs be made legal to use for everyone, or just people over the age of 21 (like alcohol).
Should all drugs be made legal, just marijuana, “organic” drugs, or only the drugs that aren’t highly addictive.
If street drugs are going to be legal, how we will regulate that the drugs are “safe” to use. Should the be controlled in the same way as prescription drugs?
Doni said: “But the drug war is worth it IF it keeps hundreds of innocent children from being destroyed by their parents who use dangerous, addictive drugs.”
I get it, it’s okay for Drug Warriors to kill children and the elderly, cause after all we’re trying to save the children from their parents. I’ll pass on that kind of help. Murder is murder, whether it was performed in a drive-by made possible by the lucrative profits that accompany prohibition or whether it is sanctioned by a bureaucrat in Washington and their drug war apologist accomplices.
I fail to see how it is “worth it” when children and the elderly are being murdered by our government in the same of saving them from themselves. It appears that we do indeed need to be saved - from control freaks who think that morality and self-control can be legislated and mandated by the iron fist of the government. Saving us by killing us, how Orwellian.
Help me by leaving me alone.
James,
I didn’t say that I don’t think the drug war is good the way it is. Did you not read my entire comment:
NO, IT IS NOT WORTH IT.
I don’t think we should give up on the drug war, I think it needs to be changed, drastically.
I’ll say this again: I think government needs to focus their efforts on drug use prevention.
Read the Book, Amazing Grace by Jonathan Kozol. This might change your mind about the effects of drug use AND why we have a war on drugs AND, of course, that the war on drugs needs to be reformed, not thrown out. The book talks about the ghetto in New York - how the drug use there is not controlled because police are too scared of the drug dealers to do anything about it.
For those of you who write with anger and personal attacks - you won’t change anyone’s mind unless you write a logical, well thought out response, that examines the whole picture with an open mind.
It’s good to see a young guy (you) who’s being heard, supporting freedom in the way Milton Friedman and others do. There are far too few people in this group.
I for one am a conservative in most political areas, but a Libertarian when it comes to drug use and other victimless crimes (when’s the last time you heard that phrase?).
God save us from the zealots of the far left and far right. I prefer the lesser of the two evils, the right; but I sure wish I could open their eyes. Some of the conservative wing are just as intrusive as their enemies, the big government liberals. Yet they don’t even see that their imposition of their so-called morality on everyone else is authoritative zealotry, just as the PC movement seeks to be. I’ll be glad to help fight this any way I can.
James,
You said:
It appears that we do indeed need to be saved - from control freaks who think that morality and self-control can be legislated and mandated by the iron fist of the government.
Does this mean that a mother who beats her child should be left alone because she has no self control. Should a 40 year old man be allowed to have sex with a 16 year old because he has no morals.
We live in a democracy. Don’t blame the government, blame the voters. As a voter, I support those in favor of regulating “moral issues” when those issues affect my children, and other innocent victims of those so-called moral issues.
You can dump drug use into one big category. There is a distinct difference in the affect to yourself and other when it come to smoking pot vs. herion addiction.
Drug use is not always a victimless crime. Any mother whose teenager has OD’ed with agree with me. You can’t expect a teenager to know how much is too much any more that you can expect a ,medical patient to know how much prescription painkillers to take.
revision - I meant “You can’t dump drug use into one big category”
Renae said: “Does this mean that a mother who beats her child should be left alone because she has no self control. Should a 40 year old man be allowed to have sex with a 16 year old because he has no morals.”
Huh? There is a difference between some mommy fascist legislating against ingestion of whatever substance you wish to ingest and a person’s right to life. A mother who beats her child has violated that child’s rights by assaulting the child. That’s assault. It is not an issue of self-control, it’s about violence and the child’s rights. Poof, big old straw man in the wind. Watch it blow away.
The law protects the rights of the child and doesn’t care about whether the woman has self-control. The child’s rights exist regardless of another person’s ability to control themselves. The woman wouldn’t be charged with having a lack of self-control, she’d be charged with assaulting a child. To those of us paying attention, there is a world of difference between the two.
What Drug Warriors and their murderous accomplices are attempting to do is legislate self-control onto others by banning SOME addictive substances. Laws already exist to protect children from abusive parents. Banning drugs only causes addicts to keep it a secret in order to avoid legal repercussions, instead of seeking help.
James,
You are right - that was a bad analogy. But I don’t think legalizing drugs will compel any addict to seek help.
Renae also said: “We live in a democracy. Don’t blame the government, blame the voters. As a voter, I support those in favor of regulating “moral issues” when those issues affect my children, and other innocent victims of those so-called moral issues.”
Actually, we live in a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. There is a difference.
Hmmm, let’s revist the straw man.
Suppose a mother beats up her child because he keeps interrupting her during her favorite soap opera. Should we ban watching soap operas?
Suppose a mother beats up her child for interrupting her bridge club. Should we ban card playing?
Suppose a mother beats up her child for spilling soda on her new cashmere sweater. Should we ban cashmere sweaters?
Or maybe we should ban mothers?
Or should we ban children?
If you are really all about saving the children, the answer would be yes. Ban, ban, ban and don’t stop banning until everything is illegal.
Doni said:
“…a baby died from neglect because the caregivers where to high to take care of him. If the drug war can prevent cases like this, then I think it is a success.”
Under this obtuse form of logic we should also declare a war on vehicles. How many times in the past year have children died from being left in a vehicle that sat in the blistering sun for hours on end?
It’s asanine to legislate personal responsibility. You see thats what it all comes down to… Americans have a serious problem with accepting personal responsibilty for their actions, they seem, rather, to expect the government to take that responsibility for them.
Bascially, if a someone wants to sit in his house and mainline draino who are you to tell him he cant? Is he harming you? Has he injured you? Has he stormed into your house in the middle of the night completely decked out in combat gear and shot you in the chest six times?
Remember the new golden rule:
“Your rights end where mine begin.”
Drug War Terrorism
I have the agree with you that the mistakes made during our war against drugs are terrible. I have a two part question for you, what are your views on illegal drug usage and how would you try to reduce or eliminate illegal drug use?
Before you answer the above question let me tell you a little about myself and how drugs have effected me. I personally don’t use drugs but some friends and family do. Drugs have not only taken a heavy toll on their lives but also my own. All the resources emotionally and finacially that I have put into helping them ends in frustration. And in one case, drug usage has even costed me the life of a loved one.
Now since you have enough insight and knowledge on this subject to point the finger at our goverments policies, don’t you think that you could share that wisdom to help mend live’s that have been destroyed by drug addiction.
If this letter seems personal to you, it’s because it is. Become a problem solver and not a problem finder. It is easier to put blame on people and policies then it is to solve the problem for which those policies were made.
Respectfully,
Mike Nickel
Ok - James - I am started to agree with you, despite the “your stupid” attitude.
However, who is more likely to lose their temper and beat their child: a mother who is angry, but has a clear head; or a mother who is angry and is high on speed.
I’m not saying all drug users beat their children, I’m saying that drugs alter your mind, which can cause you to do irrational things.
Mike - who are you talking to?
Mr. Blister,
I understand your reasoning, but there is a difference between parents who neglect their children because they are “bad parents” and parents who neglect their children because they started using drug for fun and now they are addicted to them and can no longer think and function “normally”. Don’t you agree?
Responding Radley Balko’s article on Fox News straight Talk. So I guess it would Radley.
Mike,
All I can say is:
RIGHT ON!
I think most people who have to agree with your comment.
I also think the only people who want to legalize drug is users themselves. I have never heard a non-user give me an argument why drugs should be legalized.
I’m all for legalizing drugs, but with several caveats:
1) No public money should be spent on drug rehabilitation, nor on treating ailments related to drug, alcohol or tobacco use.
2) Companies that produce any recreational drugs: alcohol, tobacco, pot, cocaine, etc., should be held harmless from liability for ailments related to the use of their products.
3) Stronger enforcement of DUI laws with stronger penalties. Life in prison for vehicular homicides.
4) Being under the influence of a mind-altering drug cannot be used as a defense in a criminal case.
5) A uniform age where a person is no longer a minor.
6) Stronger enforcement of existing immigration laws (and evaluation of which existing laws are superfluous).
and finally,
7) An aggressive drug education program that essentially tells children that whatever they do, they’ll have to figure out a way to get out of it. The government won’t bail them out.
Unfortunately, this won’t happen. And a well-intentioned but futile, expensive and deadly “war” goes on.
K said: “I also think the only people who want to legalize drug is users themselves. I have never heard a non-user give me an argument why drugs should be legalized.”
Um, okay. I’m not a user and never have been and I believe in decriminalization. There, now you can’t make that claim anymore.
Right On Mr. Blister:
“It’s asanine to legislate personal responsibility. You see thats what it all comes down to… Americans have a serious problem with accepting personal responsibilty for their actions, they seem, rather, to expect the government to take that responsibility for them”.
I personally am against the use of any drugs and I feel that our tax dollars would be better spent on treatment and prevention of use.
Doni said:
” I understand your reasoning, but there is a difference between parents who neglect their children because they are “bad parents” and parents who neglect their children because they started using drug for fun and now they are addicted to them and can no longer think and function “normally”. Don’t you agree?”
No, I dont agree because I do not make a distinction between a parent being bad because they neglect their children and a parent being bad because they are on drugs and can no longer think or function “normally”.
In my view both of these types of parents are the same… they are both bad parents. Neglect, either from stupidity, ignorance, laziness or drug use is neglect plain and simple. You demonize the drug, I demonize the parent. Again this comes down to personal responsibility, or a decided lack there of.
Parents drink and abuse their children.
Parents do drugs and abuse their children.
Parents smoke and abuse their children.
Parents breathe and abuse their children.
Parents abuse their children.
It is an unfortunate fact of life: there are people in this world who, for one reason or another, are not suited to being a parent. Dont put the blame on drugs, it’s the individual and their decisions, not the inanimate object they decided (albeit poorly) to ingest into their system.
Nobody in this screwed up, media driven country wants to take responsibilty for their actions… it’s always someone or something elses fault. Sorry, but thats a cop out.
I am starting to understand the Personal Responsiblity point of view better. But I am still don’t know if drugs should be legal. If drugs were legal, how could they be regulated in such a way to help prevent abuse addiction. Prescription drugs are regulated based on the consumers size, gendor, allergies, etc. To me, the cost of regulated recreational drugs would be too expensive. The poor would still end up buying drugs on the black market.
I have to disagree with T.J. Brown’s last posted message. Once you legalize drugs they will be taxed, in essense becoming public money. Why wouldn’t you want that same public money to go back and help the people who have become addicted to those now legalized drugs. Addiction means they would do just about anything to get hold of that drug. Thus becoming a burden on loved one’s and society in general.
Why shouldn’t being under a mind-altering drug be a legitmate excuse in a criminal case. Would that person who committed the crime not have, if they weren’t under the influence. It is the drug that caused the crime in most case’s. Rational thinking is no longer there when a person is under the influence. Yes the person chose to take the drug but I am sure they never intended on committing the crime, that is in most case’s. I have seen people do things while under the influence that have gone against any kind of rational thinking, and afterward apologize for what they have done and feel guilty for there actions. You have to understand the majority of user’s aren’t bad people, it is the drug and the influence that it has on a person’s life that make’s them do bad things.
I have to disagree with T.J. Brown’s last posted message. Once you legalize drugs they will be taxed, in essense becoming public money. Why wouldn’t you want that same public money to go back and help the people who have become addicted to those now legalized drugs. Addiction means they would do just about anything to get hold of that drug. Thus becoming a burden on loved one’s and society in general.
Why shouldn’t being under a mind-altering drug be a legitmate excuse in a criminal case. Would that person who committed the crime not have, if they weren’t under the influence. It is the drug that caused the crime in most case’s. Rational thinking is no longer there when a person is under the influence. Yes the person chose to take the drug but I am sure they never intended on committing the crime, that is in most case’s. I have seen people do things while under the influence that have gone against any kind of rational thinking, and afterward apologize for what they have done and feel guilty for there actions. You have to understand the majority of user’s aren’t bad people, it is the drug and the influence that it has on a person’s life that make’s them do bad things.
Sorry I posted my message twice.
Hey. Wait a minute. Guess I mis-read this:
“By the way, don’t forget that the President doesn’t spend money, only Congress.”
I thought he was saying the President doesn’t spend money, he spends Congress. I know it doesn’t make much sense. But that’s why it fit so well in the rest of his message.
Mike,
You make some well-reasoned arguments. I don’t think drug legalization is an idea worth exploring because of the tax revenue. Personally, I think we’d be better off if we eliminated “sin” taxes altogether, and simply taxed purchases uniformly and reasonably.
I drink. That’s the extent of my use of mind-altering drugs. But I control my drinking simply because I know of times that I had a few too many and made an ass of myself (some say I do a good job making an ass out of myself sober).
Personal freedom must be accompanied with personal responsibility. Would someone commit a crime in order to gamble/drink/smoke/snort coke if the addiction didn’t exist? Definitely not. But addictions don’t start unless the behavior starts.
I won’t doubt the power of addiction. I know people who can’t fight the demons very well, whether it’s alcohol, tobacco, gambling or illegal drugs.
But without exception (and this is only my personal observation), they are the same people who laughed off the idea of addiction. I hope they can beat their addictions, and they will get whatever help they need from me (within reason), but it remains their fault (not the government’s, not the Colombian cartels’, not terrorists’, not Anheuser-Busch’s, and not Phillip Morris’ fault).
One final thought… I can’t say this is true, because I know no studies on this matter. But wouldn’t one be more likely to seek help for an addiction, overdose or health problem related to alcohol or tobacco than one for an illicit drug?
I don’t know either, but I don’t think legality would hinder someone from seeking help for drug abuse any more than it hindered them from using the drug in the first place.
“Why shouldn’t being under a mind-altering drug be a legitimate excuse in a criminal case.”
I don’t believe that argument can be used effectively now. Even though a person would not know if they would injure somebody while being under the influence of a drug, that person would know the much heightened risk. The person that committed the crime would have made the choice between rational legal behavior and irrational, possibly illegal behavior.
Wow…touchy subject…it is a private matter what you do to your own body…the effect it has on those around you is a subject in public domain. Drink til your liver falls out, but don’t get behind the wheel, try to be a caretaker for children and make sure you have enough money til your liver falls out because I don’t want you to offer me head in the Interstate restroom. It’s a relatively free country, please feel free to kill yourselg however you choose.
I was going to write something, but then I got stoned and forgot. Sorry.
And since many people think the government shouldn’t protect people from themselves - leave Dr. Kevorkian and the poor guy trying to jump from a tall building alone!
Try this on for size:
Tonight, when I get done putting in my ten hours for the day making sure the AS400’s continue their steady decline into oblivion, I will go home. I will take off my shoes and turn on the TV in my apartment. I will order chinese food from mellisas about 6 blocks away. Then, I will open a bottle of Merlot and roll a joint. While I wait for my dinner I will smoke that joint and watch the news. When dinner arrives I will eat the hell out of it and top it off with a glass of wine. I will then watch a bit more TV, go read and then go to bed.
Now, whom have I hurt? Whose rights have I trampled?
I have no children. I have no wife. I really have no family to speak of. I have a great job that pays me tons of cash (well, not litteraly tons… wouldnt that be swell) and places a serious amount of responsibility on my shoulders.
I ask you again, whom have I hurt by relaxing in my home and smoking that joint?
The only thing I can imagine is I’ve hurt your morality. Well, guess what, your morality and mine, they dont jive.
Mr. Blister,
You haven’t hurt anyone. But I think you are the exception, not the rule, for drug users.
Also, do you buy drugs from a dealer, or do you grow it at home? If you buy from a dealer - are you supporting a network of drug trade that is also selling drugs to the local teenagers? Maybe if you had kids, you would think of drug use differently.
No, actually I get mine from a very reliable source who has been a very close friend of mine for many years now. I know for a fact that he does not distribute to children… matter of fact, he hates kids and tries to keep as much room between he and them as possible.
Here’s a flip side to that coin though, Doni. Ask any teenage kid you encounter which is more difficult to obtain: Beer or MJ?
I will be willing to bet that the margin for those able to obtain MJ as opposed to beer will be far greater than you would imagine. Why is that? Because alchohol is regulated, pot isnt. So in effect, if you really want to save the kids, legalize and regulate, tax and use those monies on education and treatment, not prevention and incarceration.
Mr. Blister,
Of course, every part of the country is different. I am from small town, Iowa. Around here is it easier to get beer as a minor than pot, because the drug users around here are very secretive about it.
Drug laws are similar to hate crime laws. In a free society, laws should protect people from those who would do them harm. Hate crime laws go beyond that and try to punish an individual for what he is thinking, not the actual crime. By the same token, a mother who abuses her children should be punished for that action, not for taking drugs. If someone high on drugs robs a store, he should be tried for robbing a store.
Why is this hard for some people to see? Isn’t the slippery slope obvious? Don’t you see the logical extensions of the two above examples? Hate crime laws would be extended to punish hateful thought, and drug laws would extend to tobacco, then alcohol, then french fries, then…
Shotwell
If a person can use insanity as a defense, why couldn’t they use drug addiction as a defense. Mental illness causes one to lose touch - drugs can have similar affects.
If we require children to go to school until they are sixteen - to ensure they have a chance at succeeding in life, why not also try to prevent people from becoming addicted to a highly addictive substance - like street drugs.
If we allow streets drugs to be legal, shouldn’t we also allow adults to buy prescription medication over the counter. It is their personal choice what they put in their own body.
“I also think the only people who want to legalize drug is users themselves. I have never heard a non-user give me an argument why drugs should be legalized.”
“Mr. Blister, You haven’t hurt anyone. But I think you are the exception, not the rule, for drug users.”
I would suggest that the reason that people who use drugs, or merely have in the past, tend to argue for their legalization more vociferously is that they tend to have a better conceptualization of their effects and how they tend to be used. If one believes, as Doni evidently does by the tone of her remark to Mr. Blister, the government line that there is never or almost never any responsible use of recreational drugs, and that one draw on a joint is enough to turn the average responsible citizen into a zombie prowler of the night, then yes, you’ll probably be for their prohibition. Anyone who actually has had much experience with drug use, on the other hand, realizes instantly what total bullshit propaganda it all is. Especially when you start to realize what a large portion of the population does actually regularly use drugs. There are exceptions, of course, mostly former addicts whose regretable experiences give them the convert’s zeal, but they are in the minority.
The point to remember is that not all drugs are created equal, and not all drug use takes you the same place. It’s possible to waste your life on heroin or crack or amphetimines, yes. Possibly even likely. But its also possible not to, and in those instances you probably won’t hear about it. Either way, what business is it of the state’s? And as for marijuana, let’s compare it to ever-so-respecable alcohol for a moment, shall we? I’ve never heard of anyone waking up in an alley covered in blood and shit as a result of doing bong hits, nor have I yet seen any stoned people braking pool cues over each others’ heads.
Have you?
Actually, Evan, I did smoke pot and tried other drugs while in high school and in college. I do not classify marijuana with other drugs. I actually think being high on pot is on the same level as being drunk. I’m not saying that either is ok, though.
I honestly cannot see how one would equate mental illness to drug use.
If one uses insanity as a plea due to a proven record of mental illness, they CANNOT be held responsible for their actions. Does that mean what they have done is acceptable? No. The person should be treated for their problems.
However, should a person choose to use drugs and in the process, either premeditated or by “quirk”, commit a crime they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Insanity due to drug use cannot be accepted as the individual took responsibility for their actions the moment they decided to partake in whatever substance.
You would never accept a plea of insanity from a drunk driver that slaughters a family on his way home, why would you accept it from drug use?
Your argument is simply comparing appples to oranges. It’s bad information and poorly thought out; please avoid rhetoric as it serves no purpose in furthering dialouge.
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